03 and 07 May 2013 Updates

[Levinsky]

Agreed! 2 weeks into a good thing with DCS:Fridays and now we stand a chance of losing news again. I really appreciate Matt taking time to come into this heated thread and cooling it down though.

 

+1 Agree with you and leafer. Really appreciate Matt's (and ED) updates and their willingness to share information on future projects.

[71st_Mastiff]

I think some people think their actually shareholders when they bought the license keys? :joystick:

[Levinsky]

I think some people think their actually shareholders when they bought the license keys? :joystick:

 

Lol that's a great analogy

[Eihort]

"I'm out of it for a little while and people have delusions of grandeur." Good ol' Han.

 

After much reading, I'm all for getting out from under this yolk called Ubisoft. The F-15C and Su-27 AFM releases are a good way to do this and get more people interested in the sim by giving the late comers a way in without having to order a redonculously old game just to play the new one.

 

However I hope ED treads carefully in how they integrate this with the current FC3 customers. That could be a pretty big sticking point for people. We are rewarded for our long time devotion to a staple of ED's products by repeatedly being asked when we purchase add-ons to hang onto discs for YEARS, and adding only marginal feature sets every time. A lot of us were hoping this kind of business would stop with DCS World and now we're being asked to endure it again, with the sneaking suspicion that it's going to keep happening with Su-25, A-10A, MiG-29, and Su-33.

[Witchking]

The Su25 already has AFM and the A-10A will be getting AFM in the future as part of FC3. I would assume the Mig and Su33 may be updated in due course again for a price....which is absolutely fair as they need funds and they cannot give everything away for free.

[pepin1234]

I appreciate the update info. Please do not stop and go ahead with the updates news. Pictures, Videos and plans, I am very glad to hear about

[statrekmike]

I think some people think their actually shareholders when they bought the license keys? :joystick:

 

While this thread has gotten very big, I don't think anyone here who had concerns (including myself) really wanted to give the impression that we want it our way or else, in fact, I think this thread was actually very civil and often times rather diplomatic (aside from a couple of stumbles but only a few).

 

I noticed that after Matt Wagner posted his reply to the controversy, all of those who complained about the "negativity" of this thread immediately used that post as a rallying call to further marginalize the opinions and concerns posted by those who wanted to share their feelings as customers.

 

We don't think we should be shareholders or anything, we just wanted to voice our feelings about the rapidly changing landscape of DCS world and how it relates to our ever present fear that our already small numbers (those who like study sims over survey sims) are simply not ever going to be a loud enough voice to matter.

 

I am going to speak for myself here but I think that many will agree, the DCS series is literally the only place that a combat study sim fan can go to for new content, ED is literally holding the entire future of the modern combat sim genre in it's hands alone and that means that all of our eyes are on them.

 

Before I go on, I am going to get something out of the way, I don't think many on this thread ever thought that ED was just going to stop building study sims, I know I didn't. Nobody here thinks that ED is lying to us and nobody here thinks that ED owes us something outside of what they have already talked about releasing but it seems that some on this thread wanted to make it a "us vs them" fight and that helps nobody.

 

We like the more frequent news updates and we are not being so "negative" that they should reasonably stop, in fact, as I have said before, this thread was actually rather reasonable and never really got to the point where anyone was acting childish or anything, I read every page and just saw two camps kinda debate for awhile in a somewhat subdued way.

 

So, in closing, telling me as a loyal, paying customer that I am somehow overstepping my bounds when I voice a reasonable (and carefully worded) set of concerns (as did several others here) about the future of DCS level study sims is not really productive at all, it is only made worse when some feel the need to "win" the argument and marginalize those who don't agree after the fire dies down.

 

I will continue to support ED, they are the only ones who are actually doing the type of sim I actually like and thus I will support them until they stop doing so, I however don't think I am obligated to blindly support them on every project in hopes that I will eventually get the one that was announced that I am waiting for.

 

IF this is offensive to anyone, I am sorry, I tried to word it carefully as to not sound adversarial, I am simply trying to put some things into perspective here.

[pepin1234]

The Su25 already has AFM and the A-10A will be getting AFM in the future as part of FC3. I would assume the Mig and Su33 may be updated in due course again for a price....which is absolutely fair as they need funds and they cannot give everything away for free.

