Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[GGTharos]

There are many AI jokes, and they have a plan :)

 

It was a joke...

[danilop]

What's serious damage? Can I still bring the nose around? If I can, I'll be sticking a missile in someone.

 

Even if every second more in the cockpit of the crippled plane means certain death if you get trashed by another missile? Your call!

[GGTharos]

Funny that you keep saying it means death, when that is not the case.

[danilop]

Funny that you keep saying it means death, when that is not the case.

 

Getting hit multiple times because you chose not to eject from crippled airplane and stay in fight? In that case, yes - very probable death!

Edited December 27, 2012 by danilop

[GGTharos]

Who said I'm getting hit multiple times? Maybe me sticking in means you and your wingman get stuck instead.

[danilop]

:megalol:

 

This will never end ... more whine please ... :drunk: :lol:

[GGTharos]

I thought you were making up these kobayashi-maru scenarios because you were whining; all I hear from the guys who do it for real is 'it depends', and then they might discuss a very particular scenario with you if able.

[Frostie]

I think the main point here is the fact that in FC there is no FCS to get damaged, so we need a variable to act this part.

 

If the engines are out then the back up EPU is not going to be giving power to your FCS, if the wings are hit then the ejectors can be damaged and also there is a high risk off damaging electrical sytems related to launch. If the main body is damaged then there is a good chance that the actual FCS can be damaged. If the cockpit area is damaged then you're looking at pilot fatality or seriously incapacitated.

 

The only way I see a 100% intact firing system is if only the nose is damaged or only one of the engines gets taken out.

[Pyroflash]

There are possible scenarios, especially given the two engines nature of all of our current aircraft, that pilots would not eject from their aircraft. Why on earth the assumption is being thrown around that a gut reaction to being hit by any little piece of shrapnel or bullets will instantly produce an ejection is beyond me.

[lunaticfringe]

OK, we are guessing here (nothing wrong with educated guessing in my mind), but what would you do in above mentioned battle (4x4) after taking serious damage?

 

I bet you would eject in RL ASAP!

 

Am I on the right side of the map? The wrong side of the map? No man's land?

Aircraft still under reasonable control? Full control? None? Spin?

Supersonic? Transsonic? Subsonic?

Are the engines burning? One? Neither? Both?

Can I extinguish it/them?

Hydraulic failure? No? Yes? Diminishing pressure?

Fly by wire? Assisted? Mechanical all the way?

Am I entering the gaggle, or on an exit vector?

Is there a bandit between me and the other side of the line? Do I have weapons? Does he know I'm here?

Am I supported? Is my wingman supported? Can they get a positional call out for me?

 

When you sortie, you *know* whether or not the force will be able to provide SAR. You have a general idea of their reach. You know divert fields. You may also be given information pertaining to forward elements that you were supporting (to know how far away the good guys are).

 

You also go in with a plan of action, with the above variables (and more) already considered. It is not merely *bang*-PULL.

[danilop]

Now we are on the same page lunaticfringe!

 

You think about procedures and priorities! You don't continue to blindly fight like good portion of virtual pilots do!

 

Of course, you'll kill opponent if there is a slight chance and your priorities are not jeopardised ! That kind of thinking unfortunately does not exist online, because there are no real world consequences for doing irrational things and ignoring priorities - you get hit, you continue fighting no matter what. You can, because in the end you don't die (sorry for "dying" again, but it is ultimate consequence for taking bad decisions in RL sadly missing from sim :lol:)

 

So that's a reason why we should implement some kind of weighted random system controlling missile launch after taking damage.

Edited December 28, 2012 by danilop

[GGTharos]

No, it's you who doesn't understand. Like I've been telling you, the peeps who do it for real will tell you 'it depends'. I'm glad you finally started to understand though ... it's just that their priorities might not always mesh with yours.

 

You think about procedures and priorities! You don't continue to blindly fight like good portion of virtual pilots do!

[GGTharos]

I just don't see the problem. In FC3 the aircraft starts falling apart after taking a bad enough hit. You'll see your wings come off and other fun things, if you don't act the little vpilot dies. If you don't take a severe enough hit, maybe you can still fight. In FC2 things were different, any hit that didn't kill you outright (and let you keep your wings) would probably have allowed you to fight.

 

But I sense a lot of butt-hurt-ism here. This happend in LO1, I complained about it, and it got greatly reduced. I don't see it happening much in FC3 either.

