Supersheep Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Hi! I was reading about SAMs (e. g. the S-300) being designed to defend against (longer range) cruise missiles. Could the nastier of them also engage my mavericks? Is this modeled in DCS? Edit: I was a bit quick to write this. Of couse I know that it would be hard to come into MAV range against one of those. Let's assume I use terrain masking for the sake of it. Regards, Supersheep Edited November 17, 2011 by Supersheep The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
falcon_120 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Chances are very small,not because they can't but because it's extremely difficult.Your maverick as any other thing in the sky has a rcs and can be detected at small range by the radar and hence engaged, but the maverick unlike a cruise missile has a very short flight usually about 10-20 seconds, and that is almost the minimal time a sam need to engage. Although some SAM like the aegis sistem for example have an automatic mode in which is the computer who engage at will and has a reaction time of 2-3 seconds between detecting a threat and launching a missile.
EtherealN Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 My suspicion would be that the system used for something like this would be more likely to be something like a CIWS, or perhaps Pantsir. I'm not sure about whether the hype around the Pantsir is to be considered hype or actual capability, but that type of weapon is what I suspect would be what would engage something like a maverick. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
159th_Viper Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 The TOR-M2 and the Pantsir-S1 systems are there specifically to protect the S-300/400 sites and they'll be the ones to shoot your Maverick from the sky. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
falcon_120 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Yeah something like a CIWS or a Pantsir is more likely :). But even so I see it very difficult,a Ciws is in a ship and it is almost imposible to get so close to a ship unnotice so they're already alerted,but on the ground a plane can appear almost everywhere without you been aware of it so the reactions times are minimal, though you never know how advanced those systems really are ;) so...
EtherealN Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Falcon, CIWS-style systems of various types are used on land as well. ILcVt9p7cug [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
topol-m Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 ^^ Gave me goose bumps :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
VFA41_Lion Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 In the sim, I've never seen a maverick shot down. I have, however, seen HARMs get shot down repeatedly by the Tunguska's small fast interceptor missiles. TLAMs also get nailed frequently by the SA-15 Tor.
EtherealN Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 ^^ Gave me goose bumps :) It does that to me too. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
Tucano_uy Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 In the sim, I've never seen a maverick shot down. I have, however, seen HARMs get shot down repeatedly by the Tunguska's small fast interceptor missiles. TLAMs also get nailed frequently by the SA-15 Tor. I did see it in FC2. Unfortunately I don't remember what SAM I was fighting against (Strela maybe). In a simple mission I created I remember that I tried to lock it several times and I was always shot down. Just by chance, I shot a maverick towards the general area where the SAM was and the SAM shot at it before shooting at me, second mav destroyed the SAM. I will try to do it again and post a track.
topol-m Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 In the sim, I've never seen a maverick shot down. Hmmm can anyone confirm this? Tor should be able to shoot such missiles. What about Pantsir S-1, is this system in DCS A-10C? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Mack Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 You should be standing near one of those things (the ground based CIWS) when they go off. It's unreal. Then you get popcorn in the sky.
Supersheep Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 Wow, this is already more feedback than I expected. The HARM intercept by those Tunguska's sounds interesting. About the RCS, I assumed that those mavericks are not optimized in any way and should therefore be a potential and worthwhile target. In the future, I'll remember to put something more agile next to SAMs when I build a mission (still have a long way to go for more than practice missions). I wonder how SAMs and their systems treat targets the computer assumes to come in kind of close. Will it be possible for air defences to "know" about each other in future DCS models (corresponding to real life, that is) so they can protect themselves but avoid wasting missiles if there is something cheaper around? Of course that would be a bummer for the average Hog pilot, so I am all for F-15 SE. Supersheep The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
159th_Viper Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Of course that would be a bummer for the average Hog pilot, so I am all for F-15 SE.... One day we'll hopefully see the Vityaz medium-range SAM system In-SIM. With the capability of tracking 40 targets and engaging 8 simultaneously, not even the F-15SE will be able to save your Bacon :D Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Krebs20 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Tunguska would shoot down mavs in beta if I remember right. I wondered what happened to this. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Supersheep Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 I read another thread about it, but DCS: Sam Operator wuold be booooring for hours and then like "Oh yeah of little faith" - "Ohh shit" But with the right Sam... :( Bad time to be a pilot. My last one for today: DCS: X47B :D @Krebs20: I haven't used the beta's, but that might have been great. Weird to have this removed. Supersheep The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
GGTharos Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Not a problem, it'll just TWS-drop SDB's with BLU-108's from 40-60nm, turn around and go home :D One day we'll hopefully see the Vityaz medium-range SAM system In-SIM. With the capability of tracking 40 targets and engaging 8 simultaneously, not even the F-15SE will be able to save your Bacon :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
topol-m Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 I'm not sure how effective Tunguska would be against missile/bomb/shell targets but Tor-M1, M2-E as well as Pantsir S-1 are used for defense against such, of course they can't detect them at long distances and the hit probability should be somewhat lower compared to an aircraft-sized target. If I'm not mistaken Tor-M1 was firing against missiles in FC2, what made you change that in DCS, if it is changed at all cause I still haven't seen a definitive confirmation or denial of anti-missile capabilities? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Nate--IRL-- Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Tunguska would shoot down mavs in beta if I remember right. I wondered what happened to this. I asked at the time, apparently the RCS of the missile is deemed too small for the Tunguska to target it. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
GGTharos Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 ^^^^ Quite right. The fuze of the missile used by Tunguska is not very good against missiles (not good at all in fact). Though IIRC they may have got an upgraded missile. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
159th_Viper Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Tunguskas are being replaced by the Pantsir - might be worth a concerted push for DCS Integration. That'll sort those pesky AGM's :D Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
GGTharos Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 We'd need a better ECM model. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Supersheep Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 And an aircraft that can uses something more sophisticated. SDB's, anyone? Or an SSGN like USS Florida. Or an EW aircraft. Or player-controllable ground combat. Or a DCS. So much to do. So much to learn. I am dreaming too far ahead. Supersheep The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
WarriorX Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 I have had a SA-15 TOR shoot one of my Mavericks out of the sky. This was during the beta, so I dont know if they still can. It was an amazing engagement. Here is a link to the original post:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63517 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Is that you John Wayne?.......Is this me?" Full Metal Jacket //My Mission Data Card//My Cold Start Checklist //Clearing a Hung Store Tutorial //CDU Offset//Asterisk Error Correction Procedure//JTAC UTM Coordinate Entry Tutorial//JTAC 9 Line Lat Long Coordinate Entry Tutorial
Evil.Bonsai Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Went to go test some of these ideas and found a major issue with 1110 vs 1109: SEAD is broke. SEAD flights won't engage many systems. I was able to SEAD engage the Tunguska, though the Tung. beat the HARM 7 of 8 times. Only 1 HARM made it through. SEAD vs SA6, SA8, SA10: no engagement at all. Created same mission in 1109 and SEAD engaged normally.
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