Rogue Trooper Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 but if the model can be more HUEY... then I'm in! HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
IonicRipper Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Can't go wrong for 20 bucks i5 4590 @ 3.77GHz | GTX 1060 6GB | 16GB 1600MHz DDR3 | 1TB HDD+500GB HDD | Win10 Home X64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Weta43 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 If anything, a heavier helicopter would need to produce more lift to hover, meaning more induced flow velocity, meaning more difficult to enter VRS. Other way round - heavier helicopter on the same rotor = easier to enter VRS. Cheers.
Garuda Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 For me it is easy to avoid VRS as I concentrate on not hitting too high a negative VVI whilst decelerating. I find transition smooth and clean and I just rarely see VRS. I always concentrate on an fixed external object. Perhaps I adapted to the FM in my virtual cockpit world. Perhaps my choppers weight stops me getting into VRS. but to answer your question: yes I need to really push it to enter VRS. And yes once I made the mistake of getting into VRS I find it hard.... very hard to get out off it.... Inertia. A smooth transition is important, much the same in real helicopters. I feel the transition to airspeeds below ETL is much rougher in DCS Huey right now than it should be, based on my own experience. It is not impossible, but I find that while most other aspects of flying the sim Huey are very similar to flying an R44, the transition through ETL when slowing down is many times more difficult. I will note that transitioning from a hover to airspeeds above ETL feels very similar to what I expect it to be like. I agree that once you're in VRS it is not easy to recover, but my concern is how quickly it develops. Other way round - heavier helicopter on the same rotor = easier to enter VRS. I did not mean to imply a heavier load on the same helicopter, but rather a larger helicopter compared to a smaller helicopter. For example, an Mi-26 would need a higher rate of descent in an OGE hover to enter a VRS than an R22.
Sundowner.pl Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Other way round - heavier helicopter on the same rotor = easier to enter VRS.The descent velocity threshold at which a helicopter "fall through" into VRS rises with the gross weight. The heavier the machine with same rotor (and engines) the easier it is to enter Settling With Power, not VRS. This is what I believe is the problem here, many people are throwing themselves into situations where they simply don't have enough power to get out off, adding to that heavy loadout (19-tube FFAR launchers) and people run out of power very quickly unable to arrest the descent, and then call it VRS - which is not. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
26-J39 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 wow.. nice thread. lol... I think some of u folk need more stick time, flight hrs on the dcs forum dont count. ;)
Golo Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) easier it is to enter Settling With Power, not VRS. Wait a sec, what ? I thought its the same thing. BTW its realy no problem, I have to be realy careless and distracted by something to enter VRS at any time. Transition out of ETL is somewhat trickier, it places me all over the place if not managed carefuly, but not real problem either. Edited June 15, 2013 by Golo
Sundowner.pl Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 It was one and the same in the 1950s, when the US Army handbooks were written :smilewink: Today those phenomena are a bit better understood and defined. You settle with power, when you simply have not enough mechanical horses to arrest your descent - and you can get out of it simply applying collective - if you have enough room to do so. And you're in VRS when the rotor is eating its own downwash, and applying collective only make things worse. BTW there are anecdotes, that some helicopters can power through the VRS, such example is said to be unloaded CH-54 Tarhe (S-54 Skycrane) but those anecdotes date to 1970s when the VRS phenomena was still un-researched, applying more power in fully developed VRS shouldn't really help at all. What I recently found out with the DCS Huey, is that the VRS entering envelope is tightly tied to ETL. Once you go out of ETL you're entering VRS danger area, which is really weird, because there is no way that with let's say 15kts airspeed across the rotor disc, any helicopter could enter VRS... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
Golo Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) So to get it straight, If I am in hover and lower collective a bit I enter Settling with power which is perfectly controled flight until my vertical velocity will reach number where VRS is developed (eating own downwash) then I have a problem. If so I already knew that except the fact that its called settling with power. Good info thx :thumbup: Edited June 15, 2013 by Golo
