To Devs: Regarding trimmer

[Brainless]

No - see here:

 

4l_LhCRIRgo

 

From simhq.com (BS Autopilot Article 1):

The second control feature that enables the pilot to avoid fights with the autopilot is that the autopilot control feedback inputs are disabled while the Trimmer button is held down.

Pressing and immediate releasing trimmer, gives me a bump.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Brainless

[EtherealN]

Please correct me if this understanding is flawed!

 

The "flaw" is that you actually do not need to "fight" it. Yes, the AP will do what it does, but I've flown racetracks in the cities (I used to love to fly the sochi railway at 5m AGL and overspeed warning screeching) without ever using the trimmer at all - neither "clicker" nor "holding". And that's not boasting, it's just a case of that's how I flew in the beginning - I adjust my inputs depending on what the aircraft is doing, which applies with or without AP "doing it's thing". So sure, I probably am "fighting the AP", but I don't notice it since I'm used to it.

 

If you want to lose the AP fight, I'd personally suggest using FD mode. We all cut some corners when we don't have proper spring-loading on the controls, and in my case I always have to work on trimming more (since I trim too little really, but I'm getting better at it :P ).

 

Resetting the trimmer when re-pressed isn't a totally bad idea, but there is a potential problem when it comes to "walking" the cyclic with quick, small, depressions, which is very good for precise handling when landing on ships or tight spaces, which I think might make it less than optimal solution.

[spikenet]

No - see here:

 

Has a real ka50 ever been flown that aggressively? :)

 

..just askin..

[EtherealN]

Hey, it's what sims are for: fly it like you stole it. :D

[kylania]

Pressing and immediate releasing trimmer, gives me a bump.

 

How large of a correction are you trying to trim anyway? For me I was trying to do large corrections and was wildly tilting and pulling around. As soon as I started doing very small trims flight was so much smoother. Try multiple 2-5 degree trims rather than a 20-30 degree one maybe?

 

If you could post a track of what you're doing I think it would be the best way of figuring out how to get you the control you want.

[Mustur]

Nice flying Viper :thumbup:

 

That's the idea, immediate trim press and release but depending on the users flight controls (e.g. low quality joystick and no rudder pedals), it may not be easily achievable. I'm definitely struggling with my cheap logi joystick, so sometimes I need to hold the trimmer just to see what the AP is trying to do.

 

One good advice when using said method of trimming is to trim often and in small increments so you don't experience sudden inputs by the AP.

[159th_Viper]

Has a real ka50 ever been flown that aggressively? :)

 

:)

 

Watch how he cranks it at low-level 4min in - Crazy Fun!

 

eq1kkvxAsd0

 

 

 

Do you have a similar demo with the control output on the screen? JUst out of curiosity.

 

Herewith track with view adjusted to see Cyclic and Rudder inputs as well as Input Window enabled.

 

Trim (1).trk

[Brainless]

How large of a correction are you trying to trim anyway? For me I was trying to do large corrections and was wildly tilting and pulling around. As soon as I started doing very small trims flight was so much smoother. Try multiple 2-5 degree trims rather than a 20-30 degree one maybe?

 

If you could post a track of what you're doing I think it would be the best way of figuring out how to get you the control you want.

 

I don't like the idea for small trims.

For short periods I prefer to hold down trimmer, which disable autopilot temporalily, and do desired maneuver. After this, I release trimmer and leave joystick and rudder pedals to center. This gives me smooth flight.

For longer periods I use FD mode.

[Bucic]

From simhq.com (BS Autopilot Article 1):

 

Pressing and immediate releasing trimmer, gives me a bump.

Confirmed and I haven't really solved it ever

forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=58145&highlight=bump

 

Normally I would advocate for slapping anyone talking about an individual flying style but with such issues present in dcs it wouldn't be fair.

[159th_Viper]

Strange one that - never had the 'bump', certainly not with a non-FFB stick where cyclic position is maintained after trim as opposed to centring. As stated above, probably also depends on fidelity of equipment utilized.

[Brainless]

Strange one that - never had the 'bump', certainly not with a non-FFB stick where cyclic position is maintained after trim as opposed to centring. As stated above, probably also depends on fidelity of equipment utilized.

 

It is not related to quality of the stick. I'm using CH Fighterstick.

Bump comes when pressing trimmer which disables autopilot suddenly.

[159th_Viper]

It is not related to quality of the stick. I'm using CH Fighterstick.

Bump comes when pressing trimmer which disables autopilot suddenly.

 

As I said - have never experienced that. Have a look at the track and video. If not the equipment then it just leaves user-input parameters as the possible culprit. As we all have our own techniques it will be nigh impossible to track the source of the issue.

[Brainless]

Confirmed and I haven't really solved it ever

forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=58145&highlight=bump

 

Normally I would advocate for slapping anyone talking about an individual flying style but with such issues present in dcs it wouldn't be fair.

 

Try this:

Before taking any maneuver, press and hold trimmer, do the maneuver, release trimmer. Check for bump.

[EtherealN]

It is not related to quality of the stick. I'm using CH Fighterstick.

Bump comes when pressing trimmer which disables autopilot suddenly.

 

Which means you were out of trim.

[159th_Viper]

Which means you were out of trim.

 

Precisely. It's the 'why' that's a bugger to ascertain.

[PeterP]

Sorry OT:

@ 159th_Viper and EtherealN

I was watching some of your posts lately -

You both should change your avatar:

:D

(please don't ask me who should be Statler and who Waldorf ...)

