Archaic Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 At what altitude is it better to use the 105 over the 97? What other scenarios might call for the 105? i7 - 9700k | EVGA 1080Ti | 32 DDR4 RAM | 750w PS | TM Warthog HOTAS/X-55 | Track IR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I like the 105 because I can drop it from outside SHORAD altitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaic Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 What's the transition altitude where it's better to use the 105, though? i7 - 9700k | EVGA 1080Ti | 32 DDR4 RAM | 750w PS | TM Warthog HOTAS/X-55 | Track IR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganus Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Don't think of it as a more accurate dumb bomb. The 105 kit makes it a guided weapon. So speed, altitude, and/or weather conditions can be compensated for. Within reason of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaic Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 It's more accurate over a certain altitude, as the factors you mention will continue to be exponentially exaggerated. I'm just wondering when it's better to use 105s. Over 10,000? i7 - 9700k | EVGA 1080Ti | 32 DDR4 RAM | 750w PS | TM Warthog HOTAS/X-55 | Track IR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 It's more accurate over a certain altitude, as the factors you mention will continue to be exponentially exaggerated. I'm just wondering when it's better to use 105s. Over 10,000? I can't think of any factors that would propose such an "transistion altitude". The 105 is the same as the 97 but has additional capabilities. Therefore, the 105 is "always" better than the 97 - at least if it comes to accuracy. What do you have in mind when you say over a certain altitude you better use the 105? This implies, that below that altitude, the 97 would be better? Why? What factors should that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick-X Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The only advantage of the 97 would be, that it is droppable in CCIP (if it was correctly computed). This comes in handy if you want to attack moving targets for example, although you still have to compensate for the time required for the bomblets to aim and fire. In every other situation the 105 is in advantage because of the inertial guidance. It will hit the aimed spot even with heavy winds (i dont know if drift of the bomblets is corrected though). You can drop a 97 from high altitudes, if there is extremely low or no wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtraChrisP Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Bomblet drift is not corrected. Make sure you take this into account when you set your SPI, as this is the CBU's activation point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Bomblet drift is not corrected. Make sure you take this into account when you set your SPI, as this is the CBU's activation point. In the real aircraft does the LASTE system account for the bomblets I wonder? Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieMuntz Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Took the words out of my mouth P*Funk, Since reading the tutorial on entering wind values into the laste page, and making a routine of start up, Does this increase accuracy of the WKMD aswell as Mk82s? Also is there a tut on changing the HOF value and what the best value is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick-X Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Took the words out of my mouth P*Funk, Since reading the tutorial on entering wind values into the laste page, and making a routine of start up, Does this increase accuracy of the WKMD aswell as Mk82s? Also is there a tut on changing the HOF value and what the best value is? LASTE wont have effect on any guided munitions as they are already correcting for drift. It is called Wind Korrected Munitions Dispenser for a reason ^^ I already asked this question in a LASTE thread but noone answered... How do I get accurate Wind data? I usually note Wind on different Layers and then do the laste-input, because as soon as you input anything into LASTE, the Wind-Data shown on the WP-Page is affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieMuntz Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I thought the wind correction was due to the panel and not pre installed on the the munition, my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApoNOOB Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 The manual input in the LASTE system is not modded as was stated by ED. There was this one patchnote that suggested that something was done in the direction but nobody from ED ever stated to my knowledge that manual LASTE input has now ANY effect. Please if there is no official statement - accept it. This horse has been beaten to death and dispelling the LASTE myth the first time around was hard enough. On topic: The first scenario comes to mind, you have 3 tanks close together, but some strelas around it - good scenario for CCRP drop of the 105er. Second scenario, you have 6 tanks in a column, that maybe is even moving - wonderful for 97's. On a side note, when I started of course I couldn't hit anything if I didn't use CCRP. 105ers were the best choice because I could actually kill something. (Not counting mavs) But destroying stuff with CCIP CBU drops is just so rewarding, I really only take 105ers if I know the scenario dictates it (threat). Sidenote: Never forget to change the HoF in the DSMS inventory or otherwise those nice bombs suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Pv- Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 My experience (for what it's worth- not much) is guided weapons in general do poorly under 12K ft because they need that much room to maneuver. 