Air Refueling - Any tips?

[Tailgate]

I believe there's a limit to the fuel allowed in MP. Perhaps the other guy had more fuel to begin with and was above the fuel margin which would allow him to complete the fueling. Could also be a bug or due to connection lag that throws off the calculations. Just guessing.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tailgate

[Osmo]

I have a problem with air refueling in MP. I manage to find the tanker with Tacan and the initial contact through radio works, and I get the altitude for pre-contact. However, when I ask for Pre-Contact, the tanker no longer responds to me at all. I've tried doing this several times, being about 1nm away from tanker (also tried being closer and farther, trying to match speeds).

 

Whatever I do, the tanker just simply ignores my request for pre-contact. I've tried aborting and starting approach again. Initial communication with tanker works fine (so I'm on right frequency), but they just ignore my pre-contact request. Any ideas how to get it to work?

[Nu-NRG]

I have a problem with air refueling in MP. I manage to find the tanker with Tacan and the initial contact through radio works, and I get the altitude for pre-contact. However, when I ask for Pre-Contact, the tanker no longer responds to me at all. I've tried doing this several times, being about 1nm away from tanker (also tried being closer and farther, trying to match speeds).

 

Whatever I do, the tanker just simply ignores my request for pre-contact. I've tried aborting and starting approach again. Initial communication with tanker works fine (so I'm on right frequency), but they just ignore my pre-contact request. Any ideas how to get it to work?

You would be in the wrong position.

 

Try to have tanker in the place between HUD and canopy strut.

Don't be to low, high or far behind. 1nm is way behind.

[Frostiken]

I usually have to spam the precontact message and get dangerously close for them to do anything.

[Osmo]

You would be in the wrong position.

 

Try to have tanker in the place between HUD and canopy strut.

Don't be to low, high or far behind. 1nm is way behind.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I've tried being behind him up to about 50 meters distance (and several distances from 50m to 1nm). I got the 1nm from the Flight Manual (page 495): "Upon reaching the pre-contact position 1nm behind tanker in trail, you need to stabilize your position and establish a zero rate of closure on the tanker"

 

Is it normal that the tanker doesn't reply anything if you aren't in the right position?

 

Edit: I tried to do it according to your instructions (getting extremely close), and after about 4 minutes of requesting pre-contact I finally got it. I tried again and on my second attempt it took me even longer (about 6 minutes) of constantly requesting pre-contact until it worked. I find it a bit strange that the most difficult part of the aerial refueling in this game is requesting pre-contact.

 

I recorded it on video just to confirm with you all whether I'm doing something specifically wrong, or is it this hard for everyone? Here's the video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKOZB_T8YhM&hd=1

Edited March 8, 2012 by Osmo

[Nu-NRG]

Is it normal that the tanker doesn't reply anything if you aren't in the right position?

That has happened to me before. In particular when I was to far out.

[Osmo]

That has happened to me before. In particular when I was to far out.

Hmm, from that I understand it only happens sometimes? So it's not normal for the request of pre-contact to fail 99% of time? For me it fails most of the time :( Am I doing something wrong here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKOZB_T8YhM&hd=1

[sobek]

Well, to be frank, you were all over the place... :)

 

You need to be stable at a position close to and slightly under the tanker, i don't know what the exact dimensions for that box are, but from the video it is apparent that at no time did you stay at a stable precontact position for at least a few seconds. Maybe that is you taking your hand off the stick to use the mouse (which i find a bad idea in this case, use your left hand and the keyboard, that works much faster, your right hand has to stay on the stick to keep you stable), but you need to work on your formation skills.

 

Edit: To give you a better idea, until about 2:20 of that video, you were much too far away, and following that, you were probably in range, but not at the correct position.

 

Edit2: To give you an even better idea, see attached track. Disregard the procedural errors i made, i forgot that PAC and master arm default to on on mission start.

Refuel.trk

Edited March 8, 2012 by sobek

[Osmo]

Thanks for your advice and the track sobek. Very nice and smooth refueling in the track!

 

You were right, I was all over the place, and the reason was exactly what you thought: I took my right hand away from joystick in order to press the menu with mouse. Unfortunately this clickable menu doesn't seem to support the default numbers anymore, but I found another solution: Using the mouse with my left hand.

 

Now that I realize how close (and how stable) it must be, I'm getting a successful pre-contact on first or second attempt every time. I still have trouble keeping it steady during the refueling but I guess I just need more practice. :)

 

For everyone else struggling with pre-contact problem, just remember these three:

 

- Distance must be very close slightly below the tanker

- Speed must match the tanker (or very close)

- Your plane has to stay stable, no moving around.