 

+1 :thumbup:

 

I guess maybe ED is interesting to do the same proyect for the Su-33 and Mig-29. I have bought the FC3, but if ED make an extra offer with a 3D cockpit and AFM for this birds ( like the F-15, Su-27 ), For sure, I will buy every single bird.

 

Please do not forget the Super Toat 25T and his 3D cockpit. You will get my money

 

PD: by the way, if make a super 3D model like F-15 and Su-27 is too much for the current graphic engine, then I dont care get something like the current Mig-29 textures, AFM and 3D cockpit will be very welcomes

Edited May 9, 2013 by pepin1234

[SilentEagle]

Thanks for the updates! Looking forward to the F/A-18C!

[zaelu]

What rapidly changing landscape? Because of updates that states the plans for F15C/SU27 AFM?

 

I want to say just to be noted a different expectation. I couldn't care less for a F18C... There... I said it. I wait for EDGE more than any other new feature. What am I suppose to do now that ED announces they plan to further update the fidelity for F15 and Su27 flight model after updating them already with new 3D model, new 6DoF cockpit, new AFM for missiles? Panic?

 

No... I open a beer!

[statrekmike]

What rapidly changing landscape? Because of updates that states the plans for F15C/SU27 AFM?

 

 

I am not trying to start any arguments here, but I will say that going from DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 to just the F-15C and Su-27 is a pretty rapid change in the landscape.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasons and while I don't have to like the reality of it, it is indeed reality none the less, it just came as a bit of a shock considering prior information.

 

Nobody is really in a panic, at least not in this thread.

[zaelu]

I see only 3 letters being removed :P

[sobek]

Panic?

 

No... I open a beer!

 

:lol: Those are both valid options. :);)

[ishtmail]

statrekmike:

 

Where did you get the idea that ED changed their plans on DCS F15C and DCS SU27?

 

From everything that was written, it's obvious that both proper DCS modules are in fact going to happen. But, being DCS modules, their development will take TIME (as in YEARS).

 

During the development of DCS modules, AFM will be developed for these two planes. This AFM will be applied to standalone lo-fidelity modules of F15C and SU27.

 

So, again, what exactly has changed concerning DCS F15C and DCS SU27? Where did anyone write that those two WILL NOT happen? Quite the opposite, Wags specifically stated that THEY WILL happen.

 

Help us, Jebus...

[Weta43]

But they haven't said

"(we're) going from DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 to just the F-15C and Su-27"

, they've said

"before we do the fast mover you were all expecting, we're going to initially release an AFM F-15 and Su-27, then some time after the plane you were expecting, we'll do a DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27"

 

<edit>seems Ishtmail is a faster typer than me....</edit>

[statrekmike]

statrekmike:

 

Where did you get the idea that ED changed their plans on DCS F15C and DCS SU27?

 

From everything that was written, it's obvious that both proper DCS modules are in fact going to happen. But, being DCS modules, their development will take TIME (as in YEARS).

 

During the development of DCS modules, AFM will be developed for these two planes. This AFM will be applied to standalone lo-fidelity modules of F15C and SU27.

 

So, again, what exactly has changed concerning DCS F15C and DCS SU27? Where did anyone write that those two WILL NOT happen? Quite the opposite, Wags specifically stated that THEY WILL happen.

 

Help us, Jebus...

 

But they haven't said

"(we're) going from DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 to just the F-15C and Su-27"

, they've said

"before we do the fast mover you were all expecting, we're going to initially release an AFM F-15 and Su-27, then some time after the plane you were expecting, we'll do a DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27"

 

<edit>seems Ishtmail is a faster typer than me....</edit>

 

 

I never said anything about DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 not coming out at all, at no point did I say that.

 

What I did say is that there was a change in the overall presentation of the plan, instead of getting a DCS level aircraft right up front, we would be getting it in stages and even then, and lets be honest here, it is going to be a long way off until we actually see a full DCS level F-15C and Su-27.

 

This kind of news is still a bit of a shock, we are aware that work either continues or will eventually start (another issue entirely) on DCS F/A-18C but to go from what amounts to "hey, we have DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 in the making" to "We are going to release this now and get back to it at another time" (yes, I was paraphrasing) is jarring and makes one a bit hesitant to get excited about stuff like that again.