jib Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I know the Heuy AFM is still WIP but one thing I think people may have underestimated is that you are missed a very important sense when flying on a PC. Unless you have spent £6500 on a Motion Platform you are not going to feel any G-forces. there are millions of nerves in you body that can sense small changed in the G-loads when you are actually sitting in a helicopter, but in a SIM you are probebly dropping alot before you even start noticing it, which makes it much easier to enter VRS. Mods I use: KA-50 JTAC - Better Fire and Smoke - Unchain Rudder from trim KA50 - Sim FFB for G940 - Beczl Rocket Pods Updated! Processor: Intel Q6600 @ 3.00GHz GPU: GeForce MSI RTX 2060 6GB RAM: Crucial 8GB DDR2 HDD: 1TBGB Crucial SSD OS: Windows 10, 64-bit Peripherals: Logitech G940 Hotas, TrackiR 5, Voice Activated commands , Sharkoon 5.1 headset. ,Touch Control for iPad, JoyToKey
Sundowner.pl Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 So to get it straight, If I am in hover and lower collective a bit I enter Settling with power which is perfectly controled flight until my vertical velocity will reach number where VRS is developed (eating own downwash) then I have a problem.Pretty much yes. You can practice by hovering at ~2000ft above the ground or more, and descending at a constant rate, each time higher, and you'll see how the helicopter responds between 0-500fpm, 500-1000 fpm, and above 1000 fpm. Anyway for a more in-depth description I recommend getting Shawn Coyle book "The Art and Science of Flying Helicopters". [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
Mogster Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 but I agree with all those who want this to be as realistic as possible, not difficult just for the sake of being difficult +1
outlawal2 Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 OK so after a lot of thought I decided to take a closer look at the version of DCS I am using and yep it is the latest and greatest... HOWEVER... Since there doesn't seem to be a way to figure out the last revision # for the individual modules installed.. (At least I can't figure out how to do this) I decided to look at what the latest download revision is compared to the one I used when I last loaded DCS... Interestingly, the one I used ended in 168 and the latest download is 186.. So I downloaded 186, fully uninstalled the previous module, rebooted and reloaded the latest and greatest and guess what? I have not augered into the ground EVEN ONE TIME since re-installing the latest module.. As a matter of fact I have not even gotten a single whiff of VRS or settling with power issues... NO IDEA WHY, but it appears that the auto-updater although appearing to work fine is not.. (At least for me anyway.) And yes I tried multiple times to manually force DCS to look for any updates and all appeared to be well.. So for anyone out there that agreed that there may be something wrong, I strongly urge you to try what I tried and see if it resolves the issue for you as well as this is much more enjoyable now that I am not hitting VRS every time I blink my friggin eyes... "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
TimeKilla Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) I think that deserves a sorry for all the time you called everyone out.. :thumbup: Just pop it in my pm. :P Just kidding glad you got it sorted out. :) Edited June 16, 2013 by TimeKilla My Inf style spelling. :joystick: YouTube :pilotfly: TimeKilla on Flight Sims over at YouTube.
outlawal2 Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) I think that deserves a sorry for all the time you called everyone out.. :thumbup: Just pop it in my pm. :P Just kidding glad you got it sorted out. :) Guess that works both ways.. For all those folks that said it was my flying, my technique, that I didn't understand this was a simulation etc... OK I do apologize, but there truly WAS an issue... Just not the one I thought it was... Really hard to determine... I'll bet others are feeling the same pain as well so hopefully they will read this and get some resolution as well.. Edited June 16, 2013 by outlawal2 "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
Irregular programming Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Wait a sec, what ? I thought its the same thing. BTW its realy no problem, I have to be realy careless and distracted by something to enter VRS at any time. Transition out of ETL is somewhat trickier, it places me all over the place if not managed carefuly, but not real problem either. It's not technically the same, Vortex ring state describes an aerodynamical situation where you are descending into your own down wash. Settling with (insufficient) power is when you simply don't have enough power to maintain flight. The effect is basically the same.
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