Business model behind this project?

[Nate--IRL--]

Yep, not much in today. Not good.

 

I agree with Sith and all the above re the apparently bizarre business decisions. However I don't see how you can move he goalposts now without appearing dishonest. Other than having a warm fuzzy feeling about helping the genre I just don't see the incentive to contribute. Apparently other F2P projects have had a hard time on Kickstarter.

 

This campaign seems to have been rushed out.

 

Well the way I see it - I've effectively paid €40 for the Fw-190 - which I would have paid anyway.

 

Nate

[Mango]

It's a little late to close the barn door now, hopefully it doesn't cost them the project. It's shocking how few backers there are, and they are the few, enthusiastic, generous kind. If the average contribution was $40 or less, they wouldn't even have $35K by now!!

 

I also don't get why they're not using DCS P-51 footage to promote the project. It's the perfect indicator for how good DCS:WWII could be.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Mango

[NineLine]

Well the way I see it - I've effectively paid €40 for the Fw-190 - which I would have paid anyway.

 

Nate

 

Which, if it comes out before DCS WWII, I will buy it directly from ED anyways lol... I pledge 40 bucks for the better good of WWII sims :)

[hegykc]

I pledge 40 bucks for the better good of WWII sims :)

 

 

And so that all the naysayers and the thrashers get the chance to play the game for free. Not really appealing.

 

Actually, more like penalizing devoting fans, and rewarding the thrashers.

[NineLine]

And so that all the naysayers and the thrashers get the chance to play the game for free. Not really appealing.

 

Actually, more like penalizing devoting fans, and rewarding the thrashers.

 

I might not agree with the approach, but at the end of the day I just want a DCS Level WWII sim... I cant worry about all the others out there. If Luthier feels inclined to reveal the decision for this path then fine, otherwise we just have to trust his plan and hope for the best. I really want a DCS level Spitfire...

[jawzzy]

Well the way I see it - I've effectively paid €40 for the Fw-190 - which I would have paid anyway.

 

Nate

 

The only problem is that you can get the Dora one year earlier directly from DCS and get what you pay for, not risk your money.

 

I just can't understand the logic they used when they set this up.

 

I'd really like Luthier to explain this, or even better. Fix it.

[Nate--IRL--]

The only problem is that you can get the Dora one year earlier directly from DCS and get what you pay for, not risk your money.

 

I just can't understand the logic they used when they set this up.

 

I'd really like Luthier to explain this, or even better. Fix it.

 

I wonder, when you say fix it what do you mean? How can it be changed now that they have raised over $50.000? Are you suggesting a refund for everybody?

 

Nate

[NineLine]

They could fix it by removing the plan to release everything for free to non-backers. What incentive is there for the casual flightsimmer or person on a budget if they get everything free in the end, besides the obvious risk of it not being made at all.

 

I wonder, when you say fix it what do you mean? How can it be changed now that they have raised over $50.000? Are you suggesting a refund for everybody?

 

Nate

[Mango]

I wonder, when you say fix it what do you mean? How can it be changed now that they have raised over $50.000? Are you suggesting a refund for everybody?

Nate

 

As I've said, barn door. I don't give a hoot about others getting this for free after I have payed for it.

 

I give a hoot about all the people who won't contribute because of this. :doh:

Edited September 11, 2013 by Mango

[hegykc]

I might not agree with the approach, but at the end of the day I just want a DCS Level WWII sim... I cant worry about all the others out there. If Luthier feels inclined to reveal the decision for this path then fine, otherwise we just have to trust his plan and hope for the best. I really want a DCS level Spitfire...

 

Oh I'm pledging. He could openly say he might throw the money on drugs and alcohol for all I care :D

The best WWII guys in the business, and the makers of the most popular sim ever made?? That's a no brainer.

 

But I feel sad for all those monies it could have gotten had it not been totally free.

 

But I think I see it. It's a long term strategy. They're counting on all the players that will stick with them once they see (for free) how awesome a study level WWII will be, even the naysayers.

 

Still, they could have invested a 100 grand of their own and made it free. Not throw a hot potato in the hands of the most dedicated fans.

[Nate--IRL--]

They could fix it by removing the plan to release everything for free to non-backers. What incentive is there for the casual flightsimmer or person on a budget if they get everything free in the end, besides the obvious risk of it not being made at all.

 

While I agree with what you say, I don't agree it can be changed now. Hopefully Luthier does indeed decide to make the B-17 the next stretch goal, at say $250,000. I reckon that would be achievable, and would be an incentive to contribute your $40.

 

Nate

[NineLine]

Changing the release of the fighters for free for non backers wouldnt affect the already set goals of the kickstarter. Yes some might be a little unhappy, but those that would be unhappy are the ones hoping to get 150 dollars worth of DCS level aircraft for free, chances are those ones werent planning on pledging ever...

 

And I agree as well... the upper goals need to be adjusted to offer more... he need to make me change mine from 40 to 100 :)

 

While I agree with what you say, I don't agree it can be changed now. Hopefully Luthier does indeed decide to make the B-17 the next stretch goal, at say $250,000. I reckon that would be achievable, and would be an incentive to contribute your $40.

 

Nate

Edited September 11, 2013 by NineLine

[hegykc]

They could fix it by removing the plan to release everything for free to non-backers. What incentive is there for the casual flightsimmer or person on a budget if they get everything free in the end, besides the obvious risk of it not being made at all.

 

It has been stated that it's getting made no matter what. Even if the kickstarter fails, just a little bit later and without some of the bells and wistles. So really, no risk in not pledging at all.

 

As I've said, barn door. I don't give a hoot about paying so others will get to play this as well.

 

I give a hoot about all the people who won't contribute because of this. :doh:

 

Exactelly. They'll get my 40$ no matter what, and i won't regret it. But they won't get the backing of the hundreds and thousands that could easily afford 10-40$ but won't because it'll be free.

[garengarch]

Surely they don't have to refund ANYBODY?

I mean, we don't pay till the end?

 

Cancel it and start again.

Or give us a reason to pledge more than $40.

[hegykc]

No drastic measures needed.

 

Make the spitfire the only free module.

 

And put new awards so that everyone moves up :) 31$ for 1 aircraft, 51$ for two, 76 for three etc.

 

And higher rewards for future content. Like 200$ gets you 3 aircraft for Europe 1944, and 4 aircraft from the future installment.

[garengarch]

But can you change rewards once the campaign has started?

I don't know kickstarter very well.

[MACADEMIC]

 

Cancel it and start again.

 

It's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but perhaps it would have been a good idea to assemble a team of capable volunteers (professionals in their fields, video artists, graphic designers, CGI specialists, marketers, etc.) from the community beforehand to create the Kickstarter campaign? Heck, or even to make a Kickstarter or other fundraiser for the sole purpose of getting funds together to create a Kickstarter that rocks?

 

Don't get me wrong, it seems perfectly okay to throw in the reputation of some big names and make such a personal presentation. There is really no doubt about that big heart beating in Luthier's chest and I commend him for showing it. The very core of the community is already here and supporting his drive. But to inspire a wider audience, people who are presently playing WT or other games only, the people you need to come in numbers to give you broad and deep funding, you just need to show a lot more material, even if it's only CGI for a start.

 

Sometimes the quickest way to a destination is by taking a detour.

 

MAC

[mazex]

Changing the release of the fighters for free for non backers wouldnt affect the already set goals of the kickstarter. Yes some might be a little unhappy, but those that would be unhappy are the ones hoping to get 150 dollars worth of DCS level aircraft for free, chances are those ones werent planning on pledging ever...

