DCS P51 must be expanded!

[6S.Duke]

IMO FW-190 D can be the a good opponent if you want another prop-plane (eg i'd like to have another prop-plane)... if you would like to have a jet aircraft, the better choise is the ME-262...

[Wolf Rider]

 

The Battle of Britain was one of the greatest aerial combat theatres in history! Not P51 missions where you escort bombers!

 

 

" In early 1944, General James Doolittle told the fighters to stop flying in formation with the bombers and instead attack the Luftwaffe wherever it could be found. The Mustang groups were sent in before the bombers and could hunt the German fighters while they were forming up. The results were astonishing; in a short period of just over a week, the Luftwaffe lost 17% of its fighter pilots.[19] As Doolittle later noted, "Adolf Galland said that the day we took our fighters off the bombers and put them against the German fighters, that is, went from defensive to offensive, Germany lost the air war."[20]

The Luftwaffe answer was the Gefechtsverband (battle formation). It consisted of a Sturmgruppe of heavily armed and armored Fw 190s escorted by two Begleitgruppen of light fighters, often Bf 109Gs, whose task was to keep the Mustangs away from the Fw 190s attacking the bombers. This scheme was excellent in theory but difficult to apply in practice. The large German formation took a long time to assemble and was difficult to maneuver. It was often intercepted by the escorting P-51s and broken before reaching the bombers; when the Sturmgruppe worked, the effects were devastating. With their engines and cockpits heavily armored, the Fw 190s attacked from astern and gun camera films show that these attacks were often pressed to within 100 yds.[21]

While not always successful in avoiding contact with the escorts, the threat of mass attacks and later the "company front" (eight abreast) assaults by armored Sturmgruppe Fw 190s, brought an urgency to attacking the Luftwaffe wherever it could be found. Beginning in late February 1944, 8th Air Force fighter units began systematic strafing attacks on German airfields with increasing frequency and intensity throughout the spring, with the objective of gaining air supremacy over the Normandy battlefield. In general, these were conducted by units returning from escort missions but beginning in March, many groups also were assigned airfield attacks instead of bomber support. The P-51, particularly with the advent of the K-14 Gyro gunsight and the development of "Clobber Colleges" for the training of fighter pilots in fall 1944, was a decisive element in Allied countermeasures against the Jagdverbände.

The numerical superiority of the USAAF fighters, superb flying characteristics of the P-51 and pilot proficiency helped cripple the Luftwaffe's fighter force. As a result, the fighter threat to US and later British bombers, was greatly diminished by July 1944. Reichmarshal Hermann Göring, commander of the German Luftwaffe during the war was quoted as saying, "When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up."[22][23] "

Wiki

[ZaltysZ]

P51 expands well when MK108 hits it :devil_2:

[Bearitall]

Not P51 missions where you escort bombers!

 

Whaaaaaat?

 

You are kidding me right..what you think the P-51D just stay along side the bombers in formation and watch the FW-109's shoot down the bombers..geez..

 

The P-51D Mustang fighter pilots engaged enemy aircraft when they are in the area to protect the bombers...my god man..get a grip...on it...:music_whistling:

[Phantom88]

Currently TFC has four of my favorites,I'd be Happy with anything that has a tail hook:thumbup:

F8F Bearcat

F4U Corsair

F6F HellCat

F4F WildCat

[Opoch]

An Me-262 sim would be so cool! :pilotfly:

[hitman]

Flying Pancake. 'nuff said.

[elchacal]

IMHO before another WWII airplane, I prefer see finished the next fixed wing aircraft jet in the DCS series!

[q800]

IMHO before another WWII airplane, I prefer see finished the next fixed wing aircraft jet in the DCS series!

 

Second that. Maybe within next 8 years we will see somenthing like that, and it will be probably another shiny toy for hamburgers completely out of context in terms of DCS series.

[Bearitall]

Originally Posted by elchacal

IMHO before another WWII airplane, I prefer see finished the next fixed wing aircraft jet in the DCS series!

