DCS P-51D QUESTIONS

[SimFreak]

I don't have access to this sim...can anyone try to release drop tanks and get him by them.

[airdoc]

I did a quick test with the droptanks. It seems that they cannot be hit by bullets (no explosion or even a bullet whole) and they do not damage other aircraft if they crash onto them. They go right through it.

 

 

 

 

I don't mind the crash thing, but fuel tanks being shot should cause an explosion or fire.

 

By the way, now with DCS WWII on its way, is Yo-Yo monitoring this thread about the P51? Seems like he hasn't posted anything here for a while.

[Yo-Yo]

Hi all, this is a question for Yo-Yo.

 

I observed that one can lower the landing gear at any speed without any significant effect on the airframe. The only difference noted was that the nose pitches down a bit and the speed decreases somewhat. However, after testing this on a dive from high altitude, it seems that the aircraft can reach up to 500mph with it down, without any major effect on maneuverability. I was able to pull 8G's on the zoom turn, and then raise the gear up again.

 

Shouldn't there be at least a vibrating airframe with the gear down at high speeds (and a pretty severe one)? And shouldn't the gear sustain damage at these speeds? In the checkertails documentary, there are pilot accounts of a P51 accidentally dropping the gear during a high speed dive, with a result of the whole airplane being ripped apart :

 

 

watch from 1:53' onwards. It has shots of the ripped apart P51.

 

thanks

 

I am in doubt if the gear leg was really a reason of crash. The undercarriage uplocks regarding the blueprints and photos seem to be very robust. Robust until the whole wing is ok. The more plausible reason could be wing(s) rip off due to over-g during pull up. As the main spar was beginning to break (or broken) the leg could get free from the uplock and under inertia forces even get locked with the downlock.

 

The aerodynamic forces acting to the leg and producing breaking moments are significantly lower than the forces during normal landing.

For example, at the 500 mph IAS, presuming total front area about 0.2 m (very rough estimation, but it's ok for estimation purposes), Cx of a cylinder about 1, the total force will be about 6 kN (600 kgs).

Ok, if the leg length is about 1.3 m to the center of the wheel (the exagerrated case - we presume that the whole aerodynamic force acts to the wheel axle that actually is not truth), we have about 8 kNm moment at the pivot point.

 

Let's take a look at the rough 3-point landing with 2.5 g overstressing, for example. of 4000 kg aitplane. The same moment will be 4000*9.8*2.5*(1.3*sin (12)), where 4000 is the mass, 2.5 is over-g, 1.3 is the leg length and 12 degrees is an angle between the leg and the vertical.

So, the moment is about 26 kNm. Moreover, the static moment when the plane is standing still is about 10 kNm that is greater than the calculated aerodynamic loading.

 

 

UPD: For two legs the landing loading must be divided by 2, sorry... but anyway - the result will be the same for the rough landing, i.e. the breaking moment during landing is much greater than even exagerrated aerodynamic loading moment.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Yo-Yo

[howie87]

The aerodynamic forces acting to the leg and producing breaking moments are significantly lower than the forces during normal landing.

For example, at the 500 mph IAS, presuming total front area about 0.2 m (very rough estimation, but it's ok for estimation purposes), Cx of a cylinder about 1, the total force will be about 6 kN (600 kgs).

Ok, if the leg length is about 1.3 m to the center of the wheel (the exagerrated case - we presume that the whole aerodynamic force acts to the wheel axle that actually is not truth), we have about 8 kNm moment at the pivot point.

 

Let's take a look at the rough 3-point landing with 2.5 g overstressing, for example. of 4000 kg aitplane. The same moment will be 4000*9.8*2.5*(1.3*sin (12)), where 4000 is the mass, 2.5 is over-g, 1.3 is the leg length and 12 degrees is an angle between the leg and the vertical.

So, the moment is about 26 kNm. Moreover, the static moment when the plane is standing still is about 10 kNm that is greater than the calculated aerodynamic loading.

 

[VanjaB]

Cool, Im gonna use gears down as an airbrake from now on! High Five YOYO! :)

[Yo-Yo]

Sorry guys! I forgot to divide it by 2, because of 2 legs! :) Shame on me. But the whole result for rough landing will be the same :) Or the first result will be for one leg touchdown first.

