Air refuel tutorial

[Custer]

Hi all,

 

I have made a 10min tutorial on Air to Air refuel with KC-135, there is no speaker in the clip but there is some text in the clip on what to do and some tips.

 

Hope you enjoy my first try to make a tutorial :smartass:

 

[FlyingBrick]

Nice flying!

 

Thanks for the vid.

[Frostiken]

Frosti's air refueling tutorial:

 

Put the thing in the hole until the stuff sprays out.

[ilikepie]

got vid for that one frostie?......... wait....hang on....

 

on second thoughts, don't want to see it

[Kaiza]

Nice.

 

BTW you can turn the TACAN audio ident off on the intercom control panel by pushing the volume knob in.

[Custer]

Nice.

 

BTW you can turn the TACAN audio ident off on the intercom control panel by pushing the volume knob in.

 

Nice I have seen that panel but I have not looked into it, thanks for the tip.

[sobek]

Nice flying, but i'd like to add that additionally to safing all the weapons, you should do a fence out procedure before forming up, that includes putting the CMS in STBY, lights, check of the fuel panel switches, etc., it's listed pretty well in paulrkii's checklist if anybody is interested in the specifics.

 

Apart from that, nice vid. :thumbup:

[bluepilot76]

Nice flying! Have you edited your controller curves?

[Cibit]

Very well controlled. My big problem is keeping trimmed. I trim and then the slightest input on my stick causes me to pitch all over the place. well specifically nose up 10 degrees. Any suggestions?

[Machinist]

Wow, you made that look effortless! I still have yet to even connect, much less take on a couple thousand pounds of fuel.

 

:joystick: <--- Me, trying to refuel.

[Fish]

Great Video. Only thing missing is a 'disconnect' 'reconnect' procedure, because you held on to the boom so well!! (you did cover it in the text).

 

:thumbup:

[Doum76]

Very nice :)

 

Too bad i didn't get your video before all the training i made. :S

 

Here's the vid i made, i do not have the proper checklist, but still, the challenge of refueling itself is something. Good job buddy.

 

 

:pilotfly:

[FlyingBrick]

Very well controlled. My big problem is keeping trimmed. I trim and then the slightest input on my stick causes me to pitch all over the place. well specifically nose up 10 degrees. Any suggestions?

 

 

Sounds like you might need to adjust the curve or dead zones through Axis Tune.

[Zeke]

Nice Vids guys, thanks!

 

My problem is speed and altitude. I can hook up most of the time, but staying on is a bugger. Mostly end up to fast or too slow. Can't seem to find a sweat spot on the throttle. It always ends up right over the dedent in the throttle.

[FlyingBrick]

Hey Zeke, try deploying a little bit of speed brake. That should change your throttle position away from the indent.

 

These guys made it look so easy I had to give it another go, now my hands are all sweaty.

[Doum76]

Hey,

 

Well what sure helps as mentioned by a few, is adjusting the axis curves in the options, some uses 15 as curvature and 3-5 of deadzone, some i know, uses 30 curvature and no deadzone. I ended up to about 20 of curvature and no deadzone for the pitch, as for roll, 20 curvature, and since my joystick's spring tend to be a little bit off centered, on side ways, i put in 3 of deadzone. (DCS-10C ingame options, command panel and AXIS-Tune, Roll.; and Pitch)

 

As for the speed, well i couldn'd find the perfect spot and hold it, sounds weird, but to air refluel i personaly used my many hours of flight in FSX doing Carrier Landing Practice, i mean, no perfect spot on throttle, always small adjustement to correct you speed and glideslope. I think i mentioned it in my vid and Custer also did the same.

 

First trim, practice from distance, find the Tanker's speed, then try to match his speed, trim your plane. then slowly move closer to him by playing with your throttle, give up maybe 1-2 % of throttle to gain about 1-2 knots more, in other word, same speed, 1-2 % more throttle, pull back that 1-2 % and leave it there so the drag makes you loose your speed, if you leave it too close to the same speed of him you'll end up ganing too much power and get too close of him and will need to over correct, then watch the tanker, once he starts to pull away from you since you lost speed, give it back 1-2% throttle nodge, then pull back. Rembert hat the airplane glides, so it doesn't stop right away, so if you give in too much throttle, you'll end up to overcorrect your maneuver. Watch again both of us movies, and listen to the engines, you'll see how many often we adjust the speed, and once we are connected, watch the tanker or the boom's color code and listen to our engine adjustement.

 

Hard to explain, besides praticing, as i've heard in a TV series «Jetstream »

the 9 months training of Canadian CF-18 Fighter pilots, once an instructor said; « Practice, practice, practice, once your fingers starts to bleed, you might get close to it »

 

then once again, curve adjustement, triming, control of your throttle adjustements, small adjustement not overcorrect is mostly about it, and lots of practice. Sure at first we all end up with lot of nervs and crisped on the chair. :) sweated hands... but it goes away with practice and it help....

 

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

Nice Vids guys, thanks!

