Cockpit interaction in future addons

[aimmaverick]

Will the Lockon: Black Shark feature truly functioning cockpits or will just certain things be adjustable? Im asking because I suspect that only switches on the main control panel and around MFCDs will be clickable. The side panels contain also very important things. In planes right now we have for instance features accessible through keyboard which is just fine(I dont support mouse interaction because it greatly complicates handling with systems in the middle of the combat) But the switches have no ANIMATION except some little exclusions like gun rate change, master arm.. There are no changes when you switch between combat modes, navigation. (look on the F-15 side panels and you will see how many switches are, otherwise moddeled but have no animation. Basicly I would like to see more dynamic cockpits because right now we have just turning dials and changing MFDs. I think if this was implemented in future it would be much cooler than having clickable pits and would wastly shorten time invested in producing such pits. Instead there would be more time for AFM?, AI and bug fixing, realism features...

[Gazehound]

I agree partly - I dont want to click pits with my mouse, it too fiddly and part of the reason I cannot get into falcon. Fo rme it detracts from- rather than adds-to the immersion. Im pressing buttons on my keyboard, thats more like pressing buttons in a pit than dragging a mouse round a desk is.

But most people REALLY want the feature, and I suppose we should see it for that reason. As long as you can smoothly pan your helo cockpit still.

[MGonzales]

So which cockpit functions in Falcon require you to use the mouse to click without having a keypress alternative? And more importantly, are there any like this which are usually needed in the heat of battle?

 

It seems to me that a clickable pit helps with not having to remember (or reference) so many key-ins, especially for those functions that can be done leisurely.

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Mark

[Guest ruggbutt]

I'm all for the clickable pits. I'll map everything to my HOTAS and while they're diddly-farting around w/their mouse they won't even see the incoming missile.

[Jason76]

You make a good point aimaverick; it's even harder to fly the SU-25 standard version without the control animations... It would be nice to know exactly which navigation mode you are in right away, for instance.

[Weta43]

I agree - not that interested in clicking the screen with the mouse - esp during combat, but would like some more of the switches to reflect the changes I make using the keyboard (nav modes etc.)

[Gazehound]

So which cockpit functions in Falcon require you to use the mouse to click without having a keypress alternative? And more importantly, are there any like this which are usually needed in the heat of battle?

 

It seems to me that a clickable pit helps with not having to remember (or reference) so many key-ins, especially for those functions that can be done leisurely.

--

 

 

Mark

All of the ones I dont know the keys for. :D Perhaps if you are used to falcon games you know a lot of keypresses anyway. Its hard converting from lomac.

The main issue is the panning.

[355th_Paulie]

I'm all for the clickable pits. I'll map everything to my HOTAS and while they're diddly-farting around w/their mouse they won't even see the incoming missile.

 

 

 

:icon_weed

[SUBS17]

So which cockpit functions in Falcon require you to use the mouse to click without having a keypress alternative? And more importantly, are there any like this which are usually needed in the heat of battle?

 

It seems to me that a clickable pit helps with not having to remember (or reference) so many key-ins, especially for those functions that can be done leisurely.

--

 

 

Mark

 

 

Ramp Start, setting up VIP,OA,RA, precision high altitude bombing by using grid reference,setting up fuze settings, calculating optimum cruise altitude for RTB when low on fuel. Theres alot of functions that are best done with the mouse, combat modes of course you use the HOTAS.(which I don't anyway, I still use the mouse for most things!) Some guys map everything onto the hotas and fly like that. Others have home pits with everything in the pit on panels. A clickable pit is actually easier! and you are infact taking away from the realism in alot of aspects by using the keyboard! For example the ramp start, you're pushing each button with reference to the pit. You physically have to look in the area of the pit where the switches are located. Give it time you'll see it is alot more fun.:D

[SUBS17]

All of the ones I dont know the keys for. :D Perhaps if you are used to falcon games you know a lot of keypresses anyway. Its hard converting from lomac.

The main issue is the panning.

 

Get a Trackir, end of problem.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

I'm all for the clickable pits. I'll map everything to my HOTAS and while they're diddly-farting around w/their mouse they won't even see the incoming missile.

 

 

I are confused, How can you map something to your hotas, when you have to physically click part of a cockpit to do whatever youre doing.

 

Or do you mean, use the hotas to basically act as the mouse, then another button on your stick as the mouse button ?

 

Cuz I cant see how it could be possible to map a function to Hotas when you have to mouse over something on screen and then click for it to function.

 

Maybe there is a way, but i cant see it, if there is and its doable in other games, lemme in on it.

[Gazehound]

A clickable pit is actually easier! and you are infact taking away from the realism in alot of aspects by using the keyboard!

I dont find it easier in the slightest, much harder, thats my point - I can press buttons on my KB without looking. If I use my mouse I first have to wake it up, then then I have to twitchyly hover it over the dial. You may find it easier - I dont. I cannot use a mouse with my left hand and my stick needs my right!

And are you saying that with TiR you can pan the clickable pit in AF?

EVIL - there are keypresses for most/all of the clickable buttons, but the training ignores them.

[SUBS17]

The mouse is always awake of AF with my computer, with regard trakir I was refering to 1.2 which has that feature plus clickable pit. Remember you can't map everything effectively onto your hotas in AF. There are alot of functions that require the mouse. You take away the realism the moment the F-16s hotas functions are altered in any way if you're using a cougar. You can always start building your own pit might solve that problem. But clicking the switches is much more realistic in this way, you don't require your hand always to be on the throttle for a start. So using your left hand for mouse control is one way around it. Of course most hotas already are fitted with a mouse controller on them. So you can still keep your hands on hotas if thats the way you fly. In most cases such as ramp start its not necessary to worry about much as time is in your favour so using the mouse during this process is no big deal. Likewise presetting your weapons in flight enroute to the target or CAP area.

[SUBS17]

Here everyone try this out

http://members.tacticalgamer.com/~halligan/sp3_ramp_start_trainer.zip

[Yellonet]

I'm not sure why clickable cockpits would replace the keycommands.

[Yellonet]

I dont find it easier in the slightest, much harder, thats my point - I can press buttons on my KB without looking.

Which you probably wouldn't do in real life - hence it is unrealistic and not in the best interest of a simulation. But obviously there should be a realism option to have key commands enabled or not.

[Gazehound]

Which you probably wouldn't do in real life - hence it is unrealistic and not in the best interest of a simulation. But obviously there should be a realism option to have key commands enabled or not.

Oh I would..

The one that you need to operate your radar/ecm etc when in a fight - im sure viper drivers are practiced enough to know there way around a cockpit blinfolded, blacked out and drunk! (well, maybe not drunk).

I really dont see how moving a mouse with your left hand is the same as moving your left hand in 3d to press/turn something.

[Yellonet]

Oh I would..

The one that you need to operate your radar/ecm etc when in a fight - im sure viper drivers are practiced enough to know there way around a cockpit blinfolded, blacked out and drunk! (well, maybe not drunk).

I really dont see how moving a mouse with your left hand is the same as moving your left hand in 3d to press/turn something.

Doubtful, there are often several switches that feel the same next to each other, so if you don't look you have to count them by feel to really know exactly which one your flipping, but many controls are probably not operated while in the air so there would not be any need to have your hand on the stick while operating them.

 

But operating inflight controls with your left hand and mouse is the most realistic way we have right now, until Naturalpoint or someone else releases some handcontrol like the Nintendo Revolution controller which you could operate in 3D space.

[Force_Feedback]

But operating inflight controls with your left hand and mouse is the most realistic way we have right now, until Naturalpoint or someone else releases some handcontrol like the Nintendo Revolution controller which you could operate in 3D space.

 

Or, if you're that hardcore, can go with a touch screen ;)

[Yellonet]

Or, if you're that hardcore, can go with a touch screen ;)

I guess... but that really isn't for everyone.

[Olgerd]

In clickable pit you will get the opportunity to use the keyboard instead of the mouse - all clickable functions will be accessible via the keyboard (and switches will be animated).

[Yellonet]

In clickable pit you will get the opportunity to use the keyboard instead of the mouse - all clickable functions will be accessible via the keyboard (and switches will be animated).

Just as I thought. But it's very nice to get it confirmed :)

But will the use of keyboard be available all the time or will it be a realism option?

[Olgerd]

Just as I thought. But it's very nice to get it confirmed :)

But will the use of keyboard be available all the time or will it be a realism option?

 

There is nothing connected with realism as both control methods are only very rough approximations to what a pilot actually does in the cockpit.

So... the keyboard controls are avaliable always, but the clickability can be switched on/off in flight.

[Manny]

I'm all for the clickable pits. I'll map everything to my HOTAS and while they're diddly-farting around w/their mouse they won't even see the incoming missile.

 

Lol! I agree! Click-Pit fanbois enjoy Flight Simulation but not Combat Simulation for this very reason.

 

Those Combat SIms that have Click-Pits are enjoyable but they do not add more to the realism in my opinion. I agree it is easier to hit a key on a keyboard or map it to HOTAS than grab the mouse which may mean taking your hand off the stick or throttle and then locating the function and ensuring you are manipulating it properly all while ensuring u have proper SA.

 

Now consider being NOE at 140 kts and realizing you need to redjust your optical sight or radar. If mapped to HOTAS, it's eyes on function to confirm properly manipulated and eyes on terrain quickly to correct attitude. I am with Rugg, go ahead and go head down in the pit and lemme put two up your pipe.

[Yellonet]

There is nothing connected with realism as both control methods are only very rough approximations to what a pilot actually does in the cockpit.

So... the keyboard controls are avaliable always, but the clickability can be switched on/off in flight.

Well it would seem that mouse clicking would emulate visually identifying the switch/button, reach for it with your arm and flip it, instead of looking straight up in the air and still be able to do ten "switchflipps" in a second.