[airdoc]

I am in doubt if the gear leg was really a reason of crash. The undercarriage uplocks regarding the blueprints and photos seem to be very robust. Robust until the whole wing is ok. The more plausible reason could be wing(s) rip off due to over-g during pull up. As the main spar was beginning to break (or broken) the leg could get free from the uplock and under inertia forces even get locked with the downlock.

 

The aerodynamic forces acting to the leg and producing breaking moments are significantly lower than the forces during normal landing.

For example, at the 500 mph IAS, presuming total front area about 0.2 m (very rough estimation, but it's ok for estimation purposes), Cx of a cylinder about 1, the total force will be about 6 kN (600 kgs).

Ok, if the leg length is about 1.3 m to the center of the wheel (the exagerrated case - we presume that the whole aerodynamic force acts to the wheel axle that actually is not truth), we have about 8 kNm moment at the pivot point.

 

Let's take a look at the rough 3-point landing with 2.5 g overstressing, for example. of 4000 kg aitplane. The same moment will be 4000*9.8*2.5*(1.3*sin (12)), where 4000 is the mass, 2.5 is over-g, 1.3 is the leg length and 12 degrees is an angle between the leg and the vertical.

So, the moment is about 26 kNm. Moreover, the static moment when the plane is standing still is about 10 kNm that is greater than the calculated aerodynamic loading.

 

 

UPD: For two legs the landing loading must be divided by 2, sorry... but anyway - the result will be the same for the rough landing, i.e. the breaking moment during landing is much greater than even exagerrated aerodynamic loading moment.

 

thanks for the reply Yo-Yo. Makes perfect sense.

However I do think that there should be some buffeting of the airframe at high speeds with the gear down, although I can't quote any sources for the P51. I 've read about this (which also produces very loud sound) from accounts of modern aircraft pilots who used the gear to slow down.

 

cheers

airdoc

[Yo-Yo]

thanks for the reply Yo-Yo. Makes perfect sense.

However I do think that there should be some buffeting of the airframe at high speeds with the gear down, although I can't quote any sources for the P51. I 've read about this (which also produces very loud sound) from accounts of modern aircraft pilots who used the gear to slow down.

 

cheers

airdoc

 

Buffeting - probably will be done.

[airdoc]

great! Do your magic :)

[Mike Busutil]

for example. of 4000 kg aitplane. The same moment will be 4000*9.8*2.5*(1.3*sin (12)), where 4000 is the mass, 2.5 is over-g, 1.3 is the leg length and 12 degrees is an angle between the leg and the vertical.

So, the moment is about 26 kNm. Moreover, the static moment when the plane is standing still is about 10 kNm that is greater than the calculated aerodynamic loading.

 

 

Everybody knows that.... :D

[Python]

Buffeting - probably will be done.

 

Always good to know you are working on such effects, all the little things will eventually come together I'm sure. :thumbup:

[Tucano_uy]

The gear is sturdy, but the wheel bay doors might not sustain the forces abd be ripped off or deformed. Subsequent hydraulic leaks or jammed doors maybe?

[Fifi]

Currently stuck in campaign mission 19 against trucks AA protected.

 

How do you guys manage to hit something with those useless damn rockets??

10 rockets for 10 trucks...you miss one, mission is dead...very nice!

Not to mention those 3-4 AA around not missing you...

Even rocket exploding close to truck do NOTHING. You have to direct hit to destroy?? God!

No need to say aiming sight is rocket usage useless too. How do you aim??

 

Never actually seen such a useless weapon as P51 rockets...or yes, maybe 1939/40 U-Boat first torpedos series!! :D

 

So any tip around? :helpsmilie:

(maybe a way to skip this aweful mission?)

[ZaltysZ]

Currently stuck in campaign mission 19 against trucks AA protected.

 

How do you guys manage to hit something with those useless damn rockets??

10 rockets for 10 trucks...you miss one, mission is dead...very nice!

Not to mention those 3-4 AA around not missing you...

Even rocket exploding close to truck do NOTHING. You have to direct hit to destroy?? God!

No need to say aiming sight is rocket usage useless too. How do you aim??

 

Never actually seen such a useless weapon as P51 rockets...or yes, maybe 1939/40 U-Boat first torpedos series!! :D

 

So any tip around? :helpsmilie:

(maybe a way to skip this aweful mission?)

 

Small unguided rockets are not very useful as area weapon in DCS. If you are calling God because of surviving trucks, I wonder what you would you call seeing what rockets do to infantry. :lol:

 

I don't know that mission, but maybe you could try spraying AA at first and then attack the trucks? Use MGs when out of rockets.

[Fifi]

Small unguided rockets are not very useful as area weapon in DCS. If you are calling God because of surviving trucks, I wonder what you would you call seeing what rockets do to infantry. :lol:

 

I don't know that mission, but maybe you could try spraying AA at first and then attack the trucks? Use MGs when out of rockets.

 

Hello ZaltysZ!

If playing stock campaign, no guns avalaible in this mission. Only 10 rockets...

I know i can access the ME just before flying mission, and add 100% guns...but that's kind of cheating :D

 

Anyway, setted a training mission only with rokets, and that's what i found out:

Have to fire that close to hit something (!!):

 

 

And from inside cockpit, pressing the trigger before that moment is useless.

The truck has to be at the very low aiming line:

 

 

No need to say the firing window is about < half second...but doing this way, i now can hit 90% of trucks.

Still missing 10% to reach goal :(

Edited November 13, 2013 by Fifi

[Mike Busutil]

Can you re arm at the start of the mission? Maybe it will allow you to put some bullets in that thing?

[Fifi]

Can you re arm at the start of the mission? Maybe it will allow you to put some bullets in that thing?

 

Nope because air start. Only way to get bullets is open ME.

[Basco1]

Folder for Controls Profile ?

 

Could somebody tell me where the folder for controls profile is located within the main DCS menu,I just want to make a back up it,just in case I mess something up,thanks.

[Lulac]

Could somebody tell me where the folder for controls profile is located within the main DCS menu,I just want to make a back up it,just in case I mess something up,thanks.

 

Hello @Basco,

I'm not sure but try in this location in Your computer:

C:\Users\?????\Saved Games\DCS\Config\Input

 

and by the way, I have one question: does any of You Mustang pilots use this PZ45 Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant? I think it would be nice for engine and propeller management...any body with experience of using this...recommendation???

 

[Basco1]

Thanks Lulac,I'll try that,btw I can help you with the Saitek Quadrant'I have been using one of these for a long time now.

 

It's a nice bit of kit,in Cliffs of Dover iL2 I used two of the Axis available for landing gear and flaps on my Hurricane,in DCS there is'nt an Axis for the landing gear so I only use one of the Axis for flaps.

 

It's a pity there is'nt an Axis available for the 'Idle Cut Off Switch' in DCS because it would be nice to use this quadrant for that operation too.

 

If you need any other info please let me know and I'll try to assist :thumbup:

 

 

EDIT: You were spot on re the controls profile location,thanks buddy

Edited November 27, 2013 by Basco1

[Cosmonaut74]

Hello @Basco,

 

and by the way, I have one question: does any of You Mustang pilots use this PZ45 Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant? I think it would be nice for engine and propeller management...any body with experience of using this...recommendation???

 

 

Hi; i use this saitek product along with another throttle playing il2 only for propeler and mixture. For throttle operation is not at all acceptable in an ergonomical point of view when you have your joystick ON the office - it's to back and it's levers are too low in the start position. On the other hand if you have your joystick between your legs or right on the chair this is another story i can' tell...

[Guest Markwilliam]

Questions about P-51

 

I just started playing around with the P-51. I am new to DCS however, I am not new to flight sims. As accurate as this software presents itself, I would call it more of a game than a sim. That being said, here are a few questions.

The set up for the game is kind of confusing. You have the sim setup and the game setup. OK, I understand this but it seems as though you cannot change certain features when you select the sim menu. OK...I get this. But... does the game itself select whether you are in sim or game mode. It seems to do this on it's own.

 

I understand the axis adjustments and such. I think they're all pretty well dialed in to my playing style. The actual process is pretty painstaking and should be made accessible while in game, is there a reason that it is not?

So my issue now kind of lies in the view section. I guess my question is....is that it? I'm limited to using my hat for viewing? No mouse view at all? OK....so if this is the case I'll make adjustments. But....my head turns like a 90 year old ladies in the cockpit. I have watched other vids of this game and people's heads are swiveling pretty quickly. Am I missing something? I don't see a "turn head quickly" option.

Lastly: How do you play this thing? I can get the plane started and off the ground fine. Like I said, I'm not new to flight sims. But it seems that I have to literally play in invincible mode to go against most adversaries. Well that's no fun. And when I am pitted against other P-51s within the game, they have 0 limits while I have very limited abilities compared to them. I'm not talking just about maneuverability. I can shoot down one of the planes in training, but it seems that when they want to evade me, more often than not, they speed away at insane speeds for a Mustang. If I'm maintaining 300-350, these bots must be easily doing 400. They just jet away. And evidently, they have unlimited fuel or something because it's my understanding that if you shoot the daylights out of a plane's wings....they run out of fuel pretty quickly. Yet these planes go and go and go with countless bullet holes in them without slowing, losing maneuverability, or running out of fuel. However....I seem to have limited fuel because I often run out when going after the second plane. Am I wrong on this?

Oddly enough, I can shoot a modern air freighter out of the sky (Intercept) with only a few rounds. Yet a WWII plane my size takes my full load of many many hits and still keeps going. And my plane......I hear only a couple of rounds hit my plane and I am down.

I'm really not complaining guys, just trying to understand this game. This could be an enjoyable game if it weren't for these things.

I am not here to argue whether this is a good or fun game or not. I just want to give it a chance so that I can enjoy it. I would appreciate any help and non defensive answers. I'm not judging this game so much as trying to get past the frustrations of its quirks.

Oh...and your forum keeps logging me out 30 secs after I've logged in.

[Pman]

Hiya,

 

It does seem you having a tough transition to DCS:P-51D

 

I have been flying flight sims since the late 80's and this is the first true representation that I have found. All the other sims have their quirks and their problems and I am not saying DCS is perfect but it is alot closer to the real thing.

 

I dont know if you have read the report above about the Horsemen flying DCS but its worth a read. I was fortunate to have been working there with Rock at the time and spending time with the real Horsemen and getting their thoughts and opinions on the sim.

 

In combat the P-51 and the Fw190 do fly almost perfectly regardless of settings, this is something I have seen time and time again on the boards. You only really know how well your doing when you pit up against another flesh and blood pilot. The tanker / civvy plane you speak of doesnt have a detailed damage model like the P51, it takes x number of damage then its done. Due to the detailed damage model of the P51 it takes more direct damage to bring it down, this could take 5 shots it could take 50 depending on the location of the damage.

 

As for the controls in the game menu, this is being added in the next patch 1.2.7, I'd expect this in a couple of weeks.

 

Sim or game mode for whichever aircraft is chosen from the special options under options from the main menu.

 

As for the view if you dont have trackIR then you are at a major disadvantage. You need trackIR or equiv to make the most of this sim, playing without it will always feel wooden.

 

Hope this helps

 

Pman

[EvilBivol-1]

No mouse view at all?

LALT+C toggles mouse-look on/off.

[Guest Markwilliam]

Thanks guys

 

Wow.....thanks for for the Lalt+C! That fixes quite a bit of my issue! I looked all over the control map for it but must have overlooked it. So thanks!

 

And I really do hope that they patch the whole control setting thing. It is very hard to make minute adjustments when you have to keep getting out of the game to make em.

 

I suppose that the other stuff is just getting use to the sim, learning the aircraft and how to manage the power sufficiently.

 

My two main problems pretty much seem to be solved if what you are saying about the patch that's coming up.

 

I think I'll probably enjoy the sim after I spend some time yelling at it and cursing the bot planes.

 

Does the on line flight model differ from the single player? And are there P-51 servers? I can't imagine going up against another person in anything other than a WWII plane on line. I wouldn't stand much of a chance...lol

 

Any idea if they are planning the release of German or Japanese planes in the future?

Even a Corsair or P-47 would be cool. Anything to ad to the mix.

 

Thanks guys!:pilotfly: