Rudder pedals make me a better pilot?

[Username455]

Hey guys, another question for you :)

 

I currently use the x52 twist for rudder, although it isn't the easiest thing to use. So a lot of time I don't end up using it in turns. I'm not a pilot by any stretch haha, but using rudder correctly eliminates slip and conserves energy correct? Something like that?

 

So would having rudder pedals (probably the saitek ones) and learning to use them, help me out much in the air? Would you buy the rudder pedals over the twist rudder? (is it worth it) if it is, are the saitek ones a good choice?

 

Thanks!

[effte]

Yes, on all accounts. You need them for everything but fast jets, and the Saiteks are a nice piece of kit at a reasonable price.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I disagree. This is coming from someone who has pretty recently used both. If you go from twist to pedals you WILL have to learn to refly. You are more than likely using rudder whether you realize it or not when using a twist. After I went pedal I realized just how much I was inadvertently twisting the stick. Hit RCTRL ENTER on your keyboard and watch your rudder control on the orange HUD. I guarantee your inadvertently using rudder.

 

On the other side sometimes when I am really concentrating on something I am holding down the rudder pedals and don't even realize it (its easy to do when you trim rudder on the KA-50). I just get so laser focused I kind of forget. I never had that problem with a twist.

 

So to me it is more natural control (stick) vs greater control and being more realistic (pedals).

Edited January 21, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[joey45]

I agree with QuckSilver..

[44th_Rooster]

Just remember rudders can be a integral part of any airframe. So for someone to say that fast jets don't need them etc... is not completely correct, However I do realize that it is less usage in different areas. If you learn how to fly properly then the most challenging thing for you to learn should be the muscle memory and proper application. If you fly the fast jets and you have any questions I will answer them for you via private messaging etc...

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

Edited January 21, 2012 by 44th_Rooster

[cichlidfan]

OK, since we are on the subject. Appology for the slight derailment.

 

When flying the A-10, how much does anyone use the rudder pedals in flight?

 

Myself, I find the pedals easier in terms of keeping my rudder input from changing while moving the stick. Keep in mind, I am a lousy pilot and I use the pedals mostly in other sims/less high tech aircraft.

[44th_Rooster]

Personally I use the rudders at all times in fixed wing anything....in A-10C I use them slightly during rolls and low-level flying sharp turns, and especially x-wind landings.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

[effte]

Quicksilver,

yes, you are likely to apply rudder all the time when using a twist stick. I think this is the first time I’ve seen that mentioned as a positive though. It is usually considered one of the big drawbacks of the concept - you'll inadvertently be inputting rudder commands as you bank/pitch.

 

Going from one to the other means relearning – no surprise there.

 

Fast jets need them. However, you don’t need them to fly fast jet simulators. I’d hate to do without them, to the point that I’d probably park my virtual F-16 while waiting for a replacement should they break, but flying is essentially feet off from line up to landing, so they’re nice to have rather than need to have.

 

In the A-10, I use them all the time. It’s got adverse yaw when banking, it needs rudder to coordinate turns and it’s great fun to side slip the aircraft in to a landing. Finally, you need them for crosswind landings.

 

Cheers,

Fred

[Daze]

I use the twist feature on the X52 Pro and find it a nuisance as it is hard to be accurate and I always apply yaw by accident.

[Username455]

Well obviously I use the twist rudder for nose wheel steering, and I also use it for gun runs (although I read somewhere you aren't supposed to do that?) but what I don't use rudder for is turns. In cross wind landings I will use rudder, but sometimes I just roll the aircraft into the wind instead. And I agree that I would have to relearn using rudder with my feet, but I also notice it is hard to twist the rudder axis without adding pitch or roll.

 

Do most people with rudder pedals use them constantly, with every turn, landing, gun run etc? Are they worth $100+

 

Thanks for the replies

[effte]

Yes, they are utterly worth it if you fly anything other than F-16s.

 

Uncoordinate flight during gun runs will screw up your aim. The bullets will not hit where you are aiming. That goes both ways, thouh. If you are flying uncoordinated due to lack of pedals, your aim will also be off.

 

You can use the rudder to "hose" a target though, mainly during strafing.

 

Definitely worth it. You will never want to go back. I can't really see myself flying without pedals, but I could see myself flying without TrackIR, to put it into perspective.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Username455 trust me, you are using the twist function more than you think. It is just that it is so natural and second nature to do it you do not even think about it. Make a track you will see what I mean. When you go to pedals all the sudden it is not so natural anymore. Maybe it becomes that way in time but after 5 months or so flying with pedals it does not feel natural to me yet. Do I have more control..... you bet. It is easier to do purposeful things but when I am just flying "off the cuff" it is much harder.

 

I would request and most appreciate you coming back to this thread after you get your pedals and share your experience with us. I suspect after you get them you will realize just how much you were actually using the twist function.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Devrim]

I'm sorry, I think, I interrupt. But, how about helicopters?

 

You say "don't even mention it?" or can we discuss about necessity pedals for Ka-50?

 

I'm about to buy Saitek pedals. But I'm not sure if I should get it or not...

[PoleCat]

Rudders are needed, and authentic floor models are better then a twist stick IMHO.

 

Absolutely needed for the KA50.

 

Out

[Username455]

Without changing the topic too much, is there a YouTube video or guide on how to effectively use the rudder? If I need to relearn using rudders, I should probably know what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

And quicksilver, thank you for your honest input.. You are keeping me from blindly buying haha. I will pay attention to my current rudder usage and let you know what happens. But my goal is to fly as realistically as possible, which got me interested in the first place. Really wish I could find a flight school nearby so I knew what I was doing haha

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I'm sorry, I think, I interrupt. But, how about helicopters?

 

You say "don't even mention it?" or can we discuss about necessity pedals for Ka-50?

 

I'm about to buy Saitek pedals. But I'm not sure if I should get it or not...

 

I was speaking specifically about the Ka-50 actually.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Username455 I frequently play with an actual helicopter pilot. He told me that in real life when you are flying forward at speed you actually don't have to use rudder that much because there is kind of a weather vane effect. The air rushing past the helicopter help to keep it aligned. Rudder is mostly for lower speed to counter torque (not a problem in a Ka-50) and to rotate the helicopter.

 

The following is my opinion.

For fixed wings it is a bit different. Your flying the aircraft as a whole. They have wings that are attached to the aircraft. I don't think fixed wing get the weather vane effect. Whereas in a helo your actually flying the roter not the aircraft as a whole. The roter is just kind of dragging the helicopter body along. That is why you get the weather vane effect.

 

Using only rotor at hover = rotates aircraft

Using cyclic at forward speed = like turning a car

Using cyclic AND rudder at forward speed = doing a sliding turn (drifting)

Edited January 22, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[Devrim]

I got my Saitek Rudder Pedals today. In first fly, my muscle memory didn't allow me to use pedals properly. :)

 

I'll need to re-program my reflexes. I'll share the rest later. :)

[Hamblue]

I got my Saitek Rudder Pedals today. In first fly, my muscle memory didn't allow me to use pedals properly. :)

 

I'll need to re-program my reflexes. I'll share the rest later. :)

It will take at least a few weeks to fully get used to them.

Spend some time on the ground steering and you will get the feel a little faster. Also play around with the axis settings. Adding some curve helps for some people.

[Devrim]

It will take at least a few weeks to fully get used to them.

Spend some time on the ground steering and you will get the feel a little faster. Also play around with the axis settings. Adding some curve helps for some people.

 

Thanks Hamblue. You're right.

 

Now, I can hardly aim to target while flying (without Shkval). I have no accuracy skill nowadays. :)

 

As you say, I have a couple weeks... :noexpression:

[Deadman]

Rudder pedals don't make you a better pilot. but they do give yo the proper tools to pilot an aircraft once you maintain coordinated flight you will kick your self for not getting them sooner