F/A-18C donations

[howie87]

Due to the recent controversy over 'mid fidelity modules' and news that work on a high fidelity F/A-18C will be an extremely long and expensive process, I propose setting up a donation fund to offset development costs and give people the opportunity to stop complaining and "put their money where their mouth is".

 

This would not be a kick starter or a pre order. It would be a simple cash offering as a means to ensure continued funding towards a niche product that many of us are extremely enthusiastic about.

 

I know many people can't or won't support this, but I just wanted to gauge public reaction and hear some thoughts (assuming that ED would even accept such a donation).

 

Over to you...

[falcon_120]

It could be a good idea, but I don't know how much success could it get.

[112th_Rossi]

I'm sure ED/TFC investors have it covered. Donations could imply some kind of entitlement, more than is already conveyed by some users on this forum, which would open a large can of worms.

[Kuky]

I think this was brought up before and if I recall correctly ED have said they do not wish to setup any new accounts etc for something like this (donations) and that instead if you wish to support them more simply buy one (or more) of their products

 

PS: I do understand your idea though, people thought of it before and if ED ever decided to setup donation page, I would gladly chip something in.

[159th_Viper]

Buy a module or two or even three every month. It all adds up.

[Keyser]

Let me first say, I am personally only interested in high-fidelity products and I understand that ED is pretty much the only game in town. Yes, there's BMS, but from personal experience, I'd say the level of realism in BMS is around 75-85% of DCS and I'm not sure the engine has much more room to go anywhere.

 

Having said that, making simulations is a business and I am a customer. I don't believe it makes sense, nor is in anybody's long-term interest, to bring donations into it. The incentive structure is all wrong.

If something like this were to happen, there needs to be accountability. I would not at all be opposed to a form of crowdfunding (I regularly crowdfund games), even one that leaves the artistic decisions 100% in EDs hands. But, I do expect to get something from giving my money to a company and I expect there to be a contract (between the CF-platform and the petitioner, as is usually the case) to settle where my money is going, i.e. towards a specific module.

 

In the end, I don't think donating to a company makes for a healthy business relationship and I don't think it leads to the best possible products.

[howie87]

I'm sure ED/TFC investors have it covered. Donations could imply some kind of entitlement, more than is already conveyed by some users on this forum, which would open a large can of worms.

 

Yeah, I anticipated this one. It's a fair point and one that I'm sure others will have thought of too. I guess the best way to think of it would be a good will gesture. No obligations, targets, goals or freebies.

 

There's always going to be people who expect an instant return on their investment or preferential treatment of some kind. It's a sad but unavoidable fact of life.

[q800]

Been discussed many times before. There will be good product released, i'll put my money in. Not before. Stop stupidly throwing money at anyone. It ain't no good. It's not going to push anything faster or better. It's shooting yourself in the foot.

It's a full grown company with government contracts, ffs.

[112th_Rossi]

On the flip side, I would consider pledging to a kickstarter style fund. I don't think ED will do this, nor do they need to. But if a third party (a reputable one with demonstrable experience in this field) was to propose building a module that I was interested in, I would consider investing in it.

[Erforce]

i have two times BS2 and A10... but i only play BS2 solo.

If i buy P51D for support, i don't want them to think "oh, look P51D sales tripled this month" we'll make spitfir asap.

 

They know almost everybody will buy EDGE and F18. i don't think they're worried about that.

[howie87]

Buy a module or two or even three every month. It all adds up.

 

While I agree with this approach in theory, I think a specific donation for the Hornet would allow people to feel like they were putting their money in the direction they want it to go, rather than simply swaying sales figures.

 

This has come to light recently with the release of information stating that FC3 has been one of ED's most popular products. This has left some fans of the high fidelity modules (many of whom purchased FC3 just to support for ED) feeling as if they have become an unprofitable minority.

[OttoPus]

Buy a module or two or even three every month. It all adds up.

 

This

[jp203000]

Pre-order, like what they do for DCS-mig21 , that's a good idea.

[ishtmail]

There is no need for a special account for crowdfunding. Apply the project through Kickstarter and everything is taken care of over there: people see what the total tally of the crowdfunding is (transparency), ED gets a complete database of people who purchased / pledged, and if the Kickstarter project reaches its funding goal, money gets released to ED, who is then obligated to finish the project and deliver the 'rewards' to the pledgers, in the time frame set for the project campaign (for example, ED could promise to deliver a beta DCS FA18 by early 2014).

 

In the end, such crowdfunding isn't 'donation' per-se, it's more 'pre-purchase'.

 

 

The idea that we should buy modules to support ED is a good one, but some people would rather pledge a proper amount of money for a specific project (not me, I buy everything :) ).

Also, some of us have already bought every module in the DCS roster, leaving us with nothing more to buy to support ED further. Buying a second copy of A10C just seems redundant...

 

 

I've made a suggestion of how the Kickstarter project could look like, and what pledge amounts would work (and what rewards might be interesting). Now, in that suggestion I mentioned giving Alpha testing to a limited number of pledgers (that donate more money), which someone from the team dismissed (ED wouldn't give access to Alpha testing).

Even without Alpha testing, a nice pledge scheme might be drafted... I mean, there are so many options of what ED could offer as rewards... Existing modules for DCS World, upcoming lofi modules, special limited packages in cooperation with TrackIR and/or Thrustmaster...

 

For example:

 

Kickstarter project: DCS F/A 18, to be developed and released for beta testing in early 2014.

 

Rewards:

$15 - a low fidelity standalone module for DCS World of SU27 or F15C with AFM

$30 - any of the existing standalone DCS modules developed by ED so far (choice of BS2, A10C, P51D)

$60 - DCS FA18 plus access to beta testing

$150 - DCS FA18 with beta access, physical box release with a printed manual

$350 - DCS FA18 with beta access, physical release with printed manual plus ALL existing modules for DCS World by ED (FC3, DCS A10C, DCS BS2, DCS P51D, CA, SU27, F15C)

$600 - limited package (5 pieces) that includes the latest TrackIR, plus everything from the $350 package

$900 - limited package (5 pieces) that includes TM Warthog, plus everything from the $350 package

$1200 - limited package, everything from the $350 package, plus a 3D model of FA18

$2000 - limited package, everything from the $350 package, plus a 3D model of FA18, plus a 1 hour video chat with Wags and the developers, plus a hand-signed (by the devs) B2 format poster of DCS F/A 18

$7000 - limited package (2 pieces): everything from the 2000 package, with a payed trip to ED's headquarters in Moscow

$15000 - limited package (2 pieces): everything from the 2000 package, with a payed trip to Duxford UK, and a 1-hour flight in one of the 2-seater airplanes owned by The Fighter Collection

$25.000 - limited package (2 pieces): everything from the 2000 package, with a payed trip to Moscow to visit ED's headquarters, and a flight in a real SU27 airplane, with in-cockpit video memorabilia of the flight (courtesy of http://www.flymig.com)

 

 

ED in collaboration with Thrustmaster, TrackIR and Fighter Collection could really spice up these pledges.

[Yellonet]

I've said this before, but I think a kickstarter for F/A-18C would be a good idea.

 

The great thing about kickstarter projects is that the developer actually gets the funds they need before they create the product, thus eliminating the problem of gathering money for the development as it goes on.

 

The downside of course is that they need to set a estimated time of when the product will be done, the easy way out would just be to set this further into the future than you think you'll need to complete the module.

 

Just donating money... I don't see that as a realistic alternative to get any meaningful amount of money.

[Yellonet]

<snip> DCS F/A 18, to be developed and released for beta testing in early 2014.

I'd be surprised if the F/A-18C will be out in beta that soon. It's probably more likely to be 2015 or 2016.

Possibly even further down the road.

Remember, there are lots of areas to develop besides just the aircraft.

 

• A2A radar may need some further development.
  
• Ground radar needs to be developed.
  
• Carrier operations.
  
• EDGE?
  
• More that I've not thought about?
  

Edited May 10, 2013 by Yellonet

[q800]

Jesus.... please, stop this kickstarter, donating or throwing money bullshit...

[howie87]

Great idea but I doubt ED would go for this. At the end of the day they want to run the company the way they know how and we're just the consumers.

 

That's why I suggested a donation. Minimal effort on their part, no contractual obligations and it gives us more 'enthusiastic' types a way of supporting the products we want to see without putting pressure on the company.

[Yellonet]

Jesus.... please, stop this kickstarter, donating or throwing money bullshit...

Kickstarter is neither a donation or throwing money away, it's just a pre-purchase ensuring that the funding of the project is met.

No worries for ED and no worries for the customer is a good thing :)

[Rusty_M]

I don't see the logic in donations. ED is a business, not a charity. They get their money in exchange for goods.

 

Kick starter could work, but it blurs the lines between investor and customer. It begs the question of whether you're a shareholder or just someone buying something.

 

Personally, I'm moving away from even pre ordering games. I don't tend to buy them unless I get something to play at the time of payment (hence my pre purchase of ArmA3 and the Huey). I'm quite uneasy about the whole crowd funding idea in general. It's setting a precedent by making consumers take greater risk.

[howie87]

Jesus.... please, stop this kickstarter, donating or throwing money bullshit...

 

I can understand your concern. If you're half as generous with your money as you are with your opinions, you must be a very poor man.

[q800]

Kickstarter is neither a donation or throwing money away, it's just a pre-purchase ensuring that the funding of the project is met.

No worries for ED and no worries for the customer is a good thing :)

 

It's the same, it's paying for something that you've got no guarantee to get in any reasonable time. This is good for small studios, some passionate guys who creates some indie stuff after full time job, not a goddamn full grown commercial company with government top secret contracts. Stop behave like children.

[q800]

I can understand your concern. If you're half as generous with your money as you are with your opinions, you must be a very poor man.

 

No i'm not generous. Always pay for things i get the same day. That makes me a bit richer.

Again, throwing money at them will not make things go faster.

Edited May 10, 2013 by q800

[howie87]

No i'm not generous. Always pay for things i get the same day. That makes me a bit richer.

 

Good for you. I hope it makes you happy.

[159th_Viper]

......rather than simply swaying sales figures.

 

It's not a matter of swaying sales figures: Rather, it provides a steady monthly cash flow that might ensure less reliance on med-fid modules to fund development of the hi-fid F-18, ie F-18 gets here faster.