Air Refueling - Any tips?

[bluepilot76]

Well, Inspired by all your valiant efforts I decided it was time to get back in the Hog, and do a bit of AAR practice (prob first time since 1109 or even 11 0 8. Result: I cant do it!

 

Why? 1) all the comms have gone to hell! No reply on AM, but stangely getting a reply on UHF (text only at times). If I can get through he puts the boom down, but as I creep into position the crazy in the plane shouts "BREAKOFF! BREAKOFF!"

The one time I got on the boom, all of a sudden someone said "Enfield heading home" or similar and a tthat exact moment the tanker hurtled into a 330 knot spiral dive for Batumi. Wierdness.

Seems like Ive got some learning to do. I am going to sit quietly in the back of the class and keep my gob shut for once.

[Fakum]

@ ncimike3,,, I havnt tried to refuel since last post but just went in real quick to try your mission,,, just wanted you to know that your radio to contact the tanker is set to 251 UHF, not 150 VHFAM as stated in the briefing,,, but thanks for the mission.

 

@ bluepilot76,, thanks for the feedback,, im actually finding that that height, but perhaps a tad lower works for me,, Im hooking up much better. I was way too low before apparently,,, but Im still practicing

[Supersheep]

I made some progress here.

Now I am able to get on the boom without that KC making a breakaway call, in one flight 18 times in half an hour.

Unfortunately, that means that I disconnect just as often.

I guess I fail to judge if I am too far forward/aft and/or up/down, so I correct wrong.

 

 

What really helped me was the tip to move the throttle a bit to adjust the speed, but pull it back in a matter of seconds.

Only when I notice that I keep correcting in the same direction (faster/slower) multilple times, I finally adjust the throttle accordingly.

 

I still find it difficult to make the A10 go a foot or two forward (or aft) instead of "a foot per second", though.

 

 

 

Different issue:

I cannot get the tanker to orbit at a defined speed and altitude.

While I can reuel while it is moving from A to B, that plane gets slower and slower until I think the tanker stalls every second now. I once saw 165 knots indicated (no wind).

 

I set up a tanker, give it the task "tanker", create a waypoint for it and then command it to orbit at 18000 with 230 knots. Hesimply ignores it.

 

 

 

Supersheep

[Fakum]

Glad to hear of your progress,,,, I walked away from this sim last week,,, I put so so many hours into training and I was really frustrated with the AA refueling,,, I actually told my wife I quit! I just couldnt put 2-3 hours a night into this because I noticed if I am away for days at a time,, I start to get rusty real quick!

 

I actually jumped back in last night for the heck of it,,, I went right at refueling,,, I hooked up quite a bit, but could not sustain more than probably 5-8 seconds,, but it was a real improvement! Im glad you posted up because I did something last night that I had not really applied,, and that was a quick small throttle up then pull it back again,,, man,,, that really made a difference! I find you have to be patient though,, and it worked much better.

 

Oddly though,, I still get the 'BreakAway" on my approach, but I'm hooking up if I ignore it,,, not sure why I'm getting that notice,, Im sure its my elevation up Hi or Low,,, but hey,,,,

 

Good luck

[Supersheep]

When I was getting those breakaways, I was too high.

I now approach the tanker with my TVV a very little below the end of the boom. When I am within 10 feet (cannot really tell) I put the TVV on the end of the boom and slowly dvance.

 

When the operator pulls the boom up, I continue on that path "to where the end was before" and do not follow the boom.

Generally, I think you are too high and the tanker gets paranoid when you are too fast, too. Exactly my mistakes :)

 

 

 

I am clocking up some time on AAR and, ehm, it slowly gets better.

Supersheep

[Fakum]

Hmmm,,, will try the TVV approach and see how I do,,, thanks

[GGTharos]

Try practicing with the hud completely dimmed out then. You don't need the TVV. All you need is visual references to the tanker.

 

When I was getting those breakaways, I was too high.

I now approach the tanker with my TVV a very little below the end of the boom. When I am within 10 feet (cannot really tell) I put the TVV on the end of the boom and slowly dvance.

 

When the operator pulls the boom up, I continue on that path "to where the end was before" and do not follow the boom.

Generally, I think you are too high and the tanker gets paranoid when you are too fast, too. Exactly my mistakes :)

 

 

 

I am clocking up some time on AAR and, ehm, it slowly gets better.

Supersheep

[Fakum]

Yeah,, I have actually been ignoring the hud and focusing on the tanker fusalage as reference,,, was willing to try a different approach though,,, thanks for the suggestion though,,, always helps to entertain other options

[Laidback]

All you need is visual references to the tanker.

 

 

This is very true. Took me a while to hook up to tanker and stay with it. I read in other posts of people freezing their view. When I get close to the tanker, I hit cntrl + F1 to freeze the HUD view and it actually helped. I can see the boom better and use it for reference when I get connected to keep it in the green. Now I can stay on the boom without disconnecting until the tanker goes into a turn.

