Will you buy FC3

[EtherealN]

I just dislike stating the good old "when its done."

 

That's because you're doing it wrong.

 

It's supposed to be:

 

When it's done™

[shagrat]

if you are worried about sales just add all modern U.S planes along with half way decently

accurate cockpits for each jet & watch your sales go threw the roof.

 

you will not be concerned with such trivial things as paying bills & making ends meet again :)

That's already available. It's called HAWX or Janes Advanced Strike Fighters... oh wait it is missing the SIM aspect, but they sell quite well. :D

 

No offense meant, but honestly, you might have noticed that most of the people around DCS are craving for anything MORE simlike or realistic than HAWX or Janes ASF.

FC3 is still discussed as being "inferior" and not up to DCS-Standard, but I personally hope it will not attract lots of kiddies fond of roaming the sky for "killshots", wether the enemy or their own. :huh:

[MadMonkey]

That's already available. It's called HAWX or Janes Advanced Strike Fighters... oh wait it is missing the SIM aspect, but they sell quite well. :D

 

No offense meant, but honestly, you might have noticed that most of the people around DCS are craving for anything MORE simlike or realistic than HAWX or Janes ASF.

FC3 is still discussed as being "inferior" and not up to DCS-Standard,

 

 

 

Your Argument is Invalid

 

just because it was done before in another simulator doesn't mean it should be excluded from this particular game engine..

 

some of us are looking to find the right balance in simulators between a playable sim

due to hardware restrictions or other graphical limits or in game play feel.

 

I enjoy this engine because it's "Graphically' in the middle between janes f18 graphics or total air war

and Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X wich is basically a graphical overload console game for kids..

 

I uninstalled it like 10 mins after playing it & threw it in the garbage pale.

 

no offense taken but that's your opinion to only include things like p51's mixed with

mostly Russian aircraft? wouldn't you find it strange not to include any capable targets?

 

or would you rather just shoot down p-51's with migs & su's?

 

but I personally hope it will not attract lots of kiddies fond of roaming the sky for "killshots", wether the enemy or their own. :huh:

 

fyi I am near 40 and I have played along side some 16 year olds that can out

ace maneuver the best of us.. your stereotyping is complete ignorance:doh:

 

what you should be more concerned with is popularity attracting cheat hackers

Edited August 20, 2012 by =MadMonkey=

[SgtPappy]

Don't be so hard on the guy. He was stating an observation. Mainly that he notices that MOST people crave DCS. You and I may not be included in that demographic.

 

Also his comment about hoping it will not attract "kiddies who like roaming for killshots" does not include the amazing 16 year old flyers to whom you refer. It is a fact that there ARE kiddies who do this, and the majority of them are young "kiddies". How many older people around your age do you see playing HAWX in the way shagrat mentions?

 

So please, just try not to be so arrogant. I can be like that too :P

[MadMonkey]

Don't be so hard on the guy.

 

oh I wasn't, just making some dfwm son points.. :D

 

Also his comment about hoping it will not attract "kiddies

 

yeah i just got that..lack of communication on my part.

 

so in response to understanding what he meant now..

 

Although I too hate childish acts such as team killers I highly doubt preteens will wonder

into complexive sims just for immature trolol kicks..they have quicker access to arma2 &

cod games for that crap & hopefully it will stay that way.

 

So please, just try not to be so arrogant. I can be like that too :P

 

pilots are just like that it can't be helped :megalol:

[Pyroflash]

 

Although I too hate childish acts such as team killers I highly doubt preteens will wonder

into complexive sims just for immature trolol kicks..they have quicker access to arma2 &

cod games for that crap & hopefully it will stay that way.

 

Honestly, you'd be surprised. It's not about quick access. The kids want to be in complex simulators because it makes them feel like they are doing something awesome and important. However, once they've played for 15 minutes and get frustrated at their own inability to kill things, they resort to cheap thrills to satisfy their lust for carnage. Usually this turns into Tking, or worse, hacking.

