DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[GeorgeLKMT]

But that makes no sense, it would only make a little bit of sense if the map is unusable in EDGE and you wanted to get it in there faster, otherwise, if you are rebuilding the map, new art assets would make more sense... what would be the benefit otherwise?

 

But those art assets would take time and dev resources to make, right? Maybe they don't want to spend the time on it. Considering the "assets" we talk about are buildings, terrain mesh, trees, textures... well, basically everything the map is made of. It's not like I wouldn't want better caucasus, but if they don't have a time or will to redone the map or at least upgrade it a little, porting it as it is actually makes sense the most.

Edited January 21, 2014 by GeorgeLKMT

[NineLine]

Absolutely, but those art assets would take time and dev resources to make, right? Maybe they don't want to spend the time on it. Considering the "assets" we talk about are buildings, terrain mesh, trees, textures... well, basically everything the map is made of. It's not like I wouldn't want better caucasus, but if they don't have a time or will to redone the map or at least upgrade it a little, porting it as it is actually makes sense the most.

 

But, that still doesnt make sense as we will have all that with the old map, if someone wants to recreate in EDGE, I hope they would take the time and effort to update everything, otherwise there is no point, unless, as I said, the old map wasnt available in EDGE.

 

Anyways... nobody is doing anything with the old map, its supposed to run in EDGE. Thats really all we know about it.

[GeorgeLKMT]

It makes sense because I'm talking about current old map ONLY. ;) As the people before were worried about caucasus going away or not being able to run in EDGE. It stays and will run in EDGE. Of course, just like you say, if someones wants to recreate it with all the EDGE gimmicks, they really should make all the assets from scratch and not reuse the old stuff. That is what this discussion was about all along, just little misunderstanding in eachother posts. ;)

Edited January 21, 2014 by GeorgeLKMT

[outlawal2]

It makes sense because I'm talking about current old map ONLY. ;) As the people before were worried about caucasus going away or not being able to run in EDGE. It stays and will run in EDGE. Of course, just like you say, if someones wants to recreate it with all the EDGE gimmicks, they really should make all the assets from scratch and not reuse the old stuff. That is what this discussion was about all along, just little misunderstanding in eachother posts. ;)

 

 

I think you may be still misunderstanding the details on this. The OLD map untouched, exactly as it is, will run IN EDGE but will look exactly the same... It will require ZERO effort to do so.. Now any changes to the art or whatever DOES require work and that is why it isn't happening..

[GeorgeLKMT]

I think you may be still misunderstanding the details on this. The OLD map untouched, exactly as it is, will run IN EDGE but will look exactly the same... It will require ZERO effort to do so.. Now any changes to the art or whatever DOES require work and that is why it isn't happening..

 

This is exactly what I just said. Map will stay the same, no change, portover to EDGE with exactly the same look. ;)

[outlawal2]

This is exactly what I just said. Map will stay the same, no change, portover to EDGE with exactly the same look. ;)

 

You have just managed to go full circle on yourself and have made absolutely ZERO sense.. So what exactly was your point in the first place? If you already knew the old map was usable in EDGE and any changes would require work? What exactly was your point?

[Rotorhead]

The OLD map untouched, exactly as it is, will run IN EDGE but will look exactly the same...

 

Actually, not exactly. The new map will use EDGE, while the old one will still utilize the old engine - both engines will be supported in DCS. At least this is what I understood (if it's not the case, please forgive my ignorance).

 

Porting the Caucasus map into EDGE would actually make some sense, because , while it would still retain its current outdated look, it could at least benefit from global edge features, like DX11 support (hopefully more performance!), new clouds and effects (which are engine, not map dependent), etc.

 

So there are three possibilities:

 

1. Old map using old engine = no improvement both in looks and performance, no extra work needed (which is what we will get)

 

2. New map using EDGE = better looks, (hopefully) better performance, lots of work needed (which is what's not happening, but it would make for a nice 3rd party project)

 

3. Old map ported into EDGE = same old looks with some improved effects, hopefully better performance, not so much work needed (and this is what I believe George suggested, kind of middle ground)

[cichlidfan]

1. Old map using old engine = no improvement both in looks and performance, no extra work needed (which is what we will get)

 

2. New map using EDGE = better looks, (hopefully) better performance, lots of work needed (which is what's not happening, but it would make for a nice 3rd party project)

 

3. Old map ported into EDGE = same old looks with some improved effects, hopefully better performance, not so much work needed (and this is what I believe George suggested, kind of middle ground)

 

The problem with this discussion is that we currently do not know enough about how EDGE does/will work to determine whether 3 is even possible, which could leave 2 as the only option for improving the current map.

[NineLine]

The problem with this discussion is that we currently do not know enough about how EDGE does/will work to determine whether 3 is even possible, which could leave 2 as the only option for improving the current map.

 

 

Actually I believe they have stated, that in order to take any benefits from EDGE that the old map would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, so I dont believe 3 is really viable from the sounds of it, and again... not to mention, who would want a half assed map anyways, if you are going to put some effort in, go all the way.

[cichlidfan]

Actually I believe they have stated, that in order to take any benefits from EDGE that the old map would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, so I dont believe 3 is really viable from the sounds of it,...

 

That is my impression as well but I was not 100% sure.

[GeorgeLKMT]

who would want a half assed map anyways, if you are going to put some effort in, go all the way.