 

I'm still wondering why the flight manual says 1nm though, in-game that seems to be impossible.

[sobek]

Now that I realize how close (and how stable) it must be, I'm getting a successful pre-contact on first or second attempt every time. I still have trouble keeping it steady during the refueling but I guess I just need more practice. :)

 

The point where it suddenly started to work was when i shifted my eyes from the boom to the tanker wing roots. I keep the boom in my peripheral sight to see where i'm at in the box, but my real reference are the wingroots. The disconnect shortly after my first try is because i didn't shift my view so i could see the tanker properly. But as you say, practice makes perfect.

 

You may also want to start with a tanker in straight flight. Orbit is a little bit trickier (though not much).

[FreeFall]

use your left hand and the keyboard, that works much faster, your right hand has to stay on the stick to keep you stable

 

Exactly.

 

Unfortunately this clickable menu doesn't seem to support the default numbers anymore, but I found another solution: Using the mouse with my left hand.

 

Strange. :confused: I've always used keyboard with my left hand as sobek mentioned. Never even thought about using mouse.

[sobek]

Strange. :confused: I've always used keyboard with my left hand as sobek mentioned. Never even thought about using mouse.

 

He's using a mod that makes the radio menu clickable.

[FreeFall]

He's using a mod that makes the radio menu clickable.

 

OK, mod, now I understand. However, that mod doesn't seem to be very handy. :huh:

[Nu-NRG]

OK, mod, now I understand. However, that mod doesn't seem to be very handy. :huh:

Move it left side on a touch screen, it suddenly becomes handy :D

[Joyride]

It may have been a bug, I just replayed the mission and after staying connected and getting ~75% fuel it said transfer complete. But previously when he was constantly saying disconnect I wouldn't receive fuel and I was far from full. Don't know why it worked for the other guy flying though

 

Yeah, this is a known MP bug that the host client can't get full tanks. Usually will stop fuel flow (sometimes with "transfer complete", sometimes fuel flow just stops) anywhere between 7,000 lbs and 11,000 lbs. 9,000 seems to be the most common max for me when I am hosting a mission. Gets really annoying in long missions where that few thousand pounds makes a huge difference. We've been able to get to around this issue if we use a "dedicated" server with serv-man, but that's not very practical most of the time.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Joyride

[Osmo]

Thanks y'all, especially sobek, for the instructions. Here is my first successful attempt:

[Rusty_M]

Just tried this for the first time last night. My god it's difficult, isn't it?

 

So far I've had a 2 second connection. Lots of work to do to learn this.

[GGTharos]

You'll do fine, everyone struggles at first and only manages to connect for a short moment, but in the end it only takes practice :)

 

Forget the HUD, and to some extent, the boom. Just get used to what the tanker looks like against your canopy rail, and use that sight picture to maintain formation. You'll do very well!

 

Just remember to make small corrections, and if you are getting frustrated, move back, relax, try again. If you're only getting frustrated, stop: You're no longer learning.

 

Just tried this for the first time last night. My god it's difficult, isn't it?

 

So far I've had a 2 second connection. Lots of work to do to learn this.

[cichlidfan]

If you're only getting frustrated, stop: You're no longer learning.

 

If you shoot down the tanker. Stop. You're no longer learning.:D

[Rusty_M]

If you shoot down the tanker. Stop. You're no longer learning.:D

 

Actually, it was my wingman who got shot.

 

I did just that. I thought "it's 1AM, I'm not going to make any more progress tonight"

[kharne]

&*@!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I swear I can get everything perfect, move right up into position, nice and slow... and then right as I connect it's like I automatically speed up suddenly. And with the TM HOTAS, I'm much more in control than I was with my old Saitek.

 

Youtube makes it look so easy.

[kharne]

Well I managed to connect for the first time, and took maybe 300 pounds of fuel before disconnecting. Might need to take a little break and do something easier for the rest of the night!

[Snaut]

Success!

 

I just managed to get (almost) a full tank in a (almost) single connection for the first time! Awesome feeling :)

 

It was helpful to me to sit high, having unobstructed view of the tanker above the wind-shield rim, through the canopy.

refuel success.trk

[Osmo]

I just managed to get (almost) a full tank in a (almost) single connection for the first time! Awesome feeling :)

 

It was helpful to me to sit high, having unobstructed view of the tanker above the wind-shield rim, through the canopy.

 

I usually do the opposite, I set my seat all the way down so I can see the plane through canopy better :)

 

And it's great feeling when you manage to get the full tank for the first time after trying long time

[Daze]

Is there any way to change the deadzone/curvature on the fly via a keyboard command or something? This would really help me as I feel my stick is a bit twitchy.