If you could upgrade the Ka-50, what would you do?

[Flagrum]

1) Vikhr racks size updated from 6 to 8

2) Vikhr racks possible to mount on any pylong (4x8!)

3) Add a mast mounted camera/laser(?) like Kiowa Warrior with a IR capability, with 360 degree rotation.

4) Radar warning system and IR missile warning system

5) Warning panel updated to have 12 directions

6) HUD to fill whole front window

7) Skhval TV replaced with a 18-20" MFCD what is positioned just top of dashboard so it is directly below front window.

8) Link PVI-800 and ABRIS

9) Updated Skhval targeting algorithms so there is auto lock like Su-25T.

10) Add a switch what gives auto-pilot a 50-60% override of controls instead 20%

11) Keep 7x/23x step but add two steps more, a 1x step for close range engagements/spotting (you do want to pop-up behind hill just 300m from target and shoot it!) and 50x step for long range scanning/spotting.

12) Have a better (automatic) air target locking with Skhval with a larger targeting gate. It should be possible when most often air targets are clearly visible against sky (and this with IR camera especially possible).

13) Have a improved laser cooling system.

14) Have a pylons to rotate +-5 degree and level +15/-30 degree to allow a linked rocket targeting/aiming with a Skhval and engagements below without huge dives or while flying toward target nose down.

15) Add a button to stick what allows pilot easily mark spotted targets positions to ABRIS.

16) Possibility to carry a Ataka-V missiles, guided to target with radio with view what the mast camera could see (think about flying away after launch, mast rotating at target direction).

 

And most important:

 

17) Try K.I.S.S

Keep It Stupid Simple

 

Just like now, flying and operating KA-50 is damn simple.

 

Oh, and a almost forgot, a rear camera to replace those two submarine periscopes above pilot. With a press of a button MFCD would show feed from it, even better if it would be IR camera as well (think how small space those can be build today).

 

The mast mounted camera system of course would not be alone, I would still keep Skhval system below fuselag as secondary but add a updated KA-50 camera ball there so you can see below if wanted.

Your point 17 is incompatible with the rest ... :D

 

But anyways, what exactly do you mean with point 10? What would you expect from that?

[ShuRugal]

2) Vikhr racks possible to mount on any pylon

 

4) Radar warning system and IR missile warning system

 

7) Skhval TV replaced with a 18-20" MFCD what is positioned just top of dashboard so it is directly below front window.

 

12) Have a better (automatic) air target locking with Skhval with a larger targeting gate. It should be possible when most often air targets are clearly visible against sky (and this with IR camera especially possible).

 

13) Have a improved laser cooling system.

 

14) Have a pylons to rotate +-5 degree and level +15/-30 degree to allow a linked rocket targeting/aiming with a Skhval and engagements below without huge dives or while flying toward target nose down.

 

would love any one of these, certainly all of them would be amazing.

 

15) Add a button to stick what allows pilot easily mark spotted targets positions to ABRIS.

 

There already is one. Datalink panel: Select marker type, press save. Default KB bindings Shift+[1, 2, 3, 4] (armor, AAA, Other, Ingress Point)

 

8) Link PVI-800 and ABRIS

 

I actually like having these separate, both systems are a bit fragile, having one to back the other up is nice.

 

9) Updated Skhval targeting algorithms so there is auto lock like Su-25T.

how does this work, exactly? I've not played around with the Su-25 that much.

 

11) Keep 7x/23x step but add two steps more, a 1x step for close range engagements/spotting (you do want to pop-up behind hill just 300m from target and shoot it!) and 50x step for long range scanning/spotting.

 

yes yes a thousand times yes! having a zoom step-down for closeup engagements of low-threat targets would be temendously welcome.

 

But, of all of them...

3) Add a mast mounted camera/laser(?) like Kiowa Warrior with a IR capability, with 360 degree rotation.

 

This, while almost certainly too drastic a change to ever even consider, it would be far and away the most beneficial. Being able to mark targets from behind cover, buddy-lasing (at least with the KH-25) from a close up spotting position for wingmen in standoff position... lobbing vikhrs over a ridges and guiding them in from behind cover.... Never gonna happen though.

[Fri13]

Your point 17 is incompatible with the rest ... :D

 

Those would almost all be stupid simple, not requiring additional things to operate the vehicle like on american vehicles typically.

 

But anyways, what exactly do you mean with point 10? What would you expect from that?

 

It would smooth out more the pilot inputs and as well allow stronger autopilot control over vehicle if required.

[Fri13]

There already is one. Datalink panel: Select marker type, press save. Default KB bindings Shift+[1, 2, 3, 4] (armor, AAA, Other, Ingress Point)

 

Not on the stick itself but on datalink panel. Requiring you to move hand from throttle to separated panel.

Today a unit identification can be done pretty accurately from picture to database as there are limited models. It doesn't need to be more than just identifying a vehicle type, not variant type. So is it a truck, APC, MBT, Artillery etc automatically.

 

Of course you can bind them in game to stick/throttle/hat as wanted and the human pressing is 100% comparable to pilot identification skills without mistakes.

 

I actually like having these separate, both systems are a bit fragile, having one to back the other up is nice.

 

Some kind sync button would be nice, so you can just quickly point new points in PVI-800 and get them synced with a button.

 

 

how does this work, exactly? I've not played around with the Su-25 that much.

 

You place targeting gate near target and it jumps at it if is clear enough, and when you resize targeting gate it can as well lock the target.

Makes it easier to example lock on air target as you keep big gate first and when you decrease the size it locks to correct size on target.

In fast situations it feels good. But because Su-25T attacks from higher angle, it usually is firing missiles at higher angles and to top armor so there is no such difference where you hit. But with KA-50 it is great that you can maintain small control where you aim, especially when target is 45 degree on you, it is easier to choose do you aim to hull or turret or even between wheels below skirt armor. Of course a button like "A-A mode" or similar to enable that auto-lock would be enough. It could give those extra 1-2 seconds needed to lock a target close in quick situations when target suddenly spots you while you are aiming at it.

 

 

 

This, while almost certainly too drastic a change to ever even consider, it would be far and away the most beneficial. Being able to mark targets from behind cover, buddy-lasing (at least with the KH-25) from a close up spotting position for wingmen in standoff position... lobbing vikhrs over a ridges and guiding them in from behind cover.... Never gonna happen though.

 

Even just the rotating IP camera top of the mast would be huge benefit in scout tasks. No need to come visible and turn to see what is around and then complete pop-up/slide attacks as needed.

Of course the lasering could be a benefit if it would be possible firing Vikhr little upward and turn down to vertical flight to catch the beam (of course shooting with direction toward target if a must).

[Hunden Ynk]

Add a mast mounted camera/laser(?) like Kiowa Warrior with a IR capability, with 360 degree rotation.

The added height of an co-axial rotor design is already on its minus list compared to a traditional one rotor layout. It increases drag. That's one reason we got the retractable landing gear. Seems hard to mount sensor gear on top of that, if anything - it would look silly. ;)

 

Keep 7x/23x step but add two steps more, a 1x step for close range engagements/spotting (you do want to pop-up behind hill just 300m from target and shoot it!) and 50x step for long range scanning/spotting.

I'd love that! The 1x could even be useful when landing, rapidly reducing speed, etc, since the front view is quite frankly, crap. Wonder why it wasn't done, two lenses might be all that could possibly fit, and 7x/23x was chosen as the best compromise.

[Flagrum]

It would smooth out more the pilot inputs and as well allow stronger autopilot control over vehicle if required.

The dampening function of the AP does quite a good job on smoothing the pilot inputs. I can't see where more would be necessary. Same for the AP authority as such - where or when would you need that? For flying hands free in a hurricane?

[Fishbreath]

More collective/pitch authority would make it easier to use the radar altimeter altitude hold as poor man's terrain following, at least.

[Fri13]

The added height of an co-axial rotor design is already on its minus list compared to a traditional one rotor layout. It increases drag. That's one reason we got the retractable landing gear. Seems hard to mount sensor gear on top of that, if anything - it would look silly. ;)

 

 

The addition to drag is true, but I think its impact would be acceptable, after all the co-axial rotor adds extra-stability and a small round shape doesn't change its affect depending position.

 

What comes to look, I do as well believe it would look silly if it is a very huge. But if looking what they tested/visualized

 

I think that it would be acceptable.

But that of course would required to be bigger, not much.

But what Mi-28 got

 

I could accept that if it would have the laser capability and I would even allow 330km/h top speed to be 290-300km/h because that. :)

[Rogue Trooper]

For sure I would want a Radar warning and jamming system.

Better Night attack capability would be very nice indeed.

The possibility to put Shkvals on the inner weapon station!

 

Apart from those three, I love her as she is!

[Hunden Ynk]

Thanks for the Ka-52 picture Fri13 (love that chopper). Interesting, I thought it had the radar in its nose, perhaps that mast thingy is some other sensor? And no it doesn't look that ugly. ;)

I like the roof-mounted optics, there's also a version with that sensor mounted under the fuselage, which in pictures often is facing backwards - 360 vision (or just the caged position)?