12K+ has the added advantage that it's harder for ground bullets to ht you on the attack. -Pv- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 LASTE wont have effect on any guided munitions as they are already correcting for drift. It is called Wind Korrected Munitions Dispenser for a reason ^^ Well the CBU-97 isn't WCMD, nor is the 87. So what I'm wondering is what is the computed pipper supposedly representing with CBUs? Is it an impact point for a CBU which doesn't deploy but instead flies like a dud straight into the ground, or is it the centre of a projected area of effect for the dispersed bomblets? Its a valid question, and the presence of WCMD doesn't invalidate it either. The kit on the ordnance might be guiding it, but the aircraft itself is still going to do calculations on its end of what would happen if things went according to plan based on available data like winds and inertial tracking. Also, with a WCMD kit where is it going? Its going where you're telling it to go, so the pipper's position is as important to the WCMD calculations as it is to you. So again, what is the pipper meant to represent in terms of the weapon's effect? I can't remember if WCMD is CCRP only since I never use them. Nevertheless, CCIP plus 87/97 -> What is the pipper projecting? PS. I'm bearing in mind throughout this that what occurs in game may not be accurately modeled to what is meant to happen as well. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick-X Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 My experience (for what it's worth- not much) is guided weapons in general do poorly under 12K ft because they need that much room to maneuver. 12K+ has the added advantage that it's harder for ground bullets to ht you on the attack. -Pv- They do well from lower altitudes aswell, you just have to drop them as acurate as possible. The less they have to correct for, the better they do with a short flight Well the CBU-97 isn't WCMD, nor is the 87. So what I'm wondering is what is the computed pipper supposedly representing with CBUs? Is it an impact point for a CBU which doesn't deploy but instead flies like a dud straight into the ground, or is it the centre of a projected area of effect for the dispersed bomblets? Never claimed they are... From my experience it shows the release point of the Bomblets, so the point where the Dispenser opens and releases the bomblets. I'm pretty sure this is it, because you can see the Hull of the Dispenser impacting past this point. I'm not sure how it corrects for wind and if there is any difference from 97 to 105. So I GUESS you have to manually correct for bomblet drift. But I'm not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 From my experience it shows the release point of the Bomblets, so the point where the Dispenser opens and releases the bomblets. I'm pretty sure this is it, because you can see the Hull of the Dispenser impacting past this point. I'm not sure how it corrects for wind and if there is any difference from 97 to 105. So I GUESS you have to manually correct for bomblet drift. But I'm not sure The bomblet release alt being the pipper point for me seems troublesome if its not wind corrected. With a height of function at 3000 a parachute has the potential to drift pretty far. It would be fascinating to see what the real system is supposed to function like and then compare it to what we have. In general CCIP still has a lot of quirks in it, which is unfortunate as I suspect many of them will go unfixed. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick-X Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Windcorrecting the dispenser is a whole lot easier than correcting dispenser and bomblets. The bomblet itself uses the chute only to create spacing between the bomblets. These release submunitions which contain sensors and munitions. So I'd guess there is no extra correction for the submunitions as it is complicated and would perhaps not add much accuracy. But still just a guess of mine... The total time the submunition is heavily windaffected because of the chute is quite low because the chute is released when the rocketmotor ignites to stop the decend. If you watch a CBU 97/105 from fuse to explosion you can see the bomblets on chutes till the explosion of the submunitions, but the explosions aren't directly underneath the chutes. I didn't do any deep testing on the CBU's... I tend to reduce the HoF in a funktion of targetspacing and windspeed. The results I get are mostly satisfying. As you said, CCIP has a lot of quirks... I guess the behaviour of the CBU97 in CCIP is one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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