Ugh, rockets...

[Temphage]

Alright, I outright suck with these things. Maybe everyone sucks a little, but goddamn this is difficult.

 

I'm running some training mission I downloaded from somewhere here that has several targets set up in rows for rocket practice. Unfortunately even against some dinky trucks, 21 MK5 HE rockets later *maybe* I've killed three?

 

One thing I find myself wondering is what is the convergence range of the rockets, if there even is one? Firing them in 'pairs' seems like the dumbest thing ever since they're guaranteed to land to the sides of targets... the best I've managed is setting them to single-fire and launching them off one pylon at a time. Ripple fire doesn't get me the results I want, and I don't think I've ever managed to do anything to a tank with the Mk5 "anti-tank" rockets...

 

Tips here? The CCIP might as well not exist for how accurate it is :/

Edited March 30, 2011 by Temphage

[S77th-konkussion]

I set the profile to RPL SGL QTY: 3 I'm not sure why.... they are OK for vehicles, but I would agree that one would expect a little more fragmentation, etc.

 

It was recently pointed out to me that damaged vehicles have some modeled behavior, but it would not be visually obvious.

 

 

The following is an intentional hint to ED- disguised as innocent discussion. Shhh. :

 

 

Lets say- if you engaged a BMP with an GBU12. 20-30 meters behind him Vladmir is driving the fuel truck. One hand on the wheel, one hand on a 1/5 of Stolichnaya. The force of the explosion in such a close proximity would have quite a detrimental effect on Vlad, his truck, and his drink.. Could be busted out windows. Literally blowing it off the road- as in flying through the air or rolling over several times. Chunks of searing hot shrapnel could easily cause the truck to explode itself, obviously.

 

But do this exact thing in DCS- that fuel truck will scatter off the road- but that's about it. Just the limitations of what they have right now. Might be too complex to code, might simply not have the time needed..

Edited March 30, 2011 by S77th-konkussion

[PhiXX]

Rockets are mainly used as relatively inaccurate artillery. Sniping with them wont work very good, it's better to double ripple 3 or 4 at the same time against groups of light armor. It's also better to ripple them while flying at a steep angle so they wont spread out as much.

Practice is all behind it ;)

[Temphage]

I just don't find them economical at all.

 

The *only* advantage to rockets seems to be weight. To that end, I really can't find much of a reason unless I'm seriously over-loaded to take, say, 21 rockets over 3 Mk-82s, especially since one Mk-82 will destroy a BMP, as well as devastate anything else in the area, whereas it'd probably take all 21 FFARs to reliably kill one. Even still, the A-10 does have the ability to carry *impressive* amounts of ordinance so it's not like weight should ever be too huge an obstacle to overcome.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Temphage

[S77th-konkussion]

The damage they cause in real life is a lot more than what you can see in DCS.. You won't see the bashed in metal from shrapnel, busted windows, etc.. Vehicles on fire- but not totally immobile.. Vehicles immobile- but not on fire.. ED can't model the hundreds of damage variables that a grenade with it's azz on fire can potentially cause.

[636_Castle]

 

Imagine if those weren't training rounds. I never use rockets unless there's one or two soldiers that somehow didn't go down after Mk-82s landed near them. Even with live warheads in DCS, they seem to be less effective than training rounds. :noexpression:

Edited March 31, 2011 by 636_Castle

[Bvoiash]

I rarely use rockets as well for the reasons that have been mentioned.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Bvoiash

[159th_Viper]

Alright, I outright suck with these things. Maybe everyone sucks a little, but goddamn this is difficult.

.........

Tips here? The CCIP might as well not exist for how accurate it is :/

 

Previous post of mine - download and watch the track at the end of the post:

 

 

 

As said, they're basically a grenade with a booster attached: Effectiveness depends largely on the technique of throwing (or bowling as my Staff Sergeant used to say) the said grenade.

 

Herewith a suggestion: By no means authoritative mind you - merely one technique that works for me.

 

Load-Out: 2 x LAU-68*3

 

DSMS: RPL Pairs/RPL QTY 4

 

 

 

 

Salvo of 4 rockets virtually guarantees a 100% success rate against all soft-skinned targets. Dependant on range, I find that a 30-degree dive angle is best. Shallower with reduced range to target works too as illustrated by the second pass in the track.

 

In any event, herewith track illustrating the above: 5 - Salvo attack with 5 targets destroyed.

 

 

 

 

 

Track: [ATTACH]48960[/ATTACH]

[tjhowse]

I don't mean to tell you how to suck eggs, but are you using PAC-1 to help with the clustering of your rockets? It does help significantly.

 

P.S. Same temphage from NS forums?

[Temphage]

I use PAC-1 sometimes, but PAC just keeps the reticule on target, which is not the problem. Even with the reticule on target they land, firing from ranges close enough to give GCAS a heart attack, all over the damn place.

 

I'm just curious as to how realistic this (in)accuracy really is. They're unguided rockets so I shouldn't expect miracles, but at the same time, right now they're so poor as to be useless and I highly doubt anyone would put something that ridiculous on an aircraft.