 

 

Second that. Maybe within next 8 years we will see somenthing like that, and it will be probably another shiny toy for hamburgers completely out of context in terms of DCS series.

 

Why the whining guys its a done deal the P-51D Mustang is almost done..

 

I'll buy you some tissue's for crying...:music_whistling::megalol:

[ErichVon]

I think DCS should expand the portfolio for this WWII game.

 

While the P51 is a good plane, WWII had many other fantastic aircraft!

 

> Supermarine Spitfire

> Messerschmitt ME109

> Focke-Wulf Fw 190

 

The Battle of Britain was one of the greatest aerial combat theatres in history! Not P51 missions where you escort bombers!

 

Hi, (Interestingly, sometimes, like now, when I reply, everything is in HTML code and other times, not. What gives?) You build this sucker and sell it, I will buy it. For a taste of a semi-arcade P-51 in actual simulated combat go to: http://hitechcreations.com/ 1st 2 weeks are free. Offline is always free. Free download. $15 per month. Server is always on 24/7 unless problems, which is rare. Texas, USA. I have heard stated here to DCS forums, just one plane is a 100,000 man hours to develop. How many guys are programming the P-51? Any other requests for planes, you guys volunteering your free time? I know some guys do this. I just hope DCS goes on and on and the USA stays relatively friendly with Russia OR I just may have to relocate. LOL! (Hopefully, this reply will be in paragraphs as I intended it.)

[ErichVon]

An Me-262 sim would be so cool! :pilotfly:

 

Darn plane is fragile. The wings rip off in a relatively low G dive upon going back up. Aces High WWII aerial combat sim has one of these, though outrageously perked. Landing it is rather interesting. They also have a WWII dual jet bomber and the hydrazine fueled rocket plane. They do have a training area where all planes in non-combat mode are free of perk purchases, for those planes that are perked. I do wish DCS had a central server like Aces High does with a scoring system, but that is asking a lot. You guys have my total attention currently, all I fly is DCS or FC2. http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ahss/full/me262-takeoff.jpg

Edited April 19, 2012 by ErichVon

[ErichVon]

Currently TFC has four of my favorites,I'd be Happy with anything that has a tail hook:thumbup:

F8F Bearcat

F4U Corsair

F6F HellCat

F4F WildCat

 

In reality, the Wildcat was very early WWII and severely outclassed by the same era Zero. All 4 aircraft mentioned were mostly CV based (aircraft carriers) and only the later F4U versions even came close to the performance characteristics of the P-51D. The issue in a simulation environment is putting like era planes and the planes that flew in certain only theaters of combat to fight together in a simulation. Not like Aces High does it. Me, too, anything with a tailhook is great. But I am not complaining.

[Double_D]

Here is a Few

 

Texas Flying Legends..

 

 

Re-Enactment of Doolittle Raid

 

 

Horsemen and B25 Doolittle Re-Enactment

 

 

Would love to have these in DCS addon's

[Phantom88]

In reality, the Wildcat was very early WWII and severely outclassed by the same era Zero. All 4 aircraft mentioned were mostly CV based (aircraft carriers) and only the later F4U versions even came close to the performance characteristics of the P-51D. The issue in a simulation environment is putting like era planes and the planes that flew in certain only theaters of combat to fight together in a simulation. Not like Aces High does it. Me, too, anything with a tailhook is great. But I am not complaining.

 

I'll give you the F4F was a early WWII Aircraft and would be outclassed by the Stang,But The HellCat and BearCat??? I think they'd be very worthy opponents!!:thumbup:

[ErichVon]

I'll give you the F4F was a early WWII Aircraft and would be outclassed by the Stang,But The HellCat and BearCat??? I think they'd be very worthy opponents!!:thumbup:

 

I live about 90 minutes away from the Scranton/Wilkes Barre, PA, USA airport. I was to their big mixed civilian/military airshow about a year before the 1st Iraq War. They had, air worthy, flyable, WWII aircraft flying together. Heck, like the Blue Angels F-18s that were there, configured properly, all of them could fly just a hair above the F-18's stall speed, together.