 

I don't think it would be a problem considering the map would remain free with Su-25T. It looks bad and it might not benefit from the EDGE features, but just like free demostration of what DCS is about it's good enough I would say. Of course, if it's possible, like cichlidfan said, we can only speculate and have our own opinions about. Time will tell.

 

 

@outlawal2: You can continue in my PM if you wish, I'm not willing to hijack this thread futher just for the sake of argument.

[EtherealN]

Actually I believe they have stated, that in order to take any benefits from EDGE that the old map would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, so I dont believe 3 is really viable from the sounds of it, and again... not to mention, who would want a half assed map anyways, if you are going to put some effort in, go all the way.

 

The key issue is that EDGE requires new tools. Tools that are not compatible with the old tools.

 

This means you are _literally_ starting from scratch to do _anything_ to the old map.

 

And when starting from scratch, might as well pair that up with offering customers a new area to fight in. we've heard enough people saying they're "tired" of the caucasus/Black Sea.

[NineLine]

 

And when starting from scratch, might as well pair that up with offering customers a new area to fight in. we've heard enough people saying they're "tired" of the caucasus/Black Sea.

 

 

Yes and no... I mean, I think the current map is a great area for the sim, and re-done in all EDGE goodness would be incredible, and refreshing... that said, I am sure ED is tired of living there so I am sure that would fall to a 3rd party if anyone....

[Luzifer]

1. Old map using old engine = no improvement both in looks and performance, no extra work needed (which is what we will get)

 

From what we know, the current graphics and simulation are intertwined, which is what makes a dedicated server impossible. The integration of EDGE changes that and who knows what else.

 

If there is a simple way to integrate the old renderer into the new way of doing stuff, keeping it for the old map might be possible. Otherwise, and I think this isn't unlikely, they would essentially have to keep two separate, mostly complete simulators inside the same application indefinitely. And they would have twice the bugs, every module might work differently depending on the renderer/map… That way lies madness.

 

I think an automated conversion of the old map to EDGE (which wouldn't really make use of new features) followed by throwing the old code out is more likely.

[Rotorhead]

... not to mention, who would want a half assed map anyways, if you are going to put some effort in, go all the way.

 

Because a half-assed map is better than no map at all. And, while NTTR will be cool, let's face it - it has been discussed million times before - not everybody wants to be limited to training flights only, and having live combat action in the downtown Las Vegas feels just... ya know.

 

So giving players the opportunity to use at least some benefits of EDGE in the old map while waiting for some new "real" map (assuming it would take minimum effort) would be not that bad. But, if it's simply not possible, as stated by EtheralN, then well, I think that settles it.

 

 

And when starting from scratch, might as well pair that up with offering customers a new area to fight in. we've heard enough people saying they're "tired" of the caucasus/Black Sea.

 

You might or you might not. Some players actually like the old map, and I'm sure it would look nice in full EDGE glory. In my opinion, any map comparable with current Caucasus one, both in size and scenario potential, would be good.

[EtherealN]

Yes and no... I mean, I think the current map is a great area for the sim, and re-done in all EDGE goodness would be incredible, and refreshing... that said, I am sure ED is tired of living there so I am sure that would fall to a 3rd party if anyone....

 

Yeah, but if choosing between "only" a new Black Sea, or having the old Black Sea plus Korea, or Taiwan, or Afghanistan, or Iceland, or whatever else... The choice becomes rather obvious to my mind.

 

Not to forget as well that the "new Black Sea" would have to pay for itself, so I doubt it could be made free. And imagine the confusion of having both a free and a payware map of the same area... >.<

[NineLine]

Yeah, but if choosing between "only" a new Black Sea, or having the old Black Sea plus Korea, or Taiwan, or Afghanistan, or Iceland, or whatever else... The choice becomes rather obvious to my mind.

 

Of course...

[NineLine]

Because a half-assed map is better than no map at all. And, while NTTR will be cool, let's face it - it has been discussed million times before - not everybody wants to be limited to training flights only, and having live combat action in the downtown Las Vegas feels just... ya know.

 

Well you are only limited by your imagination... how Many A-10s have flown combat missions over Sochi? But lets not get that debate going again...

[8core]

You seem to be misunderstanding.

 

A new IG (Image Generator) is already well underway. This is what the NTTR ("Nevada") map uses. The discussion is about whether old old Black Sea map can use the new features and what would be required for it to do so.

 

thanks for clarifying explain :thumbup:

 

then I can expect new effects; snow, smoke, shrapnel, vapor, rain drops on the canopy, snow in the canopy ,vortex , effects CBU hollywood, real explosions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiA0nMiw1ho

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/8/6/1598688.jpg

 

when dcs get this quality of effects, I'll be happy

Edited January 21, 2014 by 8core

[BBQ]

It would be great to have one additional edge map - like say for example, ummm, DCS WWII: Europe?

;)

[outlawal2]

It would be great to have one additional edge map - like say for example, ummm, DCS WWII: Europe?

;)

 

Would that be like the one they have already announced multiple times in the WW2 forum?

 

:doh:

[NineLine]

It would be great to have one additional edge map - like say for example, ummm, DCS WWII: Europe?

;)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114220

[luckybob9]

;)

Winky face for the win!

[Phantom88]

THIS.......In The Mi-8 or Huey will be Magnificent!!:thumbup:

[wasyl00]

Yep that's great. I'm just thinking how to explain it to my graphic card...lol