Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[Kuky]

So, give us basic russian 4th generation SU27/MiG29/SU25T with all the bells and whistles in graphics, flight model and avionics department which US jets (A-10c in particular) already enjoy. Offset that with AFM, 6dof basic 4th generation F15/F16/A10c package and we are set!

 

Simple as that.

 

How is this simple? What you are asking for there is DCS Modules of each aircraft.

[pakster]

It was explained to you repeatedly in your thread prior to the merge.

 

I'll try again: there are big problems, legal problems, inherent to the modeling of russian military aircraft when you are a russian company.

 

Yes it was explained but this thread and my thread was two different topics. People have the right to know. My thread was mainly on Flankers especially the modernize Su-35 BM and nobody warned me about merging the Thread also..(were is freedom of speech I imagine).

 

We need a good amount or same amount of Russian 4++ Generation fighters compare to US fighters.

 

And I will agree with Danilop last post regarding ED derogating Russian jets to BFM and simple avionics. :)

[danilop]

Well, as I understand FC3 is the last ED product in LOMAC franchise including multiple aircraft.

 

Next project is US fighter. That's fine. I would like to see some variant (not picky at all) of SU-27 modeled to same standard afterwards. Even better (especially for the online community), start developing SU-27 NOW and release both planes simultaneously or as the package! And after that, multirole package like F16/MiG29. Leave the carrier operations aircraft to 3rd party (give them maximum assistance)

 

If it means double the price and double the wait, so be it!

 

No one said that we have to get all AFM 6dof planes at once - it is obviously impossible within reasonable time frame.

Edited December 30, 2012 by danilop
grammar errors ...

[pakster]

How is this simple? What you are asking for there is DCS Modules of each aircraft.

 

Kurky I know it is not simple... but I promise you if ED can pull this off... I will and most honorably pay up to 80 bucks ! for FC3 if ED will modernize flankers or Migs to 4++ generation fighters.....:thumbup:

[Madone]

but I promise you if ED can pull this off... I will and most honorably pay up to 80 bucks ! for FC3 if ED will modernize flankers or Migs to 4++ generation fighters.....:thumbup:

 

:doh: Please not that. Everything else but not that promess... :bored:

[sobek]

If it means double the price and double the wait, so be it!

 

As i said, not possible. The retailers impose hard caps on prices, exceed those and they won't touch it.

[Xeno426]

As i said, not possible. The retailers impose hard caps on prices, exceed those and they won't touch it.

I wasn't aware that the new modules are even being sold at retail, since it seems ED has gone mostly full digital. In that realm, retailers can go sit and rotate.

[danilop]

As i said, not possible. The retailers impose hard caps on prices, exceed those and they won't touch it.

 

It looks that ED is sole distributor of DCS modules at the moment! Steam version of A-10c is stand alone, isn't it?

 

The point was not in the pricing policy (they can split it in two modules and simultaneously release the both hypothetical fighters for €39.99, BTW). The point was that releasing one fighter without the other (no matter which one comes first) is dangerous for multiplayer community.

 

So you get F15 (or SU27) and after a while you will certainly get bored of shooting SU25Ts(A10cs) online. You really need the other human controlled fighter of the same capabilities and quality.

 

FC3 is just a temporary fix, not a solution to project DCS:Fighter - sorry, SFM and simple avionics are not enough anymore - you spoiled us!!! :lol: We are talking about the future of the DCS here. ;)

 

Don't make the same mistakes like the other producers of study sim's so far (Falcon 4.0, Jane's F18 ...)

 

You need high quality Russian birds (AFM, real avionics, clickable 6DoF) if you want quality online experience in DCS! Don't forget that!

[Kaktus29]

i'm starting to feel that maybe ED is getting afraid of doing what they should-and that is devoting attention to russian planes.. as they did from the start..

 

but of course money talks..the market is just too big in the west and western customers would rather fly a western plane and shoot down eastern ones.. thats the reality ..so, if they choose to follow up with this, i don't think we will be seeing any russian high fidelity fighter any time yet.. most probably the whole thing degenerates into Jane's fighter collection with the big change of DCS making better planes but still most of them will be western ones..

 

i tried to gauge this aspect with "new theater" question threat..and most would rather fight in "iraq,iran" theater than EU )) lol.. this shows you what customers expect.. easy battles between a superior force and a defeated one ..

 

if the russian company does this than, so be it.. sad, missing the chance to be something different than most generic western military simulations but yeah.. thats the reality in the end..

[Cali]

Once again katus29 you are trying to speak for everyone in the west? There are a lot of westerns that like to fly eastern jets....yes it's true. How about make a poll and put every aircraft on it that you can think of (modern jets/heli) and see how that goes. Let people choose up to 5 different aircraft and that would decide which aircraft Ed makes for the next DCS models.

[Xeno426]

but of course money talks..the market is just too big in the west and western customers would rather fly a western plane and shoot down eastern ones.. thats the reality ..so, if they choose to follow up with this, i don't think we will be seeing any russian high fidelity fighter any time yet.. most probably the whole thing degenerates into Jane's fighter collection with the big change of DCS making better planes but still most of them will be western ones..

While I'm sure a large Western audience affects their decisions, there is still a large Eastern audience and many Westerners that would love to see a high-fidelity Russian bird. The MiG-21Bis is cool, but I'd personally like to see something more modern like a Russian multirole aircraft. I imagine part of the reason for fewer Russian aircraft is the difficulty in getting detailed information about them.

 

i tried to gauge this aspect with "new theater" question threat..and most would rather fight in "iraq,iran" theater than EU )) lol.. this shows you what customers expect.. easy battles between a superior force and a defeated one ..

Or they're interested in flying within a theater from the stuff that has been in the news for the last several years. Or perhaps Russia isn't really seen as an "enemy" anymore, so the interest in seeing a large European battle has diminished.

 

if the russian company does this than, so be it.. sad, missing the chance to be something different than most generic western military simulations but yeah.. thats the reality in the end..

There are so few military simulation companies around—and I mean actual simulation, not arcade—that none can really be called "generic". If ED does end up making nothing but high-fidelity Western aircraft, they still wouldn't be generic 'cause they'd be the only ones doing it!

[Kaktus29]

your arguments do not hold under scrutiny.. you say iran is preferred because its in the news?)) what? .. i am talking about a simulation which is the most enjoyable when its challenging ..would you agree? .. so, how can Iran be preferred than EU ?)) And i didn't say Russia vs. West war.. if you read my "A new theater" thread you would know i was talking about more different scenario-no matter how unlikely it would be much more challenging than NATO vs. some outnumbered, outgunned, outsanctioned nation ..

 

While mentioning iran why not attack the arctic and those pesky polar bears.. yup, .. you need your F-22 to kill those baby seals and bears and fish )) ..

 

and again, this "myth" that they can't do russian jets because of lack of info ?)) so, a russian company can get US info but not russian one? EVEN when the model of the russian plane is like 50 yrs old? The orginal Su-27 is pretty much a relic when compared to the Su-30 etc.. we are talking about the original Su-27 in the ED simulations.. which means pre-historic radar that is WORSE than the F-15 A-model(that is A model, not C but A)..

 

If ED concentrates only on US planes than as i said, no problem, just please remove the russians one completely.. no need to be used as propaganda reasons and show them as drones.. okei? ..

 

And more than anything ED has shot themselves in the foot by doing this, in China they have at least 20 million people market who would be interested IF Eastern planes-mostly russians since they have russian planes as their core-would be simulated.. and that is ONE BIG STEADY income for the company.. but yeah.. if ED thinks USD is better than Yuan's.. let me see what happens..and how long will they make it doing this..

 

my bet is, a competitor will emerge in future, mostly from China or Russia and will concentrate on the East.. and ED will miss the boat.. since ED will have DCS F-15,F-16,A-7,A-8,F-18,F-22 ..oh and lets not forget ALSO Mig-21Biz )) lol.. which they are not even doing but a 3rd party is.. while the competitor will rightfully concentrate on Eastern ones and therefore be much more likely to be used by chinese than flying as an f-16,f-18 etc..

 

i'm not a russian but to see this russian company doing this kind of crap is just sad.. i can't imagine a usa company doing nothing but russian jets )) lol..

 

to all the fans of US of course this is amazing.. you get to blow up mig drones and scream hell yeah-as if you know what your doing.. to me that is not simulation.. is BF3 with better simulated ailerons and landing gear etc.. but nothing more than that..

 

ED has shown some serious lack of strategic sight.. it will cost them in the future ..

Edited January 6, 2013 by Kaktus29

[Gaanalma]

But a Mig 29K? Oterwise Mig29M

[sobek]

i'm not a russian but to see this russian company doing this kind of crap is just sad.. i can't imagine a usa company doing nothing but russian jets )) lol..

 

I think what you really need to do is go to President Putin and propose a less restrictive military intelligence policy instead of accusing ED of kissing western customers buttocks. It would be a better use of your time.

[pakster]

your arguments do not hold under scrutiny.. you say iran is preferred because its in the news?)) what? .. i am talking about a simulation which is the most enjoyable when its challenging ..would you agree? .. so, how can Iran be preferred than EU ?)) And i didn't say Russia vs. West war.. if you read my "A new theater" thread you would know i was talking about more different scenario-no matter how unlikely it would be much more challenging than NATO vs. some outnumbered, outgunned, outsanctioned nation ..

 

While mentioning iran why not attack the arctic and those pesky polar bears.. yup, .. you need your F-22 to kill those baby seals and bears and fish )) ..

 

and again, this "myth" that they can't do russian jets because of lack of info ?)) so, a russian company can get US info but not russian one? EVEN when the model of the russian plane is like 50 yrs old? The orginal Su-27 is pretty much a relic when compared to the Su-30 etc.. we are talking about the original Su-27 in the ED simulations.. which means pre-historic radar that is WORSE than the F-15 A-model(that is A model, not C but A)..

 

If ED concentrates only on US planes than as i said, no problem, just please remove the russians one completely.. no need to be used as propaganda reasons and show them as drones.. okei? ..

 

And more than anything ED has shot themselves in the foot by doing this, in China they have at least 20 million people market who would be interested IF Eastern planes-mostly russians since they have russian planes as their core-would be simulated.. and that is ONE BIG STEADY income for the company.. but yeah.. if ED thinks USD is better than Yuan's.. let me see what happens..and how long will they make it doing this..

 

my bet is, a competitor will emerge in future, mostly from China or Russia and will concentrate on the East.. and ED will miss the boat.. since ED will have DCS F-15,F-16,A-7,A-8,F-18,F-22 ..oh and lets not forget ALSO Mig-21Biz )) lol.. which they are not even doing but a 3rd party is.. while the competitor will rightfully concentrate on Eastern ones and therefore be much more likely to be used by chinese than flying as an f-16,f-18 etc..

 

i'm not a russian but to see this russian company doing this kind of crap is just sad.. i can't imagine a usa company doing nothing but russian jets )) lol..

 

to all the fans of US of course this is amazing.. you get to blow up mig drones and scream hell yeah-as if you know what your doing.. to me that is not simulation.. is BF3 with better simulated ailerons and landing gear etc.. but nothing more than that..

 

ED has shown some serious lack of strategic sight.. it will cost them in the future ..

 

Well Said My Friend Well Said... :thumbup:

[Kaktus29]

again.. please do understand ED themselves said their "research of customer behaviour" points to west.. so this has nothing to do with putin and restrictive info.. which is laughable argument when trying to argue you can't simulate DCS Su-27 from the 80's )) lol.. its not like we are talking about Su-34, or Tu-160, .. we are talking about Su-27 the original-who barely had a radar that worked.. or Mig-29 the original same thing.. there is more than enough info of this pre-historic planes and obsolete technologies.. today russia employs AESA and PESA radars, not antenna crap that were used in the 70's and 80's..

 

but people like you try to hide behind this ugly fact that ED has "switched" and is doing west planes only.. )lol.. and trying to hide this as its putins fault )) .. lol... so NATO is giving info no problem, but here..well, putin, .. its all about putin see..

 

what's next.. putin is restricting info on Mig-23? .. yup, top secret plane with top secret radar.. how about Mig-15? i'm afraid russia has too secret files, .. ED will not be able to do even Il-2 .. ))

 

we all know whats happening here, and its Simulation is changing into Western pleasure trick--where you fly F-22 and blow up Mig-15 in iran.. )) ..woow, super realistic.. yeah, and challenging too.. so hard and difficult.. but then again, its all putins fault ))

[upupandaway]

Again, lolwut... I´m not gonna get drawn into your argument after this post for obvious reasons, but:

 

- What do you really know about ED´s plans regarding the release of future DCS-level aircraft? Haven´t there been a few surprises?

- What specific information do you have about the availability of info on said russian aircraft and their systems?

- How does ED not benefit from the MiG-21 release? Do they license their platform for free?

- What competitor does ED currently have to fear that they aren´t years ahead of in this line of business?

- Why should ED restrict the free choice of 3rd party devs regarding the aircraft they model (ok, there is probably some western bias, but not from ED)?

- Where is this idea of a current western bias coming from? DCS: east/west - 1:2, FC3/World: east/west - 6:2

- How are eastern planes in DCS simple drones made for target practice?

- Where do you get your numbers and facts from?

- Why do you hold such a grudge against ED and do nothing but complain? Haven´t you seen the eastern A/C from FC3 will be getting some real love from ED?

 

...

Edited January 6, 2013 by upupandaway

[Cali]

I deleted my post because it is hopeless trying to talk to them. Your avatar makes me laugh every time I see it.

[upupandaway]

You mean my wedding picture? I know I´m a pretty girl :D

[Pyroflash]

again.. please do understand ED themselves said their "research of customer behaviour" points to west.. so this has nothing to do with putin and restrictive info.. which is laughable argument when trying to argue you can't simulate DCS Su-27 from the 80's )) lol.. its not like we are talking about Su-34, or Tu-160, .. we are talking about Su-27 the original-who barely had a radar that worked.. or Mig-29 the original same thing.. there is more than enough info of this pre-historic planes and obsolete technologies.. today russia employs AESA and PESA radars, not antenna crap that were used in the 70's and 80's..

 

but people like you try to hide behind this ugly fact that ED has "switched" and is doing west planes only.. )lol.. and trying to hide this as its putins fault )) .. lol... so NATO is giving info no problem, but here..well, putin, .. its all about putin see..

 

what's next.. putin is restricting info on Mig-23? .. yup, top secret plane with top secret radar.. how about Mig-15? i'm afraid russia has too secret files, .. ED will not be able to do even Il-2 .. ))

 

we all know whats happening here, and its Simulation is changing into Western pleasure trick--where you fly F-22 and blow up Mig-15 in iran.. )) ..woow, super realistic.. yeah, and challenging too.. so hard and difficult.. but then again, its all putins fault ))

 

And what exactly do you know for a fact? Do you know, with absolute certainty what ED is thinking, or what restrictions they are under? Do you even have a clue as to what 3rd party restrictions are in place, for any of the devs?

 

No, you can only speculate. Legitimate concerns, but with absolutely zero proof to back them up with. You claim western bias? Where is the proof that western aircraft are better? Where is the proof that they are getting better treatment? Where is the proof that ED ISN'T developing some sort of Russian aircraft?

 

Exactly, you have none, so please, kindly voice your concerns, but no one likes to listen to a whiner. Again, no one is telling you to NOT speak up if something is wrong. They only ask that if you believe something to be incorrect, that you provide irrefutable evidence in your favor (i.e. official documentation). If you have some access to unclassified Su-27 documents of some sort, I'm pretty sure that people here would love to have them. However keep in mind that documents which might be available outside of Russia, might not be documents that ED is approved to use in a sim due to NOFORN restrictions or somesuch. Also be aware of the restrictions imposed upon the material that relate to your use of it, or you could wind up with men in black suits at your door :D

Edited January 6, 2013 by Pyroflash

[Xeno426]

your arguments do not hold under scrutiny.. you say iran is preferred because its in the news?)) what?

Nope, I simply offered it as a possibility. In no way did I say that was why it was chosen. Nice straw man attempt, though.

 

so, how can Iran be preferred than EU ?))

Because the thought of America vs the EU is ludicrous, and...

 

And i didn't say Russia vs. West war..

Who else would they fight in Europe? The Czech Republic? Belarus? Because that would be such a fight amongst equals.

 

 

While mentioning iran why not attack the arctic and those pesky polar bears.. yup, .. you need your F-22 to kill those baby seals and bears and fish )) ..

Fallacy of Weak Analogy. Whatever difference there might be between Russia and Iran is still orders of magnitude less than between Iran and a non-existent country with polar bears.

 

EVEN when the model of the russian plane is like 50 yrs old? The orginal Su-27 is pretty much a relic when compared to the Su-30 etc.. we are talking about the original Su-27 in the ED simulations.. which means pre-historic radar that is WORSE than the F-15 A-model(that is A model, not C but A)..

You just answered your own question. A 50 year old aircraft, if they added it, would have to go against much more modern Western aircraft like the F-15C, and then people would be talking about Western bias because Russia gets obsolete aircraft.

 

And more than anything ED has shot themselves in the foot by doing this, in China they have at least 20 million people market who would be interested IF Eastern planes-mostly russians since they have russian planes as their core-would be simulated.. and that is ONE BIG STEADY income for the company.. but yeah.. if ED thinks USD is better than Yuan's.. let me see what happens..and how long will they make it doing this..

Good luck getting any detailed info on Chinese equipment.

 

And I suppose you have all the same marketing information on China that ED has?

 

my bet is, a competitor will emerge in future, mostly from China or Russia and will concentrate on the East.. and ED will miss the boat.. since ED will have DCS F-15,F-16,A-7,A-8,F-18,F-22 ..oh and lets not forget ALSO Mig-21Biz ))

None of those are being worked on by ED, making this is a red herring (also there is no such thing as an A-8 ). Most of the 3rd party dev teams are Western, so it makes sense that most of them will be working on Western aircraft, if for no other reason than it's rather difficult to get technical data on Russian aircraft if you don't know Russian.

 

lol.. which they are not even doing but a 3rd party is..

So ED should restrict 3rd party developers? Is there any point to this tangent?

 

to all the fans of US of course this is amazing.. you get to blow up mig drones and scream hell yeah-as if you know what your doing..

I am starting to seriously doubt you've actually played the game, because the Su-27S in FC3 is quite the match for the F-15C so long as you play to that aircraft's strengths and don't get caught trying to fight the F-15C's fight.

 

ED has shown some serious lack of strategic sight.. it will cost them in the future ..

Refer to upupandaway's post.

[sobek]

again.. please do understand ED themselves said their "research of customer behaviour" points to west.. so this has nothing to do with putin and restrictive info..

 

Since you are not a resident of the russian federation you are hardly in a position to accurately assess that. Judging after statements on these boards made by people that actually live in russia, the situation is rather dire.

 

Let's end the politics discussion at this point, however.

[Madone]

*eating my popcorn*

[Kaktus29]

Fallacy of Weak Analogy. Whatever difference there might be between Russia and Iran is still orders of magnitude less than between Iran and a non-existent country with polar bears.

 

-so you are saying under scenario of Russia vs. Iran?)) this is your iran theater?)) that is much less likely than Germany vs. UK war.. talk about ludicrous idea )) lol..

 

i was reffering to WEST vs. Iran.. and yes the analogy of mine holds true.. and that is F-22 dropping bombs on baby seals in the north pole.. but you and many like you prove me right when i say you in fact desire such "combat and fight".. it makes you feel superior and you actually like the feeling of being such a great pilot when you manage to destroy an opponent who cannot fight back..

 

Thats why i said EU theater..

 

who would fight in there? Read my "A new theater" thread, i describe it .. and considering the collapsing EU economy not to mention the US one i think this is much more likely to happen than Russia invading Iran )) .. lol..

 

EU is becoming more of a fascist organization than anything out there, we basically have Germany the super-state dictating to periphery.. this will not hold on for long.. the cracks are seen .. and yes, if one tries to make interesting, challenging game of "EQUALS" ..then EU theater is great ))

 

but as i said, you proved me right when you want fight with somebody who is under heavy sanctions and fighter jets from the 70's.. while you fly with raptor )) ..

 

DCS is going to become an arcade with people like you.. you are like children really..

 

but then again, i can't blame DCS, .. look at BF3.. how much money they made, and they are faaar from simulating anything..

[danilop]

Western and Russian aviation historians usually differ in respect to the [....insert your favorite military hardware from both stables here...] combat record, in part due to the bias in favor of their respective national aircraft [military] industries. They also usually accept claims going along with their respective political views since usually many conflicting and contradictory reports are written and accepted by their respective historians

 

Just stumbled upon this on Wiki ... it explains why we have been endlessly and pointlessly arguing on this board ... :)