 

I think the main point here is the fact that in FC there is no FCS to get damaged, so we need a variable to act this part.

 

If the engines are out then the back up EPU is not going to be giving power to your FCS, if the wings are hit then the ejectors can be damaged and also there is a high risk off damaging electrical sytems related to launch. If the main body is damaged then there is a good chance that the actual FCS can be damaged. If the cockpit area is damaged then you're looking at pilot fatality or seriously incapacitated.

 

The only way I see a 100% intact firing system is if only the nose is damaged or only one of the engines gets taken out.

[danilop]

No, it's you who doesn't understand. Like I've been telling you, the peeps who do it for real will tell you 'it depends'. I'm glad you finally started to understand though ... it's just that their priorities might not always mesh with yours.

 

I understood it from beginning, please read carefully what I have written - the problem is that you don't want any changes to the system we have now in the sim, claiming that it's realistic as is.

 

I argue that only sensible thing to do (to approximate "it depends" on which we generally agree :)) is RANDOMNESS in launching possibility of damaged airplane.

[G-Lock91]

butt-hurt-ism .

 

Word of the day right there! :thumbup:

[lunaticfringe]

You think about procedures and priorities! You don't continue to blindly fight like good portion of virtual pilots do!

 

You don't think about procedures; you run on instinct. As was previously stated, when you feel the *bump*, you don't reach for your kneeboard and turn to chapter 8.

 

Mach? You know. You've known it since you chose the throttle setting.

Map position? You know- you knew your ToT or to the next waypoint.

Fire? You look at two indicators. Same with hydraulic pressure.

Everything else is outside the cockpit.

[GGTharos]

I don't want time-consuming changes when they really are not needed. There really are other, much more important things that require attention - just IMHO. You've all managed to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I understood it from beginning, please read carefully what I have written - the problem is that you don't want any changes to the system we have now in the sim, claiming that it's realistic as is.

 

I argue that only sensible thing to do (to approximate "it depends" on which we generally agree :)) is RANDOMNESS in launching possibility of damaged airplane.

[Cali]

I'm not saying that I will take the word of RL pilots over your assumptions, but I'm going to take RL pilot's words over your assumptions.

 

 

It shouldn't be overly difficult Cali - how many died during combat (not ejecting, basically modern day Kamikaze :)) with confirmed missile launching at enemies while in damaged plane. There are wingman and there are AWACS around to confirm this.

 

Basically, you can count how many (posthumous) medals are awarded in recent conflicts, and then read about circumstances looking for bravery including not ejecting/fighting in hit airplanes.

 

And then you find percentage against sorties flown /planes hit ...

 

Maybe you could never find exact percentage, but to sound, rational and inquiring mind it's obvious that this percentage is extremely small ...

 

What you just said is a bunch of crap, you can't go off of stuff like that. I know a pilot that got target fixated and crashed into the ground in Iraq, helping friendly forces on the ground. There are so many things that happen and we will never know the truth about. Look at the recent F-22 that crashed in Alaska, they went back and forth saying it was the pilots fault or the jets fault.

 

There are possible scenarios, especially given the two engines nature of all of our current aircraft, that pilots would not eject from their aircraft. Why on earth the assumption is being thrown around that a gut reaction to being hit by any little piece of shrapnel or bullets will instantly produce an ejection is beyond me.

 

+1, maybe that's what the people complaining about would do. Even in F-16's when the engine is out, the pilots stay in the jet as long as they can. I went to a crash site back in April 2007 I believe, where the jet took off and had a engine failure. They ejected about 3 miles from base in a open field. If the pilot would have ejected as soon as the engine failed, there was a good chance off hitting a house. I have a few pictures of that crash site back at home.

 

You don't think about procedures; you run on instinct. As was previously stated, when you feel the *bump*, you don't reach for your kneeboard and turn to chapter 8.

 

Mach? You know. You've known it since you chose the throttle setting.

Map position? You know- you knew your ToT or to the next waypoint.

Fire? You look at two indicators. Same with hydraulic pressure.

Everything else is outside the cockpit.

 

Pilots run through emergency checklist a lot, they know those things, they have to know those things! Yes they do think about procedures, that's the first thing that comes to their minds. I can tell you this cause I have had friends that flew F-16's and A-10's. Since day one of flying things are drilled into their heads. I'm sure there are some that wouldn't think procedures first, because everyone is different.

[lunaticfringe]

To my point, you're correct and we agree, Cali, but with a caveat to what danilop was saying- he's pointing out to books, whereas the pilot in the seat is going to know those procedures cold. He briefs them. He's simmed them. He's had lights come on before.

 

He's ahead of the jet because of this. Which is why in the heat of the moment, he can look at two gauges and know (because of things that I mentioned) as to how bad his current state is, and make the decision was to whether to try and push, or to extract.

 

There's a difference between "procedure" as a wrote methodology, and putting it into effect. The argument that has been attempted to be made by some is that once it goes pear shaped, you're in effect looking at a book and *only* following those terms, which is just not so.

 

Cause, if they were, according to what he was saying, it would be "feel whump-BANG ---> HANDLES!!!1!"

[pakster]

BUT BIG QUESTIONS REMAINS AGAIN ????

 

WHERE ARE THE NEW MODERN SUPERLATIC --->FLANKERS<---

 

1. SU35-BM (all the DCS f-15 pilots are afraid of)

2. MIG-35 (all the DCS f-16,f14,f-15e and a10's pilots are afraid of)

3. we need also modern Russian JETS !!!!.

 

Last poll check:

102 for Flankers:megalol:

11 only against Flankers:pilotfly:

 

So ED please do something THE WORLD DOESN'T NEEDS AMERICAN HEROISM... they are great military jets besides USA.:music_whistling:

[Cali]

BUT BIG QUESTIONS REMAINS AGAIN ????

 

WHERE ARE THE NEW MODERN SUPERLATIC --->FLANKERS<---

 

1. SU35-BM (all the DCS f-15 pilots are afraid of)

2. MIG-35 (all the DCS f-16,f14,f-15e and a10's pilots are afraid of)

3. we need also modern Russian JETS !!!!.

 

Last poll check:

102 for Flankers:megalol:

11 only against Flankers:pilotfly:

 

So ED please do something THE WORLD DOESN'T NEEDS AMERICAN HEROISM... they are great military jets besides USA.:music_whistling:

 

Not enough info on them maybe, just a guess. Nobody is scared of the Su-35 or Mig-35, you add them, then here comes the F-22 which is actually flying and not in development or testing phases. Also, I don't know why you are laughing at the poll, only 11 pilot said they are scared of it :megalol: and 103 wants them upgraded, me included if we have documentation. So the joke is on you.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Cali

[thearies]

Su-35bm would be great, but the su-27sm would also be a good competitor ;)

[winchesterdelta1]

99% of the times i flew in FC2 i dont eject at all. Or i die with my plane and try to fire some missiles on bandits or if i still have control i try to fly it back or glide it back home.

I dont eject for the strange reason that you dont see yourself hanging on the parachute after you bail out. You are put right back into the lobby after ejecting. It annoy`s the hell out of me, cause i like to see the battle raging around me while i`m parachuting down.

I have a vid that i`ll post later where you see me taking a 2 shots at a plane while i know i should have ejected in the first place (half my plane was on fire) I will post that later.

But i can`t tell what the situation is in FC3 these day`s. But i can understand both sides of the argument.

The thing that annoy`s me the most are the pilots that spam all there missiles and don` t even do evasive maneuvres when fired upon. But i will not complain about that cause i have done it myself alot of times aswell. Those are probably the air quake pilots E was talking about before :)

 

EDIT You can see it around 7:10:

Edited December 28, 2012 by winchesterdelta1

[pakster]

Not enough info on them maybe, just a guess. Nobody is scared of the Su-35 or Mig-35, you add them, then here comes the F-22 which is actually flying and not in development or testing phases. Also, I don't know why you are laughing at the poll, only 11 pilot said they are scared of it :megalol: and 103 wants them upgraded, me included if we have documentation. So the joke is on you.

 

Cali .... check the poll ! so the joke is on you now :lol:

 

2nd bring on F22 and still Flankers can KICK u know what :D .... its just the mind games that they play that their jet is Stealthy but the truth is something else... remember Russian shot down the U-plane or whatever they call it. And the retirement of F-117 Stealth Fighter. Vice verse everything has a way around....

 

Cali....Oh Reality Check----> Check poll Status again <----

 

PEOPLE LOOOOOVE FLANKERS !!!! bcuz you know what the famous Rock says:

If you smell what The Russia is cooking..... :smilewink:

[pakster]

Su-35bm would be great, but the su-27sm would also be a good competitor ;)

 

You are right brother from the another mother... I Say bring all the Variant's of the Flanker Family... :smilewink: