First Impressions

[KLR Rico]

After a year or so flying the A-10, and a couple weeks with FC3, I've been hankerin' for a real "stick and rudder" kind of plane, so I got the P-51. I've only flown it for 30 minutes or so, but I thought I'd share my first impressions.

 

I skipped the manual and just hopped in to see what would happen if I was walking down the street and happened to find a mustang sitting there.

 

I had previously setup the basic controls, and make sure anything that said assist or auto in the options was disabled. I located the appropriate power, mag, fuel, air, and whatever other switches/lever/knobs looked like they'd be important to start the engine and gave her a whirl. The result: burned out starter. :D

 

A peek in the quick start guide revealed that I had it 99% right, but you have to crank it over and go from cut off to run on the mixture lever at the same time. Did that, and got it started up. Then I wanted to see what would happen if I stumbled upon a *running* P-51. :) Result: flaming death as I get rolling a good ways down the runway and then veer off into the grass. Another peek into the quick start guide and I find that I had made a good call with the careful throttle advancement, but the locking tail wheel is of some importance. So with the secret of the tailwheel in mind, I'm back at it and I have a successful takeoff and fly around for a bit exploring the flight envelope. After 10 or 15 minutes of cruising around I still managed to stay airborne without breaking anything and decide it's probably a good time to land...

 

The first attempt was looking pretty good all the way through short final, but I put it down a bit rough on the flare and a good bounce. By the time the second bounce came things were going bad pretty quickly, so I aborted that landing and got her back in the air for another go. The second attempt wasn't too bad. Still a bit bouncy, this time I got it to stick and nothing broke.

 

So by the end of my fantasy flight, I guess I would have broken an engine, and died on takeoff, but that wasn't as bad as I expected. :megalol:

 

Outside of that experience, I'm really impressed by what I've seen so far. I was a bit worried about the people that have crapped on the flight model; how it stalls too easily, etc. I completely disagree with that. Granted I have zero time in a P-51, but to me it feels like a real plane in real air, and the plane is very communicative about when you're pushing the flight envelope. Departures from controlled flight seem spot on, and everything feels "right" with the model.

 

Plus, another area that I was very impressed with was the FFB effects, they are probably the best I've experienced in any sim. The control forces are fantastic and it all feels great. I'd really like to get some more time on it and see if compressiblity and reversal are modeled.

 

Overall, I'm pretty stoked with the P-51. Now I just have to dig into the manual and really learn the plane (and that alone is one of my favorite things about the DCS series).

[recoilfx]

....and the plane is very communicative about when you're pushing the flight envelope.

 

 

Hehe, the moment you said that it is very communicative, i suspected you were flying with FFB, because the plane is not very communicative about stalls when there is no FFB.

 

The added visual buffetting is a welcome, but still not good enough when the cockpit is not in view when dog fighting....

[VH-Rock]

A great review!

 

I agree with your comment on the flight dynamics - I think most people who have reviewed it are long term ED fans who have experienced jets and expected to be able to throw it around as such. When that proved not to be the case, it obviously was the aircraft's fault, not there's for not flying it right ;)

 

A little time is all it takes to realise what a great job ED have done with the P-51

[VIMANAMAN]

Yeah I really needed a good old stick and rudder machine when ED announced the Stang - and it's everything I hoped it would be and more...

 

I too enjoyed A10 and Shark immensely but they're just not my 'style' of flying I guess?

 

It seems the 51 is not to everyone's tastes though as you say - it seems people either love it or hate it!!?

 

It really is a complete joy to fly in my opinion.

(and as you say it does feel like you're actually flying doesn't it).

 

Anyway glad you're impressions were so good.

[KLR Rico]

I think the FFB has a lot to do with flying the p-51 after all. It does a lot for the experience, everything from tight, crisp high speed flight to wallowing around at 125 kts, it really does make a pretty big difference... I don't have a regular stick anymore, but I'm sure I'd lose a lot of the experience without the FFB, probably something worth pointing out. There's still MSFFB2's out there for $20-30 on eBay, if you really want to fall in love with this plane. :)

[recoilfx]

Oh i got a MSSFB2, in the closet :) Once you go Warthog, you don't go back :)

 

I probably will hook my driving wheel again, that'd way I'd still some sort of shaking feedback - but I'd loose the trim though :-(

[Merlin-27]

Great write-up. I had a similar experience and also burned out a starter.. or two. I agree it feels very authentic and how awesome is it to find actual historical documentation on the aircraft that relates so faithfully to the sim. Makes for a very immersive experience.