 

[Fri13]

Thanks for the Ka-52 picture Fri13 (love that chopper). Interesting, I thought it had the radar in its nose, perhaps that mast thingy is some other sensor? And no it doesn't look that ugly. ;)

 

I believe it is a antenna for radar warning system for 360 degree. As it is so small that it can not house a radar system. But point was they have something attached on top of the mast.

The ground radar is on nose, what I always have found on every fighter jet so vulnerable to fire and on attack helicopter what is even more vulnerable to small caliber fire I don't get why it is on nose :)

 

I like the roof-mounted optics, there's also a version with that sensor mounted under the fuselage, which in pictures often is facing backwards - 360 vision (or just the caged position)?

 

 

I believe it depends from models and mainly for caging to secure the optics when no use from dirt etc gets on the optics. But that seem to be only with the earliest models like

 

 

But when comparing to other models what I believe you mean like:

 

 

It can be seen that the optics mounting is more below the vehicle so it can get much better side and rear view. And optics are protected by turning them upward toward fuselag.

 

Don't have now the URL for video from weapons shows where it was presented the optics system what is used now on KA-52 as well with accuracy of helmet mounted targeting. In video you could see the ball to rotate from upward direction to target heading.

 

Of course I like the idea that optics are below helicopter fuselag so it can have 360 degree view below, help in landing and rescue missions etc as the fuselag doesn't have any windows to below so they are difficult to land otherwise without autolanding functions.

 

But does people fly KA-50 like Apache or Kiowa, hiding behind trees or buildings just mast above to give line of sight?

 

As already the Vikhr huge benefit is the speed and range when compared to other missiles, even when against SAM systems it is faster than most (if not all) systems what requires targeting and firing what last longer than KA-50 can lock, fire and hit.

 

Would for me KA-52 be a dream one? Yes if I could fly it with pall in same manner (two seats side by side). But I really like the idea of KA-50 where single pilot does everything. KA-50 could be updated with a few modifications.

 

I have separated wishes about that mast mounted optics vs fuselag mounted.

And if it would be possible I would take both, so you can mount the optics to mast or to nose so you can choose how to apply them when going to mission :D

 

But a 1x wide angle FLIR from mast, above fuselag could help a a lot for pilot to land on moving positions as pilot can see helipad AND fuselag same time.

 

For me helicopter should not fly above 100m what is reason why I don't perfectly understand bombs in it or other gear what requires so high flying ;)

[ShuRugal]

But does people fly KA-50 like Apache or Kiowa, hiding behind trees or buildings just mast above to give line of sight?

 

well, since the KA-50 has no mast, no, it's kind of hard to do that. Gotta expose the whole chopper.

 

I have tried popping up behind a ridge to do this, leaving enough distance to drop back down in the even of SAM launch, but DCS SAM systems are just a bit too quick to pick up targets...

[Migow]

hi,

 

 

Fix all the bug that plagued the ka 50:(

• the shkval use image correlation so if i see a target it should be able to get a lock even helo etc... even in bad condition if i see it myself
  
• the distance informantion go wrong when we don't use the telemetry laser serious problem again
  
• the Wind calculation in PVI is not calculated in real time and we can't update manually obviously a bug somewhere
  
• the elevation in PVI is buggy when we enter attack point like -4000 meter Under the ground a real problem
  
• sometime the datalink change the target order , a problem especially when we think the ka50 was made without abris
  
• there is not fatigue structure especially when flying in extrem condition
  
• too much rotor rpm should break rotor
  
• rotor infinite inertia in autorotation
  
• blade flapping at more than 300 km/h should become hazard)
  
• vikhr do nothing on chopper with fuse , the fragmentation do nothing , iRL there is video , we can see a plane cut in two
  
• we can see in night with nvg target throught the shkval :should not happen
  
• nvg should be more affected by light in pit , if the light's brigtness are not lowered
  
• using apu just after starting without waiting 1 min should destroy apu?
  
• same with engine when raising the throttle
  

dcs world bug

• the tree line of sight problem , and we need more tree so the best would be a instead of individual tree after 1 or 2 km block of tree ugly but efficient especially in georgia there is only tree( like comanche vs hokum) and the tree need to be limited by server at 15km or 30km . :)
  
• in BS1 we can't communicate throught terrain , now we can ,seems like a regression
  
• better ai communication ,instead of telling the waypoint rofl:megalol:
  
• the ai most of the time are too fast for detection when we take control of a sa13 i lost almost all engagement ,the human helo know where i am (intel) they climb, the terrain protect them , shoot at 2 km , and i die without seeing them (without using the map fogofwar) , on the contrary the ai spot them immediately no surprise effect . when working with other unit it should be easier but with confusion should be a problem too there are too efficient ( and dumb they don't hide from enemy)
  

feature need to be completed::)

 

• INU with alignement ,error calculation with time etc..
  
