Litening-II Vs Shkval-V

[swift]

Nah, it's not really a competition, the Shkval wins hands down ;)

 

Its just that I can't count how many times I wished the TGP have some kind of helmet mounted sight as interface with the pod. How come the USAF engineers didn't think about it?! :doh:

 

 

 

Shkval: no FLIR.

TGP: no HMS.

[GGTharos]

They did ... but the A-10 isn't getting an HMS as apparently it doesn't need one for now.

[104th_Crunch]

Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System and Sniper Pod.

[Itkovian]

What's the max magnification for the LITENING?

 

Either way, Shval does not have IR camera, and so is at a major disadvantage by default.

 

Itkovian

[StrongHarm]

The technology available now is astounding. Look at the F35. It doesn't even have a HUD, it's all in the helmet. In my opinion the KA50 has a great deal of innovative features and is an awesome helo. Its HMS and Shkval aren't among those features though. These designs are equal to U.S. designs from the early 60s (see phantom). The Apache was being built around the same time as the Shark and featured a HMS that actually had FLIR image overlay in the monocle, as well as decluttered HUD data. In the Apache as well as the Cobra (60s) the trajectory of the gun rounds from the cannon is computed on the fly and slaved to the pilots EYEBALL. Look at something and pull the trigger and it's gone. No lining up your head trying to get close, then checking the screen and slewing it in closer.

 

If the Shkval was slaved to other systems I might agree that it is approaching the functional capabilities of the Litening, but it isn't.. and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In reality the Litening is about 30yrs ahead of the Shkval.

 

I would also speculate that the HMS in the Blackshark was purposely designed with with simplicity and reservation, like so much other Soviet hardware. In kind, the A-10C was not equipped with a HMS as it's simply not consistent with the mission and isn't needed.

[kingneptune117]

I agree. With the F-35, in a certain mode with the Helmet, you can see through the jet in all directions. Hows that for a targeting pod?

[mvsgas]

Nah, it's not really a competition, the Shkval wins hands down ;)

 

Its just that I can't count how many times I wished the TGP have some kind of helmet mounted sight as interface with the pod. How come the USAF engineers didn't think about it?! :doh:

 

 

 

Shkval: no FLIR.

TGP: no HMS.

The Shkval doesn't have a HMS, the KA-50 does.

A-10 does not have HMS, but like other guys stated here, F-18E and F-16C (blk 40 to 52+ depending on version) do have the capability to carry that TGP and do have JHMCS.

 

So, the way I see it;

Shkval= No night capability in MIG-27 and SUt25T, and KA-50 but HMS in the KA-50

LITENING pod= FLIR, Laser designation, long distance target designation and weapons guidance and when paired with the correct aircraft HMS

 

:D the Shkval is obviously superior :smartass:

 

PS

Our engineers do not build aircraft nor TGP

Edited November 9, 2010 by mvsgas

[Mad Dog 7.62]

There was an article in Air Force magazine in June 2008 that said a helmet mounted cueing system for the A-10 was in the works. I don't know if thats still the case.

[sobek]

HMS or not, the Litening II is arguably 30-40 years ahead in signal processing, giving it superior image quality (when saying superior, i actually mean they don't even play in the same ballpark), target aquiring capabilities, interfacing options. There's a lot of stuff that the shkval can do, but the TGP does it so much better, it's hard to speak of the same feature.

[VTJS17_Fire]

And with the Shkval - in the Su-25T for instance, I can only see forward with a few degrees in all directions. The Litening II has much better elevation and azimuth angles, described in the A-10C Flight Manual on page 328.

 

With the A-10C, I don't have to fly toward targets for observing.

 

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

[swift]

SHKVAL

Source

 

I-25I Shkval The Shkval system designed for the Su-25T (and Ka-50) includes a high-resolution TV camera, with a 27° by 36° field of view wide-angle mode for search and a 0.7° , 23x magnification narrow-angle mode for targeting, and a laser target designator (Pritchal) boresighted to the camera.

 

Shkval detects, tracks and identifies fixed and moving ground targets and slow airborne targets. It has manual, software corrected and automatic tracking. It can iteroperate with the navigation system, the radar and thermal imager pod (if fitted).

 

The Shkval system is steerable through 35° to either side of the aircraft, and from 15° above the centerline to 80° below. Its range against tank-sized targets was 8 km.

 

Prichal operates at 1.064 micron wavelength. It uses a 5Hz pulse repetition rate in rangefinding and 10-25Hz in illumination mode. It has greater range than the older Klen-PS and a narrower beam of 1.5 angular minutes. Rangefinding error was no more than ±5m, maximum range 10km, weight was 46kg and maximum power consumption 4.8kW.

 

Shkval detection range was 20-24km for a large landmark like a bridge, 15km for a single building, 10km for a fighter and 6km for a helicopter.

 

Shkval-M is an upgraded version that was intended for the Su-25TM. It can perform automatic search and correlative target ID in scanning mode, cued by the Kopyo-25 radar or the aircraft's onboard navigation system. Shkval-M also finds threats illuminated by ground based designators, and can be used to designate targets for engagement by Krasnopol laser guided artillery shells.