 

pilots are just like that it can't be helped :megalol:

Pilots are a smart bunch, so usually their tricks are of a more complex practical nature such as making a hat out of a refueling basket to give to the guy who accidentally broke it during training. :D

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I am 35 years old and own DCS Blackshark (1/2), DCS A-10C, DCS P51, and Flaming Cliffs 2. I also enjoy playing HAWX. For you to imply only "kiddies" enjoy these types of games and only short attention span people play them is ridiculous.

 

DCS and HAWX are just like any other game. They offer a unique experience. For those of you that offer the argument that DCS is a sim I offer this counterpoint, a lot of video software has been called a sim in the past. If you played those today you would not call them a sim anymore. You would call them a game. One day software and possibly hardware will advance enough that we will call DCS a "game".

 

Examples of sims slipping into games

Flight Simulator 1.0 compared to FSX

Silent Hunter 1 compared to Silent Hunter 3

FC A-10A compared to FC A-10C

 

At one time all of these were called simulators.

[EtherealN]

QuickSilver - the difference between a "simulator" and a "game" isn't so much in what they actually do, it's what they do compared to what is possible. If the game aims to do things as realistically as is possible at the time it's a "sim", if it's design is aimed more at "fun" then it's a "game".

 

However, of course, a "sim" is ALSO a "game" if you play it for entertainment. Personally, I feel that the meaningful distinction between the two lie in what the user does. If you play DCS to "blow stuff up", you're playing a game. If you play DCS to "learn how this plane works", you're playing a simulator. Similarly with FC - if you play it to blow stuff up, game, if you play it to learn about how air combat works, simulator.

[shagrat]

... Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X wich is basically a graphical overload console game for kids..

 

I uninstalled it like 10 mins after playing it & threw it in the garbage pale.

 

no offense taken but that's your opinion to only include things like p51's mixed with

mostly Russian aircraft? wouldn't you find it strange not to include any capable targets?

 

or would you rather just shoot down p-51's with migs & su's?

 

 

no, I totally agree, but one at a time and to DCS standard is preferred to 10 US Jets, badly modeled systems-wise! Another point would be balance. Say we get beczl's MIG-21 at DCS standard and the F-22 on FC3 standard. That would be not easy to balance in a mission I guess.

fyi I am near 40 and I have played along side some 16 year olds that can out

ace maneuver the best of us.. your stereotyping is complete ignorance:doh:

 

what you should be more concerned with is popularity attracting cheat hackers

 

Yeah, that means you are about a year younger than me :D

As others already pointed out, I was voicing my personal expectations which are sourced on some experiences gathered over time.

I agree, that there are people of every age capable of 'behaving' on a multiplayer server, but some, especially of a lesser age, don't.

At times I flew a bit on FC2 public servers and it happens that just one or two 'kiddies' rampaging and throwing missiles at everything that moves spoiled the whole session.

With planes from FC3 it is quite easy to track, lock and shoot with just a few button presses...

I know the Mission designer may prevent the use of any plane, but it is not why we want planes like the MIG-29, SU-27 or the F-15C in DCS World, if we need to exclude them in mission design.

 

I guess time will tell and hopefully we don't see too many aggressive acts of rampage on the servers :)

Edited August 25, 2012 by shagrat

[ZQuickSilverZ]

EtherealN I think all ED customers who purchase DCS titles purchase them with the intent of entertainment (military version aside). Though many make the purchase, see how involved it is, then give up.

Edited August 26, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[Frostie]

With planes from FC3 it is quite easy to track, lock and shoot with just a few button presses...

I'm not sure what you're expecting different from DCS in this department, maybe we could pedal to keep the radar running? :P

[shagrat]

I'm not sure what you're expecting different from DCS in this department, maybe we could pedal to keep the radar running? :P

:lol: no, thanks. I was referring to the difference between DCS sim mode and the more simple operations of FC2 planes.

Let's compare Shkval and Vikhr in DCS World: Blackshark module to Shkval and Vikhr in the DCS World: SU-25T module.

To track and lock a target in Sim mode the Ka-50 pilot needs to visually acquire the target, track it with eyeballs until he can slew the Shkval on it. Then through adjusting the tracking gate, he can get a lock and after aligning Shkval and launcher he may shoot the Vikhr at the target.