 

Edit- On Topic:

I don't know how this can be replicated on a non-FFB stick (some of you may already know this video - so apologies for reposting and get you bored):

 

Even if the Mi-17 doesn't have the same AP as the Ka-50 and this is a simulator session - I very often end up descending in the same style to Frap or ship in DCS.

 

So when you thought that trimming is something you do occasional and is not soo important to have a stable flightpath - you may reconsider your thoughts.

 

Before making a bigger direction changes: hold down trim - complete the manoeuvre - than release trim.

 

or

 

use smaller steps - means "blink" the trimmer often while changing direction.

 

Both methods represent RL procedures.

If a RL pilot wouldn't do it this way -he would also have to fight the sudden change in the spring-load of the cyclic.

And have the same difficulties you describe and loose precision.

Really don't know how this could be always done with a non-FFB stick.

 

So I really like what Bucic said:

Normally I would advocate for slapping anyone talking about an individual flying style but with such issues present in dcs it wouldn't be fair.

Edited November 29, 2011 by PeterP

[Brainless]

Which means you were out of trim.

I don't understand you very well, but this is what I mean:

Situation:

1. Flying straight. Perfectly trimmed. No inputs from controllers. Autopilot on.

2. Apply left rudder, to start yaw turn to the left. At this moment autopilot will apply right rudder (max to 20%) to counter heading change.

3. You apply more left rudder, autopilot loose the battle, but still hold 20% to right.

4. You press trimmer (which disables autpilot), autopilot release its 20% right rudder, and helicopter suddenly bump to the left.

[EtherealN]

I don't understand you very well, but this is what I mean:

Situation:

1. Flying straight. Perfectly trimmed. No inputs from controllers. Autopilot on.

2. Apply left rudder, to start yaw turn to the left. At this moment autopilot will apply right rudder (max to 20%) to counter heading change.

3. You apply more left rudder, autopilot loose the battle, but still hold 20% to right.

4. You press trimmer (which disables autpilot), autopilot release its 20% right rudder, and helicopter suddenly bump to the left.

 

Yes, that's what we mean - you are now having the AP exerting full authority BEFORE you press trimmer. Proper order in this case would be:

 

1. Flying straight. Perfectly trimmed. No inputs from controllers. Autopilot on.

2. Press and hold trimmer.

2. Apply left rudder, to start yaw turn to the left.

[159th_Viper]

I don't understand you very well, but this is what I mean:

Situation:

1. Flying straight. Perfectly trimmed. No inputs from controllers. Autopilot on.

2. Apply left rudder, to start yaw turn to the left. At this moment autopilot will apply right rudder (max to 20%) to counter heading change.

3. You apply more left rudder, autopilot loose the battle, but still hold 20% to right.

4. You press trimmer (which disables autpilot), autopilot release its 20% right rudder, and helicopter suddenly bump to the left.

 

Could you post a track?

 

Even consciously trying I cannot get the 'bump' you are experiencing.

[Brainless]

Yes, that's what we mean - you are now having the AP exerting full authority BEFORE you press trimmer. Proper order in this case would be:

 

1. Flying straight. Perfectly trimmed. No inputs from controllers. Autopilot on.

2. Press and hold trimmer.

2. Apply left rudder, to start yaw turn to the left.

 

And I always doing it this way.

And (back to the topic), my problem is:

When using CENTER POSITION TIMMER MODE, If inadvertently I release trimmer, and press it again, to be able to continue with the maneuver, without need to center controls first.

[Brainless]

Could you post a track?

 

Even consciously trying I cannot get the 'bump' you are experiencing.

I will try to post a track this night.

[Brainless]

Could you post a track?

 

Even consciously trying I cannot get the 'bump' you are experiencing.

One question:

Do you fly with FD Mode on?

With FD Mode on, you will not get the 'bump'.

[159th_Viper]

One question:

Do you fly with FD Mode on?

With FD Mode on, you will not get the 'bump'.

 

Have you watched the track/video?

 

When using CENTER POSITION TIMMER MODE, If inadvertently I release trimmer, and press it again, to be able to continue with the maneuver, without need to center controls first.

 

You have that already - untick the box.

 

As I said before, the ONLY difference between 'CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE' and no 'CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE' is the fact that with the former, you must re-centre your controls. With the latter, you do not need to centre your controls.

 

That is the only difference. As such, your request makes no sense. The feature is already catered for.

[Brainless]

Have you watched the track/video?

 

 

 

You have that already - untick the box.

 

As I said before, the ONLY difference between 'CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE' and no 'CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE' is the fact that with the former, you must re-centre your controls. With the latter, you do not need to centre your controls.

 

That is the only difference. As such, your request makes no sense. The feature is already catered for.

 

Yes, I watched the track, but only first half. I missed FD setting.

 

Hmm. What You say for TRIMMER mode slightly differs from what I think.

With former mode, You need to center controls, after releasing trimmer for predefined time. With the latter mode, you again must center controls, but this time SIM will disable control inputs, until rudder and stick are centered.

[159th_Viper]

Yes, I watched the track, but only first half. I missed FD setting.

 

Hmm. What You say for TRIMMER mode slightly differs from what I think......

 

I never use FD.

 

Watch the cyclic and rudder inputs again in the track. At no time do I centre the cyclic/rudder unless I want to, ie flight parameters dictate that I should. Again - you do not need to centre the controls.