 

LITENING II AT

Military Avionics Systems. Ian Moir, Allan Seabridge.

[Runibl]

Found this:

 

July 19/10: Raytheon announces a $12.6 million USAF contract for Phase 1 integration and qualification of the Helmet Mounted Integrated Targeting (HMIT) system for USAF and Air National Guard A-10C and F-16C Block 30/32 aircraft. Raytheon Technical Services Company LLC (RTSC), the prime contractor, is teamed with Gentex Corp. in Simpson, PA to produce the system, based on Gentex’s Visionix Scorpion™ Helmet Mounted Cueing System.

 

HMIT will be a night-vision compatible helmet-mounted display that shows crucial information in high-resolution color imagery directly in the pilot’s field of vision. The color imagery is a step forward, and information displayed will include weapons-cueing, targeting and situational data from on-board and remote sensors. Like other HMDs, the system will track helmet movement to display accurate imagery, regardless of the direction the pilot’s head is turned. The program includes 5 one-year production options, with a potential total value up to $50 million.

[VTJS17_Fire]

LITENING II AT

 

 

That are two different versions!

The Litening AT is the newest version of the Litening family. The Litening II is an older version.

 

 

produced by Northrop Grumman:

LITENING II

LITENING III

LITENING ER

LITENING AT

LITENING G4

 

 

The original Litening pod was designed in Israel.

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

[Boberro]

Shkval is currently really an ancient device. Its pictures quality is BAD and it is so clumsy...

Anyway it has sexy brown CRT monitor :D, plus it has quite nice zoom level. That all advantages of that device.

[WarriorX]

No flir makes this one an easy win for the Litening IMHO. I used to stress in BS on late afternoon mission starts when the light was fading fast and I knew the Shkval was quickly going to be useless without a SU-25 coming by and dropping Illum Flares.

[RIPTIDE]

Shkval is currently really an ancient device. Its pictures quality is BAD and it is so clumsy...

Anyway it has sexy brown CRT monitor :D, plus it has quite nice zoom level. That all advantages of that device.

Bob. You must curse at yourself every minute of the hours that you fly that evil Russian Su-25 that you love/hate. :D

 

PS: Where's the sig gone? I miss it. :cry:

[Boberro]

Bob. You must curse at yourself every minute of the hours that you fly that evil Russian Su-25 that you love/hate. :D

 

Flying T-Toad is the coolest thing which can be used in LO :P Frogs and their TVs are my favs, but in real life Shkval picture is much much worse than what we have in BS\LO by the way (compared to available photos and videos).

 

PS: Where's the sig gone? I miss it. :cry:

 

Under renovation :D

Edited November 9, 2010 by Boberro

[power5]

Not sure I see much of a reason for HMS in the A10. If you are close enough to be able to see your target and accurately put the HMS on it, you need to be on the trigger, not trying to get a lock. If you are at angels 15 then the HMS is not very accurate and you can use the HUD slew to lock the TGP to the target area. The gun does not move so slaving the HMS and the gun does not work.

 

Mav needs a new seeker head that is for sure. Or give me a laser guided Mav so I can designate with the TGP and launch a Mav without needing to get another 5km closer before getting lucky enough for the seeker to lock the target I wanted.

[WarriorX]

Apparently your wish is Raytheon's command...http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Raytheon_Laser_Guided_Maverick_On_Track_999.html

[bogusheadbox]

Y'all are crazy.

 

THe schkval wins hands down...... And i can prove it !!!

 

Just let me figure out a way to fit the mercury pod to the KA - 50 First:thumbup:

:crazy:

 

 

(can anyone photoshop that for me, i would love to see what it looks like!)

[Tracer2k]

And with the Shkval - in the Su-25T for instance, I can only see forward with a few degrees in all directions. The Litening II has much better elevation and azimuth angles, described in the A-10C Flight Manual on page 328.

 

With the A-10C, I don't have to fly toward targets for observing.

 

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

 

this alone is so big advantage which in my opinion is enough to beat the shkval.

[Tracer2k]

That are two different versions!

The Litening AT is the newest version of the Litening family. The Litening II is an older version.

 

 

produced by Northrop Grumman:

LITENING II

LITENING III

LITENING ER

LITENING AT

LITENING G4

 

 

The original Litening pod was designed in Israel.

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

 

wow.. Litening AT is cheap.. only 2mil per unit.. :megalol:

 

/sarcasm off

[Boberro]

Y'all are crazy.

 

THe schkval wins hands down...... And i can prove it !!!

 

Just let me figure out a way to fit the mercury pod to the KA - 50 First:thumbup:

:crazy:

 

 

(can anyone photoshop that for me, i would love to see what it looks like!)

 

I believe it looked something like that?

 

[bogusheadbox]

Nice pic !!

[FlandersRevenge]

Coming to it, the Shkval is really a glorified AGM-65K seeker.