coolts Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I blame Wags. Ever since his ‘toss bombing’ video I have been a man possessed/obsessed. I have left craters over half of southern Georgia, abandoned wingmen mid mission, and wasted the equivalent of a small countries arsenal in my pursuit of the perfect loft angle, speed and most importantly, (and something Mr Wagner forgot to include in his instructional clip), how the hell to get out of there with your arse intact! Tonight I did it. After scattering broken A-10’s all over the SP campaigns, I knocked up a very simple practice mission for perfecting this arcane and insanely addictive art form. (Attached if anyone’s interested). How can I go back to JDAMS now? LGB’s are just so......mechanical I am now an artist of angles! :DPractice array.miz [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] i7 9700k | 32gb DDR4 | Geforce 2080ti | TrackIR 5 | Rift S | HOTAS WARTHOG | CH PRO Pedals
jeffyd123 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 oh geez... thought this one was going somewhere else LOL i7 8700K @ 4.4Ghz, 16G 3200 RAM, Nvidia 1080Ti, T16000 HOTAS, TIR5, 75" DLP Monitor
Insanatrix Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I was expecting this to be a post from Panzertard :smartass:
BiPod Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Well, I'm glad you like it. I actually gave up after our conversation with Ice because I couldn't find a use for it. After trying different enemy defences (AAA and SAMs) I just couldn't find a situation where tossing was better than level bombing, at any altitude, followed by a sharp turn. I didn't try MANPADS and I suspect there may be some advantage there. Have you found an advantage besides the good fun? Maybe my tossing just sucks:D. I've downloaded your .miz, thanks. Will check it out later. May you always toss in good health, BiPod.
StrongHarm Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Panzertard It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
CrashEd Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) You'll go blind ;) Definite candidate for thread title of the year award :D Glad you managed to master it. I can do it, but my success rate is still a bit hit and miss. Any tips? Edited April 13, 2011 by CrashEd
coolts Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) <BiPod> It’s a technique that is only really relevant when you absolutely have to stay low. We are talking <500ft AGL here. When avoiding SAMS using terrain masking for instance, when high alt level bombing is off the menu. In such situations you would either use high drag Mk-82AIR or toss bombing. It is just another tool in your kit bag really. It’s all about options. The advantage of the latter, (sorry, I’ve said ‘toss’ too many times in this thread ;)), is that you are not dangling your wedding tackle over the enemy after delivery. In fact, ‘loft bombing’ is far more useful than retarded bombs IMO if we aren’t going after runways, (and we aren’t). This assumes you have cleared the target area of AAA/SAM threats!. Toss bombing is not a SEAD technique!! Use your mavs for that if you have no cover flights. <Crash> Watching Ice recreate scenes from ‘Apocalypse Now’, with happy abandon in our last MP flight whilst I was fannying about with mavericks made me think “I wanna do that”. My main problems were / are; 1. The bloody “INVALID FUZING” HUD warning that I now avoid by setting my HOF to 300ft (tighter groupings for more armour kills IMO), setting HUD reference to DTS and making my approach slightly higher than 300ft. (My own fuzzy logic solution might not be the right one). 2. Too many lines intersecting in the HUD! I can handle the SPI ‘tadpole’ and the bomb fall line, but the ‘azimuth steering’ line, is just one line to many. It looks like I am playing ‘Tempest’ on the Atari during a bomb run with all those lines intersecting! I now look at the SPI and bomb reticule and the bloody azimuth line is just there to hold the release queue as far as I care. CBU’s aint a precision instrument after all and I am using CCRP, not CCIP. Once you sort the former and zone out the latter, you can get some good hits and avoid enemy fire most of the time, and looking over your shoulder in a high G turn to see massive explosions followed by multiple secondary’s has to go down as one of the defining experiences in this sim. There is one fundamental area where Ice and I disagree and that is the initial popup ‘pull’. He advocates a linear climb to delivery for more predictable results whereas I start a 2-3 g pull in the vertical and as soon as I hear the ‘thunk’, I flip 90-130 degrees over and just keep on pulling G’s until I am heading away from target, low, and masked again and avoiding the aim of the surviving gunners. Don’t stop pulling IMO. You want to get the hell out of the hot area asap and not provide an easy or predictable target. Happy huntin’ :pilotfly: Edited April 13, 2011 by coolts [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] i7 9700k | 32gb DDR4 | Geforce 2080ti | TrackIR 5 | Rift S | HOTAS WARTHOG | CH PRO Pedals
SFJackBauer Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Happy tossin’ :pilotfly: Fixed for ya. I wonder why tossing JDAMs doesnt work in sim? Its a perfectly viable tactic in real life, isn't it?