[S77th-konkussion]

Where do you "use" PAC 1 ? Meaning - where are these settings?

[WarriorX]

Where do you "use" PAC 1 ? Meaning - where are these settings?

 

I think he means engaging PAC stabilization via the first trigger detent press, just like you do for a GAU 8 run.

[CAT_101st]

Rockets are mainly used as relatively inaccurate artillery. Sniping with them wont work very good, it's better to double ripple 3 or 4 at the same time against groups of light armor. It's also better to ripple them while flying at a steep angle so they wont spread out as much.

Practice is all behind it ;)

 

I agree with this. I find that the FFAR's are more of an area weapon aginst light truck's and groops of troop's. I use a 20* dive when using the FFAR and a few other weapons. I find that a 10* -20* dive workes well for all CCIP weapon dillevery.

[159th_Viper]

....They're unguided rockets so I shouldn't expect miracles, but at the same time, right now they're so poor as to be useless and I highly doubt anyone would put something that ridiculous on an aircraft.

 

Now do not go blaming your shortcomings on the rockets ;)

 

Have you even watched the track I linked you to?

[GGTharos]

1:40. I'd say it's just your expectations that are ridiculous here - just a little ribbing ;) There's a reason for the development of laser-guided FFAR's and this is it.

 

 

 

I'm just curious as to how realistic this (in)accuracy really is. They're unguided rockets so I shouldn't expect miracles, but at the same time, right now they're so poor as to be useless and I highly doubt anyone would put something that ridiculous on an aircraft.

[S77th-konkussion]

Cobra- talk about standing the test of time.. Bad ass lawnmower to this day..

 

at 2:15- Was that a '114 with that squirreley flight trajectory? Love that.. reminds me of rabid Tasmanian devil..

 

 

edit-- hmm. maybe it was a TOW looking at the later shots... with that clearly visible sideways exhaust plume... yep it even says TOW on the right side..

Edited March 31, 2011 by S77th-konkussion

[Temphage]

Have you even watched the track I linked you to?

 

According to the track you expended 20 rockets and destroyed one truck.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Temphage

[159th_Viper]

According to the track you expended 20 missiles and destroyed one truck.

 

Then the track replayed incorrectly.

 

Engagement as follows:

 

1st Pass: 3 destroyed

 

2nd Pass: 2 destroyed

 

20 Rockets - 5 vehicles destroyed as stipulated in post.

 

I reiterate: Rockets work 100% as they should. You need to practice :)

[Temphage]

You need to practice :)

 

You're attacking a tightly spaced group of trucks arranged in a circular pattern, which is both the absolute most ideal for rocket accuracy and yet the most laughably improbable arrangement of hostiles. That isn't proof that rockets are useful, that's a staged, best-case setup to prove a point on a forum.

 

How about the Mk5s then? What possible use does an anti-tank rocket that *must* hit its target to be effective have on the A-10, which is equipped with a 30mm DU-spitting monster which is 100x more accurate with far more range?

 

Without a doubt the rockets are questionable in-game mostly because our selection sucks. There exist two real-life Hydra rockets that we could make far more use of, yet don't have: The M261, which has 9 submunitions and thus would compensate for their shitty accuracy admirably, and the M229, which carries twice the explosive filler of the M151, again, a far more useful rocket especially in something like the A-10 which doesn't have to luxury of close-up stationary engagement like a helicopter does. There's no reason to not have these rockets available to us, especially as the extra weight of the M229 is a complete non-issue on this weapon platform.

 

PS: Smiley faces don't stop you from coming across as a dick. :).

Edited March 31, 2011 by Temphage

[MTFDarkEagle]

Sorry to say this, but rocket employement is as it should be. They are quite effective in certain situations, and pretty accurate.

 

And I must agree with Viper: practice, practice, practice :)

[PhiXX]

How about the Mk5s then? What possible use does an anti-tank rocket that *must* hit its target to be effective have on the A-10, which is equipped with a 30mm DU-spitting monster which is 100x more accurate with far more range?

Getting lucky. With just an HE warhead you will never penetrate armor. In RL a lot of flying metal also means a high probability of damage on both equipment and soldiers. The shaped charge in the mk5 does only work when hitting the vehicle directly though.

[shagrat]

M156 WP Marker or M257, M278 Illum...think about it.

 

Nobody mentioned yet, so I will now.

 

There are WP White Smoke marker rockets available. You can use them to mark targets. I guess in Multi-Player this may come in handy... "I marked the tanks with Willi Petes" - "I see them 150 west to the white smoke" - "Roger that!"

 

At least I read in "A-10s over Kosovo" they often carried WPs for this purpose.

 

The Illuminations may come in handy at night, especially the IR ones ( M278 ).

 

One launcher with 7 WP markers or Illums may be a good weight vs. use trade off.

 

P.S.: against infantry I would like to have the ATAF/ M255 (with flechette), and the MPSM variant ( M261 ) would be nice as well, although I guess the later were not used on an A-10 yet :sly:

[Aries]

CCIP is innacurate... But with CCRP and a well placed TGP SPI one can do miracles with single FFAR rocket attacks... :smartass: