Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[hansangb]

Thanks for that. Fascinating. I found this interesting:

 

Q: Does the DX12 support make a big difference? I'm still on Win7 and have a GTX 970, I'm wondering if upgrading to 10 would improve the performance at all.

A: You should see a slight performance boost with games running on DX12 but Rift games are made to reach 90fps on a 970 anyway.

:)

[spazmo]

Can someone explain how gauges are unreadable on a DK2 or CV1 with a resolution as high or higher than a 1080P monitor which has no problems showing clear gauges? Assuming no SDE is visible I don't see how the gauges would be unreadable at 2160x1200 when they are perfectly clear and readable at a much lower 1080P on my monitor.

 

There's two parts to this.

 

Firstly, the screen is split down the middle, with each side showing a slightly different image for each eye. This is how you get the 3d effect. It means that you are only seeing the image at 1080x1200 resolution, although you get two slightly different perspectives of the same image. Special lenses in the headset make each half of the image "fill" up your eyesight and make it seem like you're really there (at least up to ~100° FOV).

 

Secondly, on that smaller half resolution screen, you are seeing a wider field of view than you probably showed before. The horizontal FOV rendered in the headset will probably be somewhere between 100°-110°, whereas most FPS games are somewhere between 75°-90°. That means that the number of pixels per degree is even worse.

 

So you've got a wider FOV crammed onto a much smaller resolution screen. I found the DK2 to be *incredibly* immersive and fun, but very difficult to read gauges, see runways in the distance, or read HUD information. I'm hoping the CV1 will be an improvement but what I've read says that the resolution isn't a massive jump, even though the screen-door effect is greatly improved.

Edited March 22, 2016 by spazmo

[hannibal]

Thanks for that. Fascinating. I found this interesting:

 

Q: Does the DX12 support make a big difference? I'm still on Win7 and have a GTX 970, I'm wondering if upgrading to 10 would improve the performance at all.

A: You should see a slight performance boost with games running on DX12 but Rift games are made to reach 90fps on a 970 anyway.

:)

 

yea, maybe after DCS 2.0 integration, eagle dynamics will seriously consider moving to DX12. but for now, its going to be DX11 until DCS 2.0 is stable.. no point in rushing into DX12 , that will just make the transition that much longer

[Enduro14]

yea, maybe after DCS 2.0 integration, eagle dynamics will seriously consider moving to DX12. but for now, its going to be DX11 until DCS 2.0 is stable.. no point in rushing into DX12 , that will just make the transition that much longer

 

Longer maybe, but I think it would be worth it. Dx11 hasn't made VR work miraculously yet in 2.0. Hope it changes in the next month.

[Vladdo]

On my 980ti & DK2, I have no problems achieve 90fps (ie, no judder) when i'm out in the desert. However, when you go flying down the strip, there's obviously 10 times the amount of detail compared to an empty desert. Black sea is also very low on the detail level so you shouldn't have any problems with that area to fly in. Las vegas is just very complex to draw, hence the frame rates.

 

I really can't see DCS optimizing it so that you'll get 90fps on a 970. However, with asynchronous timewarp, decoupling the frame rate from the refresh rate, it should be a good workaround that should satisfy most users. When I play Prepar3d, I get around 50-60fps, and with it having timewarp, there's no judder whatsoever.

[Frusheen]

On my 980ti & DK2, I have no problems achieve 90fps (ie, no judder) when i'm out in the desert. However, when you go flying down the strip, there's obviously 10 times the amount of detail compared to an empty desert. Black sea is also very low on the detail level so you shouldn't have any problems with that area to fly in. Las vegas is just very complex to draw, hence the frame rates.

 

I really can't see DCS optimizing it so that you'll get 90fps on a 970. However, with asynchronous timewarp, decoupling the frame rate from the refresh rate, it should be a good workaround that should satisfy most users. When I play Prepar3d, I get around 50-60fps, and with it having timewarp, there's no judder whatsoever.

 

There are a lot of optimizations needed in dcs. Performance has actually got worse in the last few updates. You mention 90fps in the desert when it's actually 75fps on your 980ti with dk2. I'm hoping they were able to integrate features such as asynchronous timewarp. It's one reason why I didn't consider the Vive as it doesn't have this feature.

[Vladdo]

Sorry, yes, you're right, it is 75fps on the DK2. And it was confirmed a little while ago that asynchronous timewarp is working with runtime 1.0.

 

I'm going to stick with my DK2 for a while yet, since if the res hasn't improved significantly (ie, able to read gauges) as I don't really notice the screen door effect. And if DK2 is going to support runtime 1.0+, i'll get asynch timewarp anyway.. For me a CV1 is a $1100 purchase, with possibly minimal improvements.

[wormeaten]

Did anyone with DK2 try this upgrade kit?

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HDMI-display-wqhd-6-inch-1440p-2560x1440-mipi-lcd-with-hdmi-to-mipi-driver-board-for/32601103052.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.q3CoCB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201602_3_10036_10035_10034_507_10020_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_7&btsid=4c21028d-361a-48a3-b786-2684b18cb00b

 

This should give you near CV1 performance. Increase resolution from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440 and reducing screendoor effect from 386PPI to around 540PPI.

This will give you 1280x1440 per eye and CV1 is 2160x1200 or 1080x1200 per eye and not sure about PPI because never found this important data.

Edited March 22, 2016 by wormeaten

[Johnny Dioxin]

This is an old video, and probably been posted before - but this is why I am prepared to shell out £529 for this bit of kit:

 

 

I think the Vive and Rift will deliver a very similar performance and the only reason I'm ordering this instead of the Vive is the price. I don't need the 15x15m or the controllers to enjoy DCS World, so paying an extra £130 for that seems crazy when the Rift will do it nicely (and is apparently lighter, too).

 

At least with Touch I'll have the option to get them or not.

[DerekSpeare]

Did anyone with DK2 try this upgrade kit?

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HDMI-display-wqhd-6-inch-1440p-2560x1440-mipi-lcd-with-hdmi-to-mipi-driver-board-for/32601103052.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.q3CoCB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201602_3_10036_10035_10034_507_10020_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_7&btsid=4c21028d-361a-48a3-b786-2684b18cb00b

 

This should give you near CV1 performance. Increase resolution from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440 and reducing screendoor effect from 386PPI to around 540PPI.

This will give you 1280x1440 per eye and CV1 is 2160x1200 or 1080x1200 per eye and not sure about PPI because never found this important data.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone has actually used that successfully.

[dot]

This should work quite well for VR flying and racing:

 

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/2016/03/amd-radeon-pro-duo-revealed/

 

While AMD's Radeon Pro Duo is aimed at existing VR devices and content creation, AMD's Roy Taylor did hint at what the future might hold for the company during a pre-briefing call, outside of sticking an entire PC inside a headset:

 

We are already working with a headset manufacturer, unannounced, with a 4K per eye headset. It exists. It's quite, quite beautiful, and we believe that the roadmap to go into higher resolutions will happen more quickly than is probably expected. Once you've seen a high resolution VR experience, you can see that it's really quite beautiful."

[dot]

HTC vive review:

For those who haven't tried any VR yet:

"The resolution is surprisingly low":

[Frusheen]

HTC vive review:

For those who haven't tried any VR yet:

"The resolution is surprisingly low":

 

This is the rift thread. Did you mean to post that over here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912

[DerekSpeare]

http://uploadvr.com/smi-eye-tracking-foveated-rendering-exclusive/

 

[ame]

[/ame] Edited March 23, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[hansangb]

I hope they keep up development. This is how the human eye/vision works

(it's actually surprising when you learn that our HD-vision zone is very small in real life!) Hopefully, they can make it so that the tracking works fast enough not to cause headaches/nausea.

[TOYKILLA]

The Rift CV1 has a much besser and sharper Display and lenses as the Vive. Only a few days left to get mine and I hope,Ed is working for a good support.

 

This is the next level for DCS and the biggest step up in the last year's ...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

What are people's plans on how to refer to documents (check lists and the like)?

 

Do we need to wait untill we have a functioning 3D kneeboard? Can you tab out to desktop (from what I understand this may depend on whether you're using 'direct' mode or not)?

[DerekSpeare]

The Rift CV1 has a much besser and sharper Display and lenses as the Vive. Only a few days left to get mine and I hope,Ed is working for a good support.

