The New Arma.

[Wolfie]

This is GREAT how things are going! This is what Arma should have been! A realistic world! It just never achieved it, nor does it look like they will ever aim for it. Many mod groups have done EXCELLENT jobs at trying to do it (i.e. ACE2 ), but just have not been able to get there because of engine limitations. I hope that DCS can become the New Arma, and do what BIS didn't. Its great how we now have 3rd party developers, which are kind of like the mod groups in Arma. I'll gladly buy their products. Now that we have 3 third party developers coming out with new jets, I hope we can attract some developers to make realistic ground vehicles and troops ( especially infantry and small arms). Also, developers who will work on realistic villages, towns, compounds, military bases, and outposts so we can attract the FPS players. I hope DCS will finally be the breakout from the single minded FPS only / Flight Sim only genre.

 

The land right now is kind of at the UT1 / Arma 1 level on the ground, but thats ok. Infiltration was one of the greatest FPS mods ever made, and it used UT1. I can remember running for any cover I could find as F-16's rolled in with a CAS strike. Buildings and structures just need to be made better, with better textures.

[Chrischn89]

So basically you're saying that ArmA is super great overall but at the same time isn't realistic and that this is why you want to take the essence of it and force it into DCS so that it becomes attractive to FPS players...

 

I think you managed to lightly insult both communities at the same time *lol*

[Wolfie]

No ones forcing DCS to do anything. They did it themselves. If the hard core FPS players and the hard core Flight Simmers who hate each other don't like it, let them stay with Crysis and BMS. I think most people ( like me ) want both. A realistic, breathing world. And it looks like we just might finally get it. :thumbup: This was Spectrum Holobytes vision when they came out with F3. They called it "The Electronic Battlefield". Everything in modules. Had they survived, you would have seen modules like M1A1 and T72 as well. Some people will hate it, but I think in the end, it will increase sales, and thus survivability, for DCS. You don't have to buy "every" module, just the ones you want (don't get me started on how some FPS "pilots" fly :music_whistling:).

 

And no, Arma is FAAAARRR from realistic. Though the ACE2 team did do WONDERS with it.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Wolfie

[71st_Mastiff]

Spectrum Holobytes vision .

 

wow dating your self there. :thumbup: but yes since 1980's 23 years ago, I wanted this type of simulation in a Flight sim, that's balanced for all sides, in a CA environment.

 

and by the way I see allot of references to Ace's team who and what did they do to what?

[Wolfie]

wow dating your self there. :thumbup:

 

Yeah, I've been waiting a "while" for this. :P As for the ACE team, they tried to make Arma 2 as realistic as possible ( and did a pretty good job!). Like DCS, they tried to make everything more "hands on". One of their best jobs IMO opinion was the 105mm artillery which you have to load and sight in yourself, with a complicated artillery computer and sight sticks. There are also MANY more mod teams for Arma as well, covering some of the things ACE didn't get to. Thats what I love about Arma, it has so many mod teams, who really tried to get a living, breathing world going. However, the arma engine has its limits. Its pretty old. I'm hoping DCS' new "world" will be able to overcome these limits, and we can finally get a "realistic, breathing world" of both FPS and Flight sim, with realistic player controlled ground troops and vehicles going up against realistic aircraft.

 

With the way third parties are starting to jump on, I hope some will want to do vehicles and infantry, as well as more realistic terrain, towns, military compounds, etc, producing a far more realistic version of Arma.

 

If anyone's interested in the better mods for arma 2, the best place to go is

 

http://www.six-updater.net/

 

This is a program that lets you download and integrate mods into Arma 2.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Wolfie

[cichlidfan]

With the way third parties are starting to jump on, I hope some will want to do vehicles and infantry, as well as more realistic terrain, towns, military compounds, etc, producing a far more realistic version of Arma.

 

Terrain and vehicles builders are likely to be waiting to see what CA and EDGE actually look like. Terrain in particular since EDGE is an unknown at this point.

 

Of course, it is possible that stuff is in the works but has not been announced yet for a variety of reasons.

[SUBS17]

I'm of the opinion that because Arma2 has so many updates a week for ACE etc maybe eventually it'll wind up with Falcon 4 and DCS as a patch.lol BTW Arma2 ACE2 is realistic enough especially since they are now adding Take on Helicopters to ACE2.

[Eihort]

Unlike ARMA however, DCS will not be limited to freeware projects. I don't know for sure, but I'm certain that there's no means for Mod teams to actually charge for their product. Look at the popularity of the DayZ mod. I'd bet that outside of donations, those guys haven't made a dime for all the copies of ARMA 2 that got sold when people bought it just to play it. You also see (usually) nearly glacial progress on some mods because you're completely at the mercy of someone donating their free time.

 

One of the best moves ED did was implement the 3rd party system so that various developers can actually make money on modules for their product. We've already seen some extremely juicy fruits growing on that vine and it's only a matter of time before we get some tasty tasty pie.

 

<_<

>_>

Two seaters for the win. Make it happen ED, please make it happen.

[VAOZoky]

Unlike ARMA however, DCS will not be limited to freeware projects. I don't know for sure, but I'm certain that there's no means for Mod teams to actually charge for their product. Look at the popularity of the DayZ mod. I'd bet that outside of donations, those guys haven't made a dime for all the copies of ARMA 2 that got sold when people bought it just to play it. You also see (usually) nearly glacial progress on some mods because you're completely at the mercy of someone donating their free time.

 

One of the best moves ED did was implement the 3rd party system so that various developers can actually make money on modules for their product. We've already seen some extremely juicy fruits growing on that vine and it's only a matter of time before we get some tasty tasty pie.

 

<_<

>_>

Two seaters for the win. Make it happen ED, please make it happen.

 

Rocket got job at BI and free hands to develop DayZ further maybe even stand alone game

[Eihort]

Well that's some really good news.

[Teapot]

I'm actually hoping for a persistent server like Aces High (or Warbirds Online or even WWiiOnline). I flew for a while in Aces High and loved the dynamic nature of battle there (particularly the air battle), however what soured it for me in the end was the lack of engine management.

Now, if only we can get a persistent server environment for DCS:World:Combined Arms, we can have persistent campaigns sorted by era or by conflict for example ... imagine the possibilities!

IMO, if you provide the conditions whereby a plausible (and fun) scenario may develop you will end up with an exciting experience, especially with DCS level of real world fidelity. I think Aces High is evidence of this (though it doesn't quite have the same degree of fidelity). It also tends to be self policing, in that idiots get a rep for being idiots and either learn to adapt their game personalities, or find their continued existence in the game becomes untenable ...

Edited June 11, 2012 by Teapot

[komemiute]

wow dating your self there. :thumbup: but yes since 1980's 23 years ago, I wanted this type of simulation in a Flight sim, that's balanced for all sides, in a CA environment.

 

and by the way I see allot of references to Ace's team who and what did they do to what?

 

 

Not meant to troll, but EBS (Electronic Battlefield Series) coming along Falcon3 was around early 90', not early 80'...

 

BTW I'm happy too about this.

 

A question now, what is so wrong about ARMA2?!?

[remon]

Rocket got job at BI and free hands to develop DayZ further maybe even stand alone game

 

Rocket was hired by BIS before he released the mod. He made it in his spare time working for them.

[BIGNEWY]

You can not compare the two,

 

Arma 2 is a game

 

DCS is a study Sim,

 

and hopefully will stay that way :)

 

keep the rifraf out and all that lol

[VAOZoky]

To me Arma2 is much more then "game". I look at it as "war simulator" :smilewink:

[ARM505]

The rungs of the ladder are apparently (just going from the posts here in general):

 

DCS type

ARMA type

BF3

MW

Quake etc

 

The rules are that all players of the upper rungs must look down upon those in the rungs below them, and call them 'games' etc. Whether even one single aspect of those 'games' is actually useful or would be nice to have is irrelevant.

 

:)

 

Seriously though, any 'game' as they stand now will run into engine limitations once they step outside their chosen specialty. ARMA is taking flak here because modders always run into engine limitations, but the fact is that it was always an infantry centric game, and it actually does a decent job of creating a world that a person can walk around in (Day Z uses that world, without actually changing much at all when you think about it). For an infantry world, it's pretty big actually. So they've packed in a lot of vehicles as well - not switch flicking simulations, but ok if you watch them move about. If you want to see massive engine limitations, or just a generally crap world, try walking around in the DCS world as a soldier. Imagine having an infantry battle now - staring at each other across a flat, almost featureless polygon isn't my idea of cool. Tank vs infantry combat in Steel Beasts runs into the same problem - the crunchies get mown down since there is generally zero cover, unlike the real world, where even a 20cm depression can do wonders for a soldier, something that ARMA can do an OK (not always brilliant) job of. When Combined Arms comes out we'll be able to drive tanks - compare that to Steel Beasts and I'm sure you'll find that SB is much a much more realistic tank sim (including the 'switch flicking' part) since that was always it's primary focus, unlike DCS.

 

So it's pointless knocking ARMA - that would be like ARMA players knocking DCS because 'it's terrible once you step out the cockpit and lay in the grass' (and it is - but that's not the point of it!) ARMA gets so many comparisons because that is the game that really opens your eyes to how close we can come to a first person simulator - one where you can move around as a human, not as a 'platform' (aircraft, tank, sub etc).

 

Edit to add: Just to clarify, I was joking when I was describing the 'rungs' above - I play (or at least have tried to play) all of them actually, some more than others (clue - it must be more realistic) - it just seemed like some people get a bit snobbish when describing what they believe are 'lesser' games :)

Edited June 11, 2012 by ARM505

[element1108]

ARMA is my FPS of choice. The armor and air element are just accents to the infantry experience. To cycle and program high fidelity on all aircraft and ground units...would be a PC killer and would never get finished (sheer amount of work).

 

DCS is my flight sim of choice (and soon to be armor/strategic game of choice). The ARMA and DCS world will never collide, they're not even in the same universe.

 

The two can make a simming experience quite enjoyable. I don't understand the logic behind comparing the two frankly. Compare COD to BF3, or to CRYSIS even, but ARMA and DCS series can't exist in a ring together...even a caged.

 

So without any disrespect to the author of this thread....ARMA will always be ARMA (especially with 3 on the horizon) because it is a FPS at it's core. CA is a brand new element to DCS world and will make online missions INFINITELY more interesting with humans controlling ground forces/ strategic JTAC's on station).

 

I love this element as I travel a lot and without tracker IR and HOTAS flying is quite useless. This way I can keep the DCS action alive even if I'm not airworthy ;).

Edited June 11, 2012 by element1108

[Pikey]

This is true. Way too much Hype about CA being some Arma replacement. Its what Element describes, the accent for the planes whereas in Arma the planes are the accent for the troops.

 

But, the future is unwritten and there is always dreaming, if not developing ahead.

[112th_Rossi]

I don't think anyone is suggesting merging the two or one being a replacement for the other.

 

ArmA 2 is a fantastic game and it's popularity reflects that. It does a good job at representing infantry and vehicular (fixed wing being the exception) combat.

 

Who knows what the future brings with DCS, the S in DCS doesn't have to mean flight and armour based simulation.

 

I know the engine as it stands makes infantry 'simulation' a bit limited (you can't enter buildings etc, map resolution etc) but thats not to say someone somewhere might come up with an idea. Unlikely as it might seem.

 

I play ArmA 2 and other games in your 'pecking order', so I take a small exception to being labelled 'riff raff'

[BIGNEWY]

I played ARMA for years :) its good fun, but I would not class it as a sim.

 

Sure its better than all the other FPS out there.

 

It will be interesting to see how CA plays out, I am looking forward to it, but any comparison to ARMA is not valid, they are very different.

[Revelation]

I played ARMA for years :) its good fun, but I would not class it as a sim.

 

Sure its better than all the other FPS out there.

 

It will be interesting to see how CA plays out, I am looking forward to it, but any comparison to ARMA is not valid, they are very different.

 

 

ARMA is an infantry sim. It is based off of VBS1&2 which are used as simulations/training for US Army and Marines....

[BIGNEWY]

ARMA is an infantry sim. It is based off of VBS1&2 which are used as simulations/training for US Army and Marines....

 

 

Well I stand corrected then, apparently it is a SIM :doh:

[ARM505]

Ooof, let's not start that 'what makes a sim a sim' debate again :)

[Tracer2k]

i could see a Flight/infantry/tank/whatever game, which could be even called a sim (atleast to some extent) in, maybe 10 to 15 years.

 

But it's not DCS or Arma.

[Akheron]

Technologies change too fast for the time it takes to develop such a complex project. Maybe only Army could have the budget to do it in reasonable time.