• ice on windshield and with ice protection
  
• rain or snow on windshield
  
• k1 k2 mode on pvi : i guess the pvi can be update remotely by a controller on ground with relay a major feature for the ka50 you need ai (su24mr , reconnaissance helo or ground reco unit)do the reco intel and the controller send you the target on pvi update flight plan
  
• iff
  
• t818 encryption
  
• pilot be able to go out the pit on the ground
  
• electricity sensor
  
• any function can stop working a light ,a button, any system , especially before takeoff( weapon hung ) so we need testing the helo
  
• a logbook for the helo itself (so you take care)
  
• fac on the ground
  
• igla or archer
  
• rwr
  
• mws
  
• oxygen supply and pressurisation
  
• the shkval filter
  
• better ai wingman that use terrain hiding , NOE flying, able to attack in stationnary with order or while moving , one or multiple target in an attack depending order
  

Edited October 15, 2013 by Fifou265

[skouras]

igla or archer

[Devrim]

Shkval wiper. :)

[upupandaway]

hi,

 

 

Fix all the bug that plagued the ka 50:(

 

[...]

 

dcs world bug feature need to be completed::)

 

[...]

 

Some quite interesting points, especially the bug section. I like it, although I ges it´s quite unrealistic this will ever be implemented.

[Fishbreath]

You can actually use the Shkval at night without NVGs. Turn brightness all the way down and contrast all the way up, then turn brightness up until you can see something on the screen. It's basically just a contrast stretch. This wouldn't work for real, since there's noise in the actual system that isn't modeled.

 

That said, I don't want this fixed, even though it isn't realistic. Honestly, we're never going to get a Ka-50N or a Ka-50Sh, so on those grounds I definitely don't want to lose what rudimentary night attack capability we have.

 

I'd love a FAC that can use the datalink, though, as neat as the JTAC mod is.

[Flagrum]

I would like to have this working:

 

Flight manual p. 6-12 - 6-13

 

Left forward panel, switch 17: Missile warning system with laser jammer, self protection system mode of operation select, No function:cry:

[BitMaster]

ahhhaaa GREAT IDEA !!!

 

Spliff Holder & Roller "Combat Tested"

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

#1 would be a radar warning receiver !

 

I still ask myself why some mission planners want me to destroy a Patriot Site located on flat land where there is nowhere to hide.

 

All I see 0.02 sec before I die is the smoke trail of the Patriot missile hitting me without any warning.

 

Is this real, would a real KA50 pilot engage that SAM or better call for assistance ?

 

Bit

[sobek]

Is this real, would a real KA50 pilot engage that SAM or better call for assistance ?

 

No sane command would send helicopters against SAMs. That's like sending a snake to kill a mongoose.

[BitMaster]

exactly what I think too... may have to talk to the mission designer from STP Squad to rethink the mission for Fight "Sicknurse" KA-50.

 

Bit

[GunfighterSIX]

No sane command would send helicopters against SAMs. That's like sending a snake to kill a mongoose.

 

Who do you think they used to take out the Iraq radar system in the golf war? Helicopters. They can fly below radar detection and kill the sam's. DCS does not have proper train modeling for that type of masking though. Wouldn't be my first choice of jobs though.

[sobek]

I was talking about an IADS. If it's done right, you have no game in a helicopter.

[Bushmanni]

Apaches seemed to do just fine against vehicle based and radar guided AD systems in OIF as the Apache would avoid or detect and kill those assets before they could see the Apache. Ambushes using MANPADS and/or lots of infantry with heavy machine guns on the other hand were a different story. Before OIF one of the Longbow Apaches missions was SEAD which is reflected by its mission equipment (AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer). 2007 doctrinal manual uses term J-SEAD ie. Apaches aren't meant to kill AD systems alone but together with fixed wing SEAD. Particularly the high flying FW SEAD platform will find the targets and assign choppers to kill the ones that can be killed more easily with a chopper.

 

Ka-50 on the other hand has no equipment meant for hunting down proper AD systems while it does have the NOE flying advantage that makes the helicopter great for some specific SEAD missions. Doing some kind of SEAD with Ka-50 is theoretically possible but in real life only a suicidal maniac would attempt it.