Zeus could be more deadly

[MBot]

However, due to the entry into Russian/Soviet service of SA-8, SA-13, SA-15, SA-14/16/18, SA-19 (2S6), SA-11, the tactic of trying to use the A-10's gun to bust Russian (actually Russian) tanks is at least two decades obsolete, probably three.

 

I agree that the newer generation systems like SA-15 and SA-19, if employed in the context of a well equiped, supported and lead meachanized army, make the A-10 obsolete. They were fielded very much with the A-10 as a primary target in mind. A-10A or A-10C does not make much of a difference here. I can understand the desire at the close of the Cold War to retire the A-10, the threat environment was about to change against it. Fortunately for the A-10 the Cold War ended and it found new tasks in less dangerous theaters.

 

I do think though that the A-10 was survivable against the previous generation of systems like the Shilka, SA-8 and SA-13. The SA-8 and other contemporary radar systems weak point was reaction time. The SA-8 needs a good minute to engage a detected target. The SA-13, as the MANPADS', has a better reaction time, but lacking radar their weakness is timely target detection and acquisition. Therfore NOE flight was an adequate protection against this generation of defenses. Of course losses would have been huge anyway, but that was is simply unavoidable.

[-Ice]

Well, how you play is up to you. Personally, I usually play with the objective of almost never being shot down but still doing my mission- the priority of a real pilot, I would believe. If your priorities are to almost never die, then you will end up flying at 25K or higher if the situation calls for it- and it very often does. I usually complete a combat mission without even being shot at a single time. This is a plus, but I can see how people who like excitement and evading missiles see it as a minus. Hint: real pilots do not like evading missiles :D

 

I'm sure that I don't like being shot at either, but I usually only go high enough to evade them. I usually avoid SAM sites and AAAs can be dealt with from 8-10k feet. Like I said, with the speed the Hog has, I can have dinner and a nap before it reaches 25k, so I have never gone that high :D

[Buzpilot]

Well, you want facts? It's a fact that the A-10 has never faced lots of frontline, modern Russian equipment. All we have is simulations of what would happen. The simulations don't look too good for a low flying A-10.

 

A-10 will probably never face modern SAM's, SEAD will be taken care of with a lot better/faster planes, but A-10 will be needed/useful for many years, to mop up the rest:smilewink:

[-Ice]

Yep, the A-10 is not an all-around performer. It was built for a purpose, and does it well. Other roles (SEAD, CAP) go to other aircraft.

[sorcer3r]

 

after a mission was accomplished, i had some ammo left.... was surprised that the shilka shot very late.

maybe cause it was just on average skill?

Edited April 28, 2011 by sorcer3r

[Napa]

Has anyone in these forums flown and fought against a REAL shilka before?

[Speed]

A-10 will probably never face modern SAM's, SEAD will be taken care of with a lot better/faster planes, but A-10 will be needed/useful for many years, to mop up the rest:smilewink:

 

In fact, I hope the USAF sees the wisdom of acquiring alot more cheap gunships. If you ask an infantry soldier a few years down the road what he wants giving him CAS in most realistic war scenarios, he's not going to want a $100 million+ (isn't it up to $120 million now?) F-35, he's gonna want an AC-130, Apache, A-10, etc.

 

The problem is we fly a lot missions where we do in fact have alot of 2S6s, SA-15s, SA-13s, etc. It makes things more interesting.

 

Alot of missions feature targets you are given the coordinates to. In this case, I really can't see any point at all to flying low, unless you want to use the gun. Even if that is the case, it's still a lot smarter and safer to come in high and recon the area first for threats before you come barrelling in on your gun run.

 

A few legitimate reasons to fly low (low being defined as less than about 15000 feet) are:

 

-Mission requiring you to visually search large areas

-Some kind of nasty high altitude SAM threat

-No real threats to speak of down there, so what the hell, why not

-Cloud deck

-Unusual mission requirement (as in the mission I created where you had to avoid being detected, preserving the element of surprise, by staying out of line of sight of enemy radars)

 

Oh and it only takes like 15 minutes to get to 22 thousand feet with an OVERLOADED (more than 100% max takeoff weight), high drag A-10. If someone can do "dinner and a nap" in the time it takes to get to 25K feet, then either they

a) Eat and sleep at a rate 10X than normal human beings

b) Are excessively exaggerating

c) Don't know how to climb the jet correctly

 

Actually I've noticed alot of people do in fact have problems flying the aircraft at high altitudes. I think they turn around on targets too quickly for their next run, turn too hard and bleed all their airspeed (you pretty much gotta keep your turns to not much more than 1.5gs), try to climb too quickly (you don't want your airspeed below like 160 in the climb is my experience)... stuff like that.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Speed

[Dent21]

The Shilka's are deadly enough as they are, just treat them with respect.