 

My problem is speed and altitude. I can hook up most of the time, but staying on is a bugger. Mostly end up to fast or too slow. Can't seem to find a sweat spot on the throttle. It always ends up right over the dedent in the throttle.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Doum76

[infraslove]

Here are some small things I do when refueling, I usually can do it in 1 to 3 connects.

watch the tanker and not the boom, first time I stopped watching the boom and just kept my plane in the same spot in relation to the tanker I got it in one try. Also remember once you get trimmed in if you speed up you will also pitch up and if you speed down you will also pitch down, try to anticipate those factors to keep your plane level. For example if you slowing down you will not only move back from the tanker but also down, and vice versa if you speed up. good luck and stay at it, you will get it eventually.

Also that was some nice flying by the way, thanks for the videos!

Edited June 12, 2011 by infraslove
forgot to thank for video and give props on excellent flying

[Custer]

Nice flying! Have you edited your controller curves?

 

Yes I have, curves on 15 and deadzone on 3. My X52 is not centered any more, to mutch Blackshark and DCS A-10C :joystick::joystick::joystick:

 

I saw a post on this on the ED forum about the curves and the deadzone and it really helpt me alot.

[Custer]

Very well controlled. My big problem is keeping trimmed. I trim and then the slightest input on my stick causes me to pitch all over the place. well specifically nose up 10 degrees. Any suggestions?

 

I have changed the curves to 15 and deadzone to 3, and this help me alot. As you can hear on the video Im using my throttle and doing small changes, and the same for my joystick.

[JHepburn]

To add to what Duom76 mentions, above:

 

1. When you form up on right wing of tanker, match speed and trim for that speed. Take as long as you need to fly a nice formation and get everything where you want it.

2. Understand what the "picture" is during precontact and while on the boom. There are plenty of videos to show you how it should look

3. Anticipate the throttle movement. You don't have to move it far, but you do have to be ahead of the jet.

4. When you push the throttles up, the plane tends to move up relative to the tanker (and vice versa when pulling throttles back). Be ready for it with VERY small inputs

5. Don't retrim based on #4. I don't mess with my trim at all after #1

6. Put your feet on the floor and not on the pedals

7. Relax and breath. It takes a while to get used to it

 

I also mapped the refueling door onto my HOTAS. I found that whenever I look down things went awry, so take every opportunity not to have to take your eyes off the tanker.

[Soul]

This helped a lot with the sensitive controls jerky movements.

 

Q: Why are my controls too sensitive?

A: The default axis settings for the stick and be a bit touchy for some. If you feel this is the case or you. we suggest:

1- Select Options from Main Menu

2- Select Controls tab

3- From Category drop down list, select Axis Commands

4- Select Pitch for JOY Y and then press Axis Tune button

5- Set JOY Y Deadzone to 10 and Curvature to 30

6- Press Ok button

4- Select Roll for JOY X and then press Axis Tune button

5- Set JOY X Deadzone to 10 and Curvature to 30

6- Press Ok button

7- Press Ok button at bottom of screen to save changes.

 

Found here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=67747

 

Nice videos! I have a lot more flying time to do before I attempt this :)

Edited June 12, 2011 by Soul

[bluepilot76]

Hi Custer,

Thanks for your reply re axis curves. I had not wanted to change mine in case it caused difficulties in other areas, however I set them to the same setting as yourself and was able to stay on and do the whole refuelling in one go! very satisfying! thanks for the info!

[Custer]

Hi Custer,

Thanks for your reply re axis curves. I had not wanted to change mine in case it caused difficulties in other areas, however I set them to the same setting as yourself and was able to stay on and do the whole refuelling in one go! very satisfying! thanks for the info!

 

Nice to hear, I got this information from another member on this forum so I can not realy take the credit :thumbup: :joystick:

[Eggcake]

Tried it too yesterday. Damn it's difficult. Was my first try. I could connect but no more than 5 seconds or so. And my hand hurt afterwards haha. Will keep practicing.

 

One problem I'm still having is to trim properly. Any tips for that? I mean - I can make my plane fly straight more or less but it takes really long until I get it right...

Edited June 13, 2011 by Eggcake

[bluepilot76]

Hi Custer,

Actually it was more seeing you bobbing around for ages on the refuel, that made me realise how much more controllable it should be, hence inspiring me to get round to changing the values. Certainly does make a big difference.

 

Eggcake, possibly you are trying too hard to find a trim for every situation, I think what you need to do is find out the tanker speed, then realise that you need to trim so you are flying straight and level when at that speed. then not touch the trim again.

 

So for example, tanker speed 218kts. you find the trim where when you are flying 218 constant, without changing the throttles, the aircraft will hold level for extended periods, say 5 seconds or so, then you might need to make a small attitude correction, but that trim is probably about right, so dont touch it. You probably wont ever find the exact trim, then understand that as you increase the throttles and speed in order to close in on the boom, your trim will momentarily become incorrect. BUT DONT CHANGE IT! because when you reduce speed to hold the correct position on the tanker, you will fly back into the correct trim that you had already established in your pre contact position. Maybe this is the problem you have, thats how I think of it anyway.