[KLR Rico]

Oh i got a MSSFB2, in the closet :) Once you go Warthog, you don't go back :)

 

You should dust it off just to try it with the 'stang, if only once. :joystick:

 

Yeah Merlin, I had doubts about WTF I'd do with a P-51 in the DCS environment, but so far it's been worth it just for the systems and overall experience alone, never mind any combat (something that I'll get started tonight).

[recoilfx]

i already tried- but I can't get used to the short throw of MSFFB2, since I've been using an extended Warthog.

 

I don't care so much for the variable spring pressure or even the trim positions, it's just the shake that I really want... It's a shame that we don't get audio feedback, I don't think buffeting events are exportable either...

[EvilBivol-1]

I think most people who have reviewed it are long term ED fans who have experienced jets and expected to be able to throw it around as such.

I think one of the other issues is that a lot of players first tried it back in beta, when it was considerably more difficult to control, in particular during taxi and takeoff. A lot of posts and many first impressions were made early on that may still be affecting some users' views and reviews of the model. Personally I think it's now quite easy to handle, especially on takeoff. The only difficulty is learning the edge of your stick pull and to a lesser degree, coordinating the rudder as airspeeds change during maneuvers. The former can be a surprise and cause problems for users without a FFB device who may not see that what they are doing with their HOTAS translates into virtual stick input that a real pilot would not attempt in the cockpit.

[Echo38]

I skipped the manual and just hopped in to see what would happen if I was walking down the street and happened to find a mustang sitting there.

 

The result: burned out starter.

 

Ha! This was my experience also. Mind you, not out of laziness or impatience--I fully intended to read it in its completion (and did, shortly afterward), but I was curious about what would happen if I just hopped into a warbird and tried to start it without knowing the proper procedure. (The result: burned out starter.)

 

I was a bit worried about the people that have crapped on the flight model; how it stalls too easily, etc.

 

You must be talking about Kwiatek. I know him from the Rise of Flight forums. For the many months I was there, he posted practically nothing but complaints about flight models, based solely on his experiences in Cessnas. I wouldn't take it too seriously. I appreciate (and share) his desire for the most realistic simulation possible, but I don't think he spends enough time learning how to properly fly the sim before judging it. I duelled him a couple of times in R.o.F.; he certainly could use some more familiarity with the sim & aircraft before trying to accurately assess the strengths & weaknesses thereof. Not a bad fellow, but take his complaints about the physics with a chunk of salt.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Echo38

[KLR Rico]

LOL, the hop in & fly approach is fun, isn't it?

 

I'm not sure if it was the same guy writing all the things I was seeing, but the reviews appeared to be pretty well mixed. Certainly does seem to be a love-hate relationship.

 

I started getting into the dogfighting yesterday. The AI is tough! That fight lasted forever! At least 10 minutes... We'd get into tight scissors, I'd eventually find myself slipping further into defensive, and I'd unload and extend, then we'd come back to a head-to-head pass (that guy doesn't miss much) and then right back into scissors. After several cycles of this pattern the damage I'd take on each head to head engagement forced me to bail out. :D

[Echo38]

but the reviews appeared to be pretty well mixed. Certainly does seem to be a love-hate relationship.

 

Well, it's all love with me. (Well, okay--I'm not all that happy about the tracer effects, and the program could use some performance optimization. But, really, I'm something like 97% happy with the sim.)

[Merlin-27]

Well, it's all love with me. (Well, okay--I'm not all that happy about the tracer effects, and the program could use some performance optimization. But, really, I'm something like 97% happy with the sim.)