 

This is the next level for DCS and the biggest step up in the last year's ...

 

There will be a number of folks who will appreciate any early reports the first recipients of the new Oculus are willing to give. Mine does not come until May. I'll have a detailed - if not redundant by then - summary when I have one.

[Frusheen]

What are people's plans on how to refer to documents (check lists and the like)?

 

Do we need to wait untill we have a functioning 3D kneeboard? Can you tab out to desktop (from what I understand this may depend on whether you're using 'direct' mode or not)?

 

That's going to be a bit of an issue no doubt. You can still open documents on your main monitor even in direct mode. No need to tab out. You just click on the edge of the 2d dcs window on your monitor to free the mouse and then you can access your documents. You'll have to click back onto the dcs window to bring the game pointer back. It's a bit of a pain unless they give us a functioning kneeboard similar to flyinside.

[Enduro14]

One mans opinion of usefulness is his only. Everybody's abilities are different and Vr will only multiply that.

[Johnny Dioxin]

What are people's plans on how to refer to documents (check lists and the like)?

 

Do we need to wait untill we have a functioning 3D kneeboard? Can you tab out to desktop (from what I understand this may depend on whether you're using 'direct' mode or not)?

 

Funny I should log in and see such a post as I am just about to start work on a possible solution - at least for start-ups to begin with (no pun intended there) - and I'll look at what other procedures can be done further down the line, if these are popular.

 

I'll be doing some audio checklists for DCS aircraft, like the ones I did for Falcon BMS a couple of years ago. You will still have to either Alt-Tab out of DCSW to start the prog, or start it before you start the sim, but if you are online, you will have to make sure you don't mix your voice messages to your buddies with the checklist responses.

 

More info soon.

[DerekSpeare]

Like I stated a few pages back on the point of image clarity: I have it on good word from a developer that gauge "readability" is "much improved" over the DK2, so much so that in my opinion it's not much of an issue.

 

I've been using the dk2 for well over a year and have become very used to using it. The image clarity at times isn't much of an issue now, and if I need to read something really small I just lean in a bit and read it. Gauge readability in DCS, for example, is pretty good now with the DK2. While things are fuzzy to a degree, it's decent and not a liability by any means. I agree, too, that objects in the distance are not easy to see. The DK2 is still long for this world and will be re-purposed to the DSD Test and Demo Rig once the CV1 arrives.

 

My recommendations to those who's first VR device will be the CV1 is to start with the Oculus Demo Scene (presuming that it's there in the 1.n.n.n runtimes). You need to experience that first. The very first instance of life in VR is just as important as every time after it, and the Oculus Demo Scene will give you a great first time; it's also good to make sure your system is running properly because if it runs there, all is clear.

 

I was hooked on VR the first second at the Oculus demo. I can't fly or drive without it and won't touch any game (for myself) that doesn't support VR properly. The future for VR is bullish now that it's on the threshold of becoming mainstream. All of us "propeller heads" and "wing nuts" have a very bright time in the future to anticipate!

 

BTW: If there are any FSX/P3d fans here you MUST get FlyInside if you haven't already. It's really the cat's pajamas.

Edited March 23, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Johnny Dioxin]

I'm really looking forward to FlyInside - I do a lot of flying with Air Hauler in Papua New Guinea and getting into some of those tight little strips with big drops at the end is going to be the mutt's nuts in VR :D

[j0nx]

I have all but given up on FSX myself after DCS. The dodo is just plain boring to fly after the Huey and the Mi-8 and with the Gazelle rumored to be very near release it's just not looking good for FSX for me. Flyinside is definitely on my list of things to try though in a high detail orbx area at least.

[Frusheen]

I have all but given up on FSX myself after DCS. The dodo is just plain boring to fly after the Huey and the Mi-8 and with the Gazelle rumored to be very near release it's just not looking good for FSX for me. Flyinside is definitely on my list of things to try though in a high detail orbx area at least.

 

The biggest thing I dislike in fsx since experiencing VR in dcs is the lack of a pilot body in the cockpits. In VR that adds so much to the experience. Fsx even with flyinside just feels somehow off without that.