CrashEd Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Don’t stop pulling IMO. Roger that :D I'm gonna give this some more practice if I ever get a minute this week :disgust:
PhoenixBvo Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) I wonder why tossing JDAMs doesnt work in sim? Its a perfectly viable tactic in real life, isn't it? In one word: speed. Or rather the lack thereof in the A-10. F-16s for example use loft attacks with JDAMs to increase standoff range while using terrain masking, but with the A-10 you just can't give the bomb a sufficiently large amount of kinetic energy for it to be a valuable technique. I suspect that this ability hasn't been implemented in the avionics, because it just isn't practical. EDIT: This because it is a guided munition which needs some ten seconds of flight time to accurately correct its path onto the target (Recommend minimum drop alt for level bombing is ~10.000ft AGL). The CBU tossing, which coolts is so enthousiastic about (haven't had very positive results myself yet :(), requires very accurate flying, but no guidance during bomb flight. Thus release speed is not that critical for accuracy. It still is though for keeping your distance to the enemies fangs, which has been the main reason for my limited success... Edited April 13, 2011 by PhoenixBvo [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
uri_ba Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 CBU105s at "tossable". problem is that the pickle is very long and the window is sometime too small after the pull up. you need to watch for the carrot to cross the 9 oclock going up to the 12. that's the pull cue. once the MAN release shows up only then you can start pressing the pickle. I wonder in in RL pickle pressed before you reach the basket as accepted once inside it. Creator of Hound ELINT script My pit building blog Few DIY projects on Github: DIY Cougar throttle Standalone USB controller | DIY FCC3 Standalone USB Controller
pyates2104 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1123515#post1123515 I suggested tossing a while back but was shot down by a bunch of people. Seems it's who you are and not what you no in this forum.....
PhoenixBvo Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1123515#post1123515 I suggested tossing a while back but was shot down by a bunch of people. Seems it's who you are and not what you no in this forum..... Uhmm, perhaps it rather depends on the sort of munition you propose (see my previous post). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
nomdeplume Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 If by "shot down" you mean "were told the A-10 is too slow to toss-bomb effectively" then yes... I think the people in this thread are practicing the technique for fun and because they're on a computer and not actually lobbing costly explody things across battlefields where missing your target means your friends get killed. I mean, I can easily take out even the toughest SAMs with the GAU-8 if I build a mission where hundreds of A-10s fly into the SAM's engagement radius at the same time - there's no way it can shoot them all down! Doesn't mean it's a viable tactic! Basically, yes you can toss bombs even in an A-10, but if you're considering doing it, there's probably a better solution to the problem you're facing. Whether or not you use the 'better' solution is dependent on what you find enjoyable. Sometimes doing tactically unsound things is fun.
PhoenixBvo Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Well, in the case of the CBU-87/97 I can actually imagine it to be a viable tactic in RL. I mean, you don't deploy cluster munitions danger close or anywhere in the remote vicinity of friendlies anyway. Secondly, they're comparitively cheap weapons and thirdly area effect anyway, so no pinpoint accuracy is required. That, plus presenting a difficult-to-hit target to the enemy, all points in the direction of tossing in this case. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
coolts Posted April 13, 2011 Author Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) Well, in the case of the CBU-87/97 I can actually imagine it to be a viable tactic in RL. Thats all I use it for. People who try it with Mk-82's against IADS are either Jedi on their day off or should be in padded cells for their / our protection :smilewink: If there are SAM/AAA in the target vicinity then don't expose yourself. It is simply a really good way to get area effect weapons onto enemy units when you have to stay really low to avoid detection/death. And its really cool. Edited April 13, 2011 by coolts [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] i7 9700k | 32gb DDR4 | Geforce 2080ti | TrackIR 5 | Rift S | HOTAS WARTHOG | CH PRO Pedals
Nascar Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 You'll go blind ;) Definite candidate for thread title of the year award :D Glad you managed to master it. I can do it, but my success rate is still a bit hit and miss. Any tips? I toss so much I'm starting to chaff.....anyone..anyone..sorry Thermaltake Core P90 Tempered Glass//Thermaltake iRGB Plus 1200W//GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS MASTER LGA 1151//9800x3d//Thermaltake CL420 Copper Radiator//Thermaltake W4 Plus//Jungle Leopard Prism 140mm//Samsung 1TB 970 EVO NVMe M2//SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 500GB //G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series//Asrock 7900xt//Logitech G940//Virpil MT50 Throttle//MFG Crosswind rudder pedals//Geko GSeat//Gametrix Jetseat//Reverb G2//Viril VFX//Razer Nari Ultimate
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