 

Now, as I said before, I am not accusing ED of lying, I am just saying that this change in presentation is kinda tough to swallow after such a long wait already for a DCS level fast mover, we are all excited for the next bit of news but until we know more, it is looking like a much longer wait than we expected (due to not a lot of news releases in the past).

 

I don't think ED owes my anything (other than what I expect from every business) and nor am I just complaining to be a jerk or to start a fight, I am simply telling you WHY I and some others here feel a little sad about all this.

'

We are aware that DCS aircraft are coming but we went from not knowing much of anything for awhile (until the recent change in information release policy) to hearing that it is indeed going to be a very long wait (at least until we know more about the F/A-18 development status) and that is saddening as we are all very excited (again, ED is the only show in town for study sim aircraft these days).

 

I am not attacking anyone here or saying that ED is in the wrong, please keep that in mind.

[Yskonyn]

Very eloquently put.

[pepin1234]

My question is, what happen with the two letters of the Su-27. Before was mention Su-27SM and now only Su-27.

 

If the plans are changed , it is all right, but at least tell us what happen with the SM version.

 

I think ED have the rights, to do money with the Su-27/F-15 AFM. But people where is the problem in this point?? They will do the F-18 too... All that take time... Why not some Add-ons to make money. Volk this is a business

Edited May 9, 2013 by pepin1234

[ishtmail]

What I did say is that there was a change in the overall presentation of the plan, instead of getting a DCS level aircraft right up front, we would be getting it in stages and even then, and lets be honest here, it is going to be a long way off until we actually see a full DCS level F-15C and Su-27.

You DON'T get it.

 

There is no change in the overall plan.

 

There would be no DCS level airplane right up front no matter what, because developing a DCS level airplane takes time. This process lasts over a year. So, it will be a long way off until a DCS aircraft arrives IN ANY CASE.

Do you think that if ED didn't decide for lo-fi versions initially, that DCS versions would be ready to fly next year?

 

Now, I suppose you'd rather read this sort of update from Wags:

"We're developing a DCS SU27 and DCS F15C. They will be ready in two years. See you in 2015. There will be no further updates until then. Bye bye."

 

I think this sounds better:

""We're developing a DCS SU27 and DCS F15C. They will be ready in two years. In the mean time, AFM developed for these two DCS titles will be added to low fidelity modules, which will be released later this year."

 

 

There is no change of plans. Low fidelity modules WILL NOT delay DCS modules. Releasing lo-fi modules does not mean 'they will stop developing DCS modules until lofi modules are released'. Quite the opposite: AFM, developed for DCS modules, will be added to lofi modules. Just an added bonus!

 

I just don't understand your mode of thinking here...

[Rincevent]

My question is, what happen with the two letters of the Su-27. Before was mention Su-27SM and now only Su-27.

 

If the plans are changed , it is all right, but at least tell us what happen with the SM version.

 

In the DCS World Overview video posted by Matt he stated that the SU-27SM and the F/A-18C and F-15 were created by ED and their "partners".

As Matt never referenced to their SU-27 (nor in the video nor in updates) as a SU-27SM, I guess the SM will come from a 3rd party. At least that's how I understood it.

[pepin1234]

In the DCS World Overview video posted by Matt he stated that the SU-27SM and the F/A-18C and F-15 were created by ED and their "partners".

As Matt never referenced to their SU-27 (nor in the video nor in updates) as a SU-27SM, I guess the SM will come from a 3rd party. At least that's how I understood it.

 

Gotcha. Very excited with all the plans :thumbup:

[statrekmike]

You DON'T get it.

 

There is no change in the overall plan.

 

There would be no DCS level airplane right up front no matter what, because developing a DCS level airplane takes time. This process lasts over a year. So, it will be a long way off until a DCS aircraft arrives IN ANY CASE.

Do you think that if ED didn't decide for lo-fi versions initially, that DCS versions would be ready to fly next year?

 

Now, I suppose you'd rather read this sort of update from Wags:

"We're developing a DCS SU27 and DCS F15C. They will be ready in two years. See you in 2015. There will be no further updates until then. Bye bye."

 

I think this sounds better:

""We're developing a DCS SU27 and DCS F15C. They will be ready in two years. In the mean time, AFM developed for these two DCS titles will be added to low fidelity modules, which will be released later this year."

 

 

There is no change of plans. Low fidelity modules WILL NOT delay DCS modules. Releasing lo-fi modules does not mean 'they will stop developing DCS modules until lofi modules are released'. Quite the opposite: AFM, developed for DCS modules, will be added to lofi modules. Just an added bonus!

 

I just don't understand your mode of thinking here...

 

 

No, I do get it, I understand it very clearly.

 

Why are you trying to pick a fight here? I am essentially telling you that I understand that WE ARE INDEED GETTING the eventual release of a DCS level F-15C and Su-27, I only expressed that we were saddened that we would have to wait much longer than we had expected.

 

You keep acting like I am stupid, like I don't understand that building a game takes time, I will say this bluntly, NOBODY here thinks this way, we ALL know that it takes a lot of time, effort and resources to construct such complex simulations.

 

We are merely saddened because it seems that they are not as far into the development cycle as we all thought they were, I mean, we did not get a lot of news from ED up until the start of this new policy recently and as such, we made the (mistaken) assumption that work was perhaps further along than it actually was, we thought that work has started after A-10C was released (perhaps not by the whole staff) and was still steaming along to now.

 

Instead we are presented with a situation where the wait is going to be much longer than we initially calculated, perhaps by a factor of years instead of months.

 

I am not saying that ED lied or that we expect a sim to be made in a matter of months, you need to get hat idea out of your head because nobody is thinking it, we were merely mistaken (understandably) and assumed that work was further along and that is why we were kinda sad to see that it is going to be a long haul till the finish line.

 

Again, I am not fighting with anyone here, I understand the situation, I am merely explaining the reason for the feeling that I and a few others here on this thread have, no need to act like we are all ignorant when we are very aware of what is going on.

[npole]

Hello guys, i'm trying to understand what's happening, but reading the "news" isn't that easy. I'm asking because I wanted to try FC3, but...

 

....what I understood is (please correct me if i'm wrong):

 

1) We have a Su-27 and a F-15C (along with other planes...) in FC3 already;

 

2) They are going to release again the Su-27 and the F-15C, but this time with a "advanced flight model", so they should be the same models, but with a more realistic "physics". They did not specified if a FC3 customer will have to pay again for them.

 

3) They are going to release for the third time (!), again those Su-27 and F-15C, this time at "DCS level" (with the full clickable interiors.. like the A-10C...). Again we don't know if these modules will be sold separately, if the FC3 will receive a discount or what.

 

Is the above correct? And if it is correct, in the worst scenario, if I buy FC3 today, I may need to pay more money to have the improved model, and eventually more money again to purchase (finally) the most advanced ones. To no count the fact that in MP (in the future) I may find ppl with the same airplane but with different physics, etc.

 

I'm confused... :\

[ishtmail]

Hold on:

 

Why would we have to wait much longer than we had expected for DCS modules?

We all knew that work has not yet begun on DCS F15C and DCS SU27. We all know that developing DCS titles can take a hardened team like ED a year or more. There was never any doubt about the time it will take, never has anyone mentioned months for a DCS module.

 

In best case scenario, we would get DCS F15C and DCS SU27 in late 2014 or early 2015.

 

Questions for you:

- At what point did you expect these two DCS modules sooner?

- What exactly gave you the idea that these DCS modules would/might be released any time soon?

- Where did you get the information or notion that it would take 'months' to develop DCS F15C and DCS SU27?

 

And what exactly has changed with the announcement of lo-fidelity modules? Nothing. These two DCS modules will be developed in exactly the same time frame as they would be without lo-fidelity modules. Why? Because releasing lo-fi modules will not take any time from DCS development - this bonus is only going to harvest AFM which is being developed for DCS modules anyway, and integrate it into existing FC3 airplanes.

 

In fact, there is only one thing that will delay DCS F15C and DCS SU27: and that's DCS FA18. which, as I understand, will come out first, before any other DCS modules developed by ED.

[Yskonyn]

No need to restart this all again, Isht.

All your questions have been answered, in multiple different ways. Read back this thread, please. Stop trying to pick a fight.