 

I haven't seen anyone mention the tracers before. I agree... they are very apparent in the grainy B&W gun cam footage. I'd expect them to stand out a lot more and have those signature "swirl" rotations. Just a little tweak that hopefully will be sorted down the line. And like you, I enjoy flying the Stang more every day. Flew a co-op mission yesterday with Invisibull and Fakum that was a ton of fun. The multiplayer element really adds a lot. Unfortunately we stirred up a hornets nest of AI Mustangs...we ran map of the earth towards home and some of us didn't make it.

 

[Foul Ole Ron]

I haven't seen anyone mention the tracers before. I agree... they are very apparent in the grainy B&W gun cam footage. I'd expect them to stand out a lot more and have those signature "swirl" rotations. Just a little tweak that hopefully will be sorted down the line.

 

As far as I'm aware the "signature swirl" that's visible in gun cam footage is actually due to the gun camera shaking and not the bullets swirling through the air. They wouldn't have actually looked like that to the pilot firing at his target.

[Jona33]

It's so satisfying to fly. When you takeoff, cruise at low level using the rails, powerlines and rivers. Find a bridge and climb before diving steeply and shacking it. It's just so much fun. Compared to the A-10 where you could do the same thing with GBU's and barely have to look outside the cockpit.

[KLR Rico]

The more I fly it the more I like it. It really shows you where your weaknesses are that's for sure...

 

Say, how do you enable PAC on this damn thing? ;)

[Merlin-27]

As far as I'm aware the "signature swirl" that's visible in gun cam footage is actually due to the gun camera shaking and not the bullets swirling through the air. They wouldn't have actually looked like that to the pilot firing at his target.

 

You're probably right, that makes sense.. i thought the tracers themselves did that. I stand corrected.

[Invisibull]

You all should know that Merlin had no less than 6 bandits on his six, drilling him with .50, yet he was still able to belly in safely. Great job, Merlin, and thanks for distracting them long enough to allow me to get home safely and drink all your beer. lol

[Merlin-27]

You all should know that Merlin had no less than 6 bandits on his six, drilling him with .50, yet he was still able to belly in safely. Great job, Merlin, and thanks for distracting them long enough to allow me to get home safely and drink all your beer. lol

 

haha nice. Hey man I'm still hoofing it towards base. My iphone battery is almost dead though and I hear footsteps :helpsmilie:

[Der_Fred]

New to DCS and bought the P51 first, as I prefer prop a/c.

One concern is with ground control... not sure whether it's me, but the p51 is jerky with rudder and throttle control. I'm not pushing more than 40% throttle.

 

Could be my setup.. I'll check this.

 

Not new to the sim games = +- 5000 hrs IL2 (FW190) and around 100 hours on P51.

 

Otherwise I like the finer FMs of DCS so far.

[MegOhm_SD]

Do you have pedals?

 

If so and you have toe brakes... I found in axis...x & y saturation at 80 and curvature at -30, deadband zero to be helpful.

 

I did not have to adjust rudder..left it at default... others may tell you different..but this is what works for me...

 

at taxi speed you can use rudder and/or toe brakes to turn. Either holding stick back or stick free...your preference... if just using rudder you will have to go faster and it can be tricky... i have the Saitek Combat Pro Pedals...highly recommended

Edited February 8, 2013 by MegOhm_SD

[Der_Fred]

Ja.. thanks Had Saitek pro pedals but I wore those out... and using keys which I don't know yet

Generally I'm a bit of hardcore - no deadband, 100s on all axis..etc

I thrive on immediate response to my control inputs... sortof works me up !

 

It's to the manual and configuration for me, for the time being.. back later.

 

thanks

Edited February 9, 2013 by Der_Fred

[Der_Fred]

One funny 'quirk' if you wish... Flying along and I pull hard and fast on the stick... plane starts to stall then I ease up, shaking stops.. but when pulling further on the stick there is no response from the plane.

 

It's as if it's stuck on that flight line - I'm not in a stall condition and flying at speed in a straight line. I have to push the stick far forward to get it to react.

It looks like a stall condition recovery, but I'm not stalling ?

 

Only starting so I might have things wrong.. but I found this puzzling. :)

Edited February 13, 2013 by Der_Fred

[Weta43]

Can you post a track ?