 

Lately, I use the gun also on these sawing machines , using the Mavericks 1st on the mobile Sams ( speed and stand off , freedom to move out of Dodge ) , then picking the Shilka's after this ..... keeps you on your toes.

 

Always something to dodge , bank and yank , God , i love this sim!

[Fish]

........................ usually just barely enough time to get a killing burst squeezed off then jink like hell and hopefully watch the tracers whiz past . . . quite the thrill!

 

Thats the time you should not just jink like hell. Take control of the situation. Put it just behind you 3 or 9 o clock, and keep you eyeball on it. When you see the burst, watch and push or pull on the stick to keep 'ahead of it. Remember, he's trying to 'lead' you using you current flight path. You got to make sure you don't end up where he's anticipating you will be. Also take into account the 'dispersion of the burst.

 

For me that's safer than turning and closing my eyes hoping for the best. If you are up against more than one it gets a little more complicated though.

[213]

lol @ seeing the flash of a shilka from more than a thousand feet off the ground

[dunadan]

Thats the time you should not just jink like hell. Take control of the situation. Put it just behind you 3 or 9 o clock, and keep you eyeball on it. When you see the burst, watch and push or pull on the stick to keep 'ahead of it. Remember, he's trying to 'lead' you using you current flight path. You got to make sure you don't end up where he's anticipating you will be. Also take into account the 'dispersion of the burst.

 

For me that's safer than turning and closing my eyes hoping for the best. If you are up against more than one it gets a little more complicated though.

 

 

If I am not engaging it, that is exactly what I do . . . in my original post I was saying specifically when I decide to engage the Shilka with the GAU. Since I already have my pointy end pointed towards him, and we usually have the bead on each other, we both end up shooting. Its just easier for me to get out of the way of the shots (if I'm quick enough)!

 

Would I do this if it were 'for real'? No way in hell unless I was forced to, however since in this case death can easily be cured by a reload, it is great fun to have some quick draw MgGraw wild west type shootouts once in a while.

 

I know, shame on me for injecting some unrealistic 'fun' into a SERIOUS STUDY SIM! :smilewink:

[Bucic]

In BS I often managed to toss a bean from 2+ km away at Shilka without it even trying to engage me. Bang! .... waiting for the single bean to get to te target.... Bang! ....... And so on. Was it some error in BS AI that has been fixed for Warthog?

[159th_Viper]

....to toss a bean....

 

Lol - great description :D

 

Here's me tossing thirty beans at a Shilka.........

 

udkWmSejrEw

[-Ice]

Oh and it only takes like 15 minutes to get to 22 thousand feet with an OVERLOADED (more than 100% max takeoff weight), high drag A-10. If someone can do "dinner and a nap" in the time it takes to get to 25K feet, then either they

a) Eat and sleep at a rate 10X than normal human beings

b) Are excessively exaggerating

c) Don't know how to climb the jet correctly.

 

Hmmm... you may be quite right. Either that, or they might be just having a bit of fun. What do you think? :music_whistling:

 

Seriously though, I think I'm just having too much fun being in the "danger zone." Sure, I can play it safe, climb to altitude, launch all ordnance without having to go defensive, and come home to a nice hot dinner. I know I would do so 100% of the time if I were doing this for real. But, as dunadan said, the consequences of my actions total to about 6 minutes of reload and reset time so why not have a bit of fun and get the blood pressure up and the heart racing?

[Soul]

Played the single player surrounded mission for the first time this afternoon. The shilka's didn't pose much of a problem for me, the surprise at the end definitely made my wing man jettison his stores and eventually eject. And made me limp home on one engine. Mission complete tho! :thumbup:

[SmokeyTheLung]

Lol - great description :D

 

Here's me tossing thirty beans at a Shilka.........

 

udkWmSejrEw

 

Modded gun sound? or am I nuts...

[Bucic]

Lol - great description :D

 

Here's me tossing thirty beans at a Shilka.........

I hope I didn't unknowingly step onto sexual sentences ground again :D

 

In my case it really resembled tossing the rounds. Something like operating an anti-materiel sniper rifle.

[Nu-NRG]

Where fighters are jaguars that chase down their prey and hamstring them, the A-10 is a Nile Croc. It won't chase you down, but God help you if it decides to slowly stalk you.

 

This made me laugh for days! Still does!