Now with the SU-25T it is much easier. Select Vikhr, hit 'next target' button until the correct target has the lock diamond, adjust the Vikhr reticule over the tracking diamond, lock and fire...

 

If we start blue vs. red missions with SU-25T this in my point of view is an advantage? So mission designers need to balance that somehow...

[Nate--IRL--]

To track and lock a target in Sim mode the Ka-50 pilot needs to visually acquire the target, track it with eyeballs until he can slew the Shkval on it. Then through adjusting the tracking gate, he can get a lock and after aligning Shkval and launcher he may shoot the Vikhr at the target.

Now with the SU-25T it is much easier. Select Vikhr, hit 'next target' button until the correct target has the lock diamond, adjust the Vikhr reticule over the tracking diamond, lock and fire...

 

If we start blue vs. red missions with SU-25T this in my point of view is an advantage? So mission designers need to balance that somehow...

 

It is mission designers that have to place that diamond you mention. Many Missions do not have it. The Vikhr implementation for the Su-25T and the Ka-50 are actually very very similar.

 

Nate

[shagrat]

It is mission designers that have to place that diamond you mention. Many Missions do not have it. The Vikhr implementation for the Su-25T and the Ka-50 are actually very very similar.

 

Nate

Ok, I didn't know, yet. Just did the quick start missions to have a look at the Frog... so when the mission, does not support 'next target' button, you actually have to aim like you do in the Shark?

That is a big relieve on my side :thumbup:

I guess the rest with the 'simplistic' advanced flight model is not to far from DCS in terms of handling.

I was just afraid of SU-25Ts roaming over the battlefield and taking out blue armor like in FC2, while KA-50s and A-10s have a more challenging job to do.

 

I am eager to see the implementation of radar in FC3, then. :music_whistling: Ground clutter to hide from the birds of prey in an A-10 or Frog???

[Krebs20]

I've never seen a mission in online play where a mission editor enabled this option. The toad will always be out paced by an A-10 or Ka-50 pilot of equal skill in kills on target. Unless there a very long flight to target. The toad hauls add in that race.

As for the topic. It not "will" I buy, but "when" I buy. I need to throw some money at you ED. Come on!

[EtherealN]

EtherealN I think all ED customers who purchase DCS titles purchase them with the intent of entertainment (military version aside). Though many make the purchase, see how involved it is, then give up.

 

Well, there's a difference between "entertainment" and "blow stuff up".

 

My "entertainment" in DCS is specifically to learn the bird. I couldn't care less if I get to blow something up once a minute or more; I'm in this to learn how stuff works. That is where I get my "entertainment". Other people get their entertainment from "blowing stuff up" specifically. This is a key difference.

 

Obviously, most people enjoy both - at least most people that purchase DCS products. The important thing in the distinction is what their main motivation is.

 

For example, I have an older half-brother that, when he visits my place, always asks "hey, got a new simulator you can show me?" Obviously, I approve of his simulator interest, but his "entertainment" is specifically in the DCS damage model. (He has spent hours on end finding creative ways of flying a Black Shark with half rotors, for example.) He is not at all interested in learning combat, or learning to "fly it like the pros". Thus, for him, this is a "game", not a "simulator". Another example is my Step2 flight instructor, who I showed BS1 back then, and his interest was specicially to figure out how the thing worked. For him, it is a simulator.

 

See my point?

[Pyroflash]

EtherealN I think all ED customers who purchase DCS titles purchase them with the intent of entertainment (military version aside). Though many make the purchase, see how involved it is, then give up.

 

This is not true. Many may use it as a preparation or learning tool, in which case it would cease being a purely entertainment oriented product. Though I would agree with you in that the vast majority of customers probably don't have any vested interest in real life military piloting.

[monotwix]

Ok, I didn't know, yet. Just did the quick start missions to have a look at the Frog... so when the mission, does not support 'next target' button, you actually have to aim like you do in the Shark?

That is a big relieve on my side :thumbup:

I guess the rest with the 'simplistic' advanced flight model is not to far from DCS in terms of handling.

I was just afraid of SU-25Ts roaming over the battlefield and taking out blue armor like in FC2, while KA-50s and A-10s have a more challenging job to do.

 

I am eager to see the implementation of radar in FC3, then. :music_whistling: Ground clutter to hide from the birds of prey in an A-10 or Frog???

 

 

I do realise that it was your reply to another post, however since you’ve mentioned a quick start to have a look at the Frog, I recommend that you to fly SU-25T campaign in DCSW to see what it’s like.

[EtherealN]

Having a vested interest is however not required for the "classification". You don't have to be on-track towards being a military pilot to use a piece of software towards learning stuff about the life of a military pilot.

[monotwix]

I agree.

[Jona33]

Why do people forget that the Su-25T was given an AFM, and in those terms it's equal between russia and the usa.

[element1108]

Well, I would still pay for it since it is the only way to make sure FC is up to date and able to connect with the latest DCS. But I have to say that I am not thrilled to pay for it. Mainly due that once again ED has left eastern aircrafts out in the cold in terms of upgrade. Once again only F-15C has received upgrade like back when FC2 were released. I would be really happy if the eastern aircrafts can receive the same treatments, start with the Flanker.

 

I wouldn't say left out in the cold as of yet. We don't know the details of fc3, just those stated by wags and e has hinted there is more (left until release to confirm). The new model and cockpit in the grand scheme of things is a facelift, the landing and takeoff dynamics for all birds is huge. Also hints at possible fm upgrades.

 

Regardless I don't understand all this premature talk. Its always best to hold off judgement until the product is released and you get all the info to form your opinions. All to often people write a manifesto of why the price is wrong or what features are missing when they don have all the info. You can't make a conclusion on anything until you know exactly what you're concluding.

 

I will be buying it personally, it's a no brainer for me.

 

Ed has made leaps and bounds in the last 5 years many other companies (fighter ops, jet thunder and even Cliffs of Dover) have failed to live up to their hype. There will be growing pains, but the end result is like nothing in a combat sim currently.

[Kuky]

At least Cliffs of Dover is actually released and they are ipmroving it... as for FighterOPS... what a joke that "project" was/is... to think about, how much money people paid for that Area51? What a joke.

[ErichVon]

Will you buy FC3?

 

I got a gut feeling, though I have not read or heard anything, yet, that the VNAO's Stallturn server and the Phoenix server will be modifying their setups to include FC3, so I will have no choice to purchase it sooner than I wanted to. Both servers have not been up for a few days so I am guessing they are reworking them.

 

If in fact this is not a beta, but final release, then what the heck, I'll get it in a few days most likely.

 

My DSL broadband speed is a bit slow. The DCS multiplayer in the lower ping rates below 250 have me running pretty good compared to other servers I have tried. My limited multiplayer experience lately with the FSX servers have not been very good. So I will be sticking with DCS online and hope World is going to be great.

 

I just purchased a Logitech G510 keyboard with 54 programmable G-keys to offset the necessity to set additional buttons instead of multiple keystroke commands. The older Microprose sims included cardboard keyboard cutout overlays which I will be trying some ideas to make.

[shagrat]

Regardless I don't understand all this premature talk. Its always best to hold off judgement until the product is released and you get all the info to form your opinions. All to often people write a manifesto of why the price is wrong or what features are missing when they don have all the info. You can't make a conclusion on anything until you know exactly what you're concluding.

 

I will be buying it personally, it's a no brainer for me.

 

Ed has made leaps and bounds in the last 5 years many other companies (fighter ops, jet thunder and even Cliffs of Dover) have failed to live up to their hype. There will be growing pains, but the end result is like nothing in a combat sim currently.

+1

 

like always everyone complains about features they miss, prices too high, etc.

So why don't they just buy this other perfect simulation that costs only $20 and... oh, wait that was only in that dream I had recently :D

 

As said before: 'you don't like it-don't buy it! until then take into account that ED is the best available choice we have at the moment. Especially, if you consider the company's ressources e.g. manpower.