 

The Hellcat in Aces High is fun to fly combat with, but in no way, as Aces High models it, does it even come close to a P-51, but performance at various altitudes, per machine does vary. All these aircraft have their quirky personalities. Fly stupid, you will die.

 

Whether a B-17 actually could really ever get to 37,000 feet in WWII, I don't know. In Aces High, I go in to target very high, and regress even higher. Few aircraft can even get that high, let alone still perform fairly well. The P-51 can, the P-47, most Spits, and a later version FW-190 derivative. But it really gets down to the ability of the pilot, his PC setup, ping rate, and his ISP. I think the USA FCC caps the ISP online speeds to 30 GB. I have heard France has the highest and the guy guru here to DCS Ether-however-it-is-spelled says he runs at 100 GB---how can I compete with that online? My DSL does not even run at 4 GB download speed.

 

It is all good. I will gladly buy anything DCS wants to create.

 

DCS---just stay in business, stay profitable!

 

I played Aces High two nights ago. I played 12 hours straight. Fun! But I rarely fly there anymore. I fly and die, here! LOL!

Edited April 27, 2012 by ErichVon

[element1108]

Second that. Maybe within next 8 years we will see somenthing like that, and it will be probably another shiny toy for hamburgers completely out of context in terms of DCS series.

 

You're out of context :music_whistling:

 

;)

 

I'm a dcs enthusiast, but see some context of the p51...not in the 100% realistic bar nothing context...but the context of a combat sim that gets played on a computer at home.

 

Just because you can't see or understand the direction doesn't mean it's wrong? Does it?

Edited April 27, 2012 by element1108

[mmaruda]

I think it has been said several times. There is a huge problem with having the P-51 in DCS. Many people here want the next fast mover, and it still hasn't been announced. Also there are a lot of problem with DCS engine, and the devs are silent (IL-2 1946 gets updates more often than DCS! seriously!).

 

So now we are to get the Mustang... No fast mover, no Neveda still. Personally I am all in when it comes to WWII planes with high fidelity modeling since there is no study-sim for that branch (unles you count FSX addons). But the main problem with these warbirds is that they are... you guessed it! Warbirds! They are meant for fighting, not sightseeing and in the current setting there are no comparable opponents. While it seems obvious that when Nevada gets released we'll probably see some Reno Air Racing, a combat plane needs combat.

 

If after the realease ED will state that they intend to make other WWII planes and another map for them and the releases will come say on a yearly basis, then I'll buy the Pony. But if it's just a quick cash grab, I'll learn to play Starcraft 2 pro-level sooner, than I'll buy something DCS again.

[Nate--IRL--]

But if it's just a quick cash grab ......

 

Cash grab? Quick?

 

Nate

[GGTharos]

There is a huge problem with having the P-51 in DCS.

 

No, there is not.

 

Many people here want the next fast mover, and it still hasn't been announced. Also there are a lot of problem with DCS engine, and the devs are silent (IL-2 1946 gets updates more often than DCS! seriously!).

 

DCS updates are pretty significant, and further, DCS is just taking off now.

 

They are meant for fighting, not sightseeing and in the current setting there are no comparable opponents. While it seems obvious that when Nevada gets released we'll probably see some Reno Air Racing, a combat plane needs combat.

 

I'd say other P-51's are pretty comparable. There's also plenty of ground targets to shoot at.

 

If after the realease ED will state that they intend to make other WWII planes and another map for them and the releases will come say on a yearly basis, then I'll buy the Pony. But if it's just a quick cash grab, I'll learn to play Starcraft 2 pro-level sooner, than I'll buy something DCS again.

 

What - the P-51 is a 'quick cash grab' but fees for playing SC2 aren't? I don't get your logic. If you don't like the P-51 that's fine. If you don't like that there's no Fw-190 or Me-109 to fight, that's fine as well. Accusations of 'quick cash grabs' on the other hand are silly. It costs money to develop an aircraft sim, and lots of it. What exactly do you mean by 'quick cash grab'?

Further, there's plenty of people looking forward to this P-51 simulation, too. What comes in the future is another matter.

[ErichVon]

I think it has been said several times. There is a huge problem with having the P-51 in DCS. Many people here want the next fast mover, and it still hasn't been announced. Also there are a lot of problem with DCS engine, and the devs are silent (IL-2 1946 gets updates more often than DCS! seriously!).

 

So now we are to get the Mustang... No fast mover, no Neveda still. Personally I am all in when it comes to WWII planes with high fidelity modeling since there is no study-sim for that branch (unles you count FSX addons). But the main problem with these warbirds is that they are... you guessed it! Warbirds! They are meant for fighting, not sightseeing and in the current setting there are no comparable opponents. While it seems obvious that when Nevada gets released we'll probably see some Reno Air Racing, a combat plane needs combat.

 

If after the realease ED will state that they intend to make other WWII planes and another map for them and the releases will come say on a yearly basis, then I'll buy the Pony. But if it's just a quick cash grab, I'll learn to play Starcraft 2 pro-level sooner, than I'll buy something DCS again.

 

To quiet the complainers, I would like to see how much work it takes to get any DCS aircraft out of the Beta and into "production" prior to the inevitable 1st patch. I heard one guru here say it takes 100,000 hours. I would love to see the pages upon pages upon pages of the source code.

 

How much work is entailed to get this Nevada landscape?

 

What does that entail?

 

I know the industrial machine shop trade. Going from an idea, to sketch, to drawings, testing, prototype to production is a really big deal and expensive. Just getting the patent is very expensive. I can sidestep a lot of that as to making a repair part, just give me the part.

 

I want this, I want that...

 

That's easy to say.

 

I remember back with my Commodore 64, I typed in a magazine's article program. 4 hours of typing in code, another 4 hours fixing typos to get a 5 second program to run in BASIC.

 

The job to create any aircraft in a sim must be a huge undertaking.

 

I'd get the P-51 just to get a chance to start it up the way it was done for real in WWII and not just hit the letter "E" and off I go. I bet taxiing it and take-off will be interesting, too.

Edited April 27, 2012 by ErichVon

[EtherealN]

Well ErichVon, don't make the mistake of thinking that more work = more source code. In fact, if programmers were paid in the way freelance journalists are (by lines) you'd get crap software - more is usually not better. The goal in programming is to do as much as possible with as little as possible.

 

Where the size of the codebase comes in is that whenever you want to change something, you need to deal with a huge amount of code where no single individual can ever know what all of it does. So getting the right man to the right job is important - you can think of it like a major industry; no engineer will be intimately familiar with every step of the process. This also means that if you have a LOT of work to do on one machine, but nothing on the others, you can't just take all the other guys you have and have them help - they'd first have to be trained. (In a sense it can be illustrated with the question: making a woman pregnant means she'll give birth in 9 months, but making 9 women pregnant doesn't mean one of them will give birth every month for 9 months...)

[Bearitall]

I'd get the P-51 just to get a chance to start it up the way it was done for real in WWII and not just hit the letter "E" and off I go. I bet taxiing it and take-off will be interesting, too.

 

The P-51D torque's to the left..:thumbup:

[mmaruda]

You can all say what you want, but from a customer perspective I don't care how for the coding issues and how hard it is to make a plane sim. The market world is simple, you make a product, set a price, if people consider it worth it, they will buy it.

 

Now with A-10 and Black Shark we get the full package - a theater, campaigns, training missions and all. Now comes the Mustang - 40 bucks and we just get the plane, completely out of its historical context. No promise of further development, and a "challenge campaign" (probably flying through pylons and shooting at balloons). Compared to the previous sims by ED, this does not feel like a complete product worth the full price.

 

PS SC2 does not have any fees to play.

[NineLine]

They have stated many times about the possibilities of future development from 3rd parties and possibly ED themselves, they just have been vary vague about tools and such.