[Fakum]

Yes!!! another good point I failed to mention,,,, I do PAUSE my TrackIR on approach,,, keeps me from getting dizzy :},,, really helps me

[GGTharos]

I don't know what to say to that ... never needed to pause/freeze/slow the TIR down. In fact I find that this prevents me from glancing around and maintaining situational awareness :)

[FreeFall]

When I started practising AAR, I also saw this hint of pausing TrackIR. However, I did not pause TrackIR because pausing it makes me feel totally uncomfortable.

[Sarge55]

I use the pause when refueling. First time I used it, it made a world of difference for me, much easier to hook up and stay on the boom. I guess it just depends on the individual.

[Fakum]

Yeah,, it works best for me since all I am focusing on is the fusalage of the tanker and the boom,,, I cant task myself anymore than that,,, its tough enough to keep focused on that,,,

[Speed]

I donno if I added my personal tips to this thread yet... it's a long one.

 

I don't freeze my view, like GG, I would probably find that that would decrease my SA. That might not only be a personal preference, but have to do with your individual track IR settings.

 

A highly precise stick helps immensely with refueling, as does having a stick where you can adjust the curves on the fly, if need be. The X-65 is probably the best stick for precise formation maneuvering, because you can apply a curve- WITHOUT applying a curve, so to speak. With a single button, you can decrease your stick's force sensitivity, and yet, you still have the full range of "motion"- if you pull back hard enough. This is not possible with a stick that actually moves.

 

But anyway, applying a curve can be immensely helpful if one has a more crudely constructed stick like an X-52. My old X-52 just wasn't precise enough to refuel from the tanker without a curve- it was literally not possible to make small enough movements- the stick would get stuck, and then, as you applied more force, suddenly move too much. The first flight after I applied a curve to my X-52, I was able to refuel.

 

Also, I like to extend my air brakes slightly while refueling, it gives me more throttle authority, especially in the backwards direction. You can always back off and try it again, but if you overshoot too far forward, it might be over for everyone.

[Lane]

I Pause track IR, but only when i smoke a cigarette, otherwise it become crazy. :D

 

Anyway back to AAR, well i use the x52 and totally aggree with Speed. if used with default curve, it's a real pain, im sure can be used to it after a while, but you correct or too little, or too much. It miss of sensivity for this type of things.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Lane

[FreeFall]

Just keep training!

 

During the last few weeks I've trained refueling a lot. With "a lot" I mean frequently. Maybe one AAR every second day. I've also trained formation flying with tanker (just fly with the tanker and keep your position "as a wingman" or behind the tanker) and with

BFT11 - Fly 2 Ship as Wingman - http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/110145/

 

Anyway, after this practice period I took a little break; a few days without any refueling.

 

A couple of days later I started my normal refueling practice mission. I got the plane properly trimmed easily. Got contact. Started getting fuel. I did maintain the contact all the time until filled up. This was my first AAR without reconnecting. It felt unbelievably easy.

 

Tried again. Almost got filled up without reconnect, but eventually was a bit slow -> one quick reconnect.

 

Maybe because of my now slighly better formation flying skills (I find formation flying very challenging) my eyes/brain/hands have started to work together subconsciously, and I can maintain the correct position with tanker without too much thinking or constant monitoring my speed on HUD.

 

So, after all it's only a matter of training. And practicing formation flying helps a lot too. I think.

[GGTharos]

Refueling is a little more challenging than formation flying, but same basic ideas :)

 

Congratulations. And a little break is always good - it helps you relax and ditch feelings of expecting failure and other factors - basically education fatigue.

[44th_Rooster]

Basket method wouldn't change the skills you need to stay with it.

 

That is a true statement.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

[bengo]

That is a true statement.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

Aha, I see you are a tester. Does your answer reflect real-life experience, or does it reflect a WIP-Sim experience ? :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Big brother is watching you ;)

 

Aha, I see you are a tester. Does your answer reflect real-life experience, or does it reflect a WIP-Sim experience ? :pilotfly:

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hello Pilots!

 

I'm having great difficultly staying connected. It's possible my hands are not steady enough....or my X52 is not as accurate as it used to be when it was new...I don't know. I just cant seem to stay connected to the tanker for me than a few seconds.

 

Does anyone have any pointers ? Anything would help.:helpsmilie:

 

Thanks.

 

You my friend, need a decent HOTAS.. :joystick:

[Tailgate]

I'm finally getting refueling down. I've been practicing with the Tanker flying straight for a couple hundred miles, now I'm about ready to add wind and a Tanker track. My struggle is trying to keep the barber pole in the green, takes really minute movements of throttle and trim.

 

I saw the craziest thing in one of my missions. I'm about ready to connect and 2 Eagles come blasting in about 400 kts headed directly for the Tankers 6. Tanker makes an evasive move with chicks in tow as the eagles blow by underneath, then to make things worse, they come back around and cut in front of the line. If I didn't break off I would have been toast. I think I need to adjust their speed, but hopefully in 1.1.1.1, they'll wait their turn. lol

[Supersheep]

Nah, on Monday I flew a mission I built with some other guys in MP and had to shoot down a C-17 and an F-15 I put in there because they basically were about to do the same.

Mission was built and run in 1.1.1.1.

I have to remenber to change that mission by the way...

 

 

Supersheep

[Tailgate]

Guess there's no point in arguing with Eagle pilots. :)