 

And I agree as well... the upper goals need to be adjusted to offer more... he need to make me change mine from 40 to 100 :)

 

Exactly. I'm also at 40 right now "for the sake of getting it done". Having spiral bound manuals does not have that much appeal to me even though I sometimes take out my old Falcon 3 and 4 manuals and fondle them for while (i need help ;))

 

I would trigger on a model like this (leave the P-51 and D9 out of it and let people buy them separately and avoid confusion for people that already have them!):

 

- You get the game with the Normandy map and a C-47 or Harvard for free (even though it really should be 25-30 but I accept that they want to ride the War Thunder bandwagon)

 

- At a pledge of 20 you get the Spitfire

- At 40 you get the 109K

- At 60 you get the P-47

- At 80 you get the Fw-190 A5 and beta access

- At 100 you get the B-17 and alpha access

- At 200 you get spiral bound manuals and get mentioned in the credits etc..

- At 1000 you get a ride in the Flying Legends B-17 (get there yourself)

- And finally at 5000 you also get a ride in a WWII fighter in the Flying Legends collection :)

 

A ladder like that would get me thinking seriously of raising the bet ;)

[pingo]

But can you change rewards once the campaign has started?

I don't know kickstarter very well.

 

What I could find was this:

 

Can a project be edited after launching?

 

Yes, you can edit the following content after launching:

— Project description

— Video and image

— Rewards (add new ones or edit those not yet backed)

— Your profile

— Project FAQs

The only things that cannot be edited after launch are:

— The funding goal

— The project deadline

— Your Kickstarter name

— Rewards that have already been selected by a backer

[Mogster]

Exactly. I'm also at 40 right now "for the sake of getting it done". Having spiral bound manuals does not have that much appeal to me even though I sometimes take out my old Falcon 3 and 4 manuals and fondle them for while (i need help ;))

 

I would trigger on a model like this (leave the P-51 and D9 out of it and let people buy them separately and avoid confusion for people that already have them!):

 

- You get the game with the Normandy map and a C-47 or Harvard for free (even though it really should be 25-30 but I accept that they want to ride the War Thunder bandwagon)

 

- At a pledge of 20 you get the Spitfire

- At 40 you get the 109K

- At 60 you get the P-47

- At 80 you get the Fw-190 A5 and beta access

- At 100 you get the B-17 and alpha access

- At 200 you get spiral bound manuals and get mentioned in the credits etc..

- At 1000 you get a ride in the Flying Legends B-17 (get there yourself)

- And finally at 5000 you also get a ride in a WWII fighter in the Flying Legends collection :)

 

A ladder like that would get me thinking seriously of raising the bet ;)

 

Excellent ideas.

[Uther]

Great ideas, but can you even change rewards once a kickstarter has started taking pledges?

[SlipBall]

Great ideas, but can you even change rewards once a kickstarter has started taking pledges?

 

I doubt it, once it was opened it became a contract with those that donated

[Katmandu]

Exactly. I'm also at 40 right now "for the sake of getting it done". Having spiral bound manuals does not have that much appeal to me even though I sometimes take out my old Falcon 3 and 4 manuals and fondle them for while (i need help ;))

 

I would trigger on a model like this (leave the P-51 and D9 out of it and let people buy them separately and avoid confusion for people that already have them!):

 

- You get the game with the Normandy map and a C-47 or Harvard for free (even though it really should be 25-30 but I accept that they want to ride the War Thunder bandwagon)

 

- At a pledge of 20 you get the Spitfire

- At 40 you get the 109K

- At 60 you get the P-47

- At 80 you get the Fw-190 A5 and beta access

- At 100 you get the B-17 and alpha access

- At 200 you get spiral bound manuals and get mentioned in the credits etc..

- At 1000 you get a ride in the Flying Legends B-17 (get there yourself)

- And finally at 5000 you also get a ride in a WWII fighter in the Flying Legends collection :)

 

A ladder like that would get me thinking seriously of raising the bet ;)

 

Excellent idea. Free to play is just wrong at this stage as the rational choice for all but most hardcore simmers would be "Hmm, interesting project, I'll just get my free planes/map, it should last me a long while and then I will see..." Is it rational to invest? No. Its a completely flawed strategy (sorry Ilya, like you said you are not a marketing guy).

 

Since it is impossible to change the rewards now to those who've pledged, I'd still do away with free to play to get free riders of the fence. Those who pledged $40 will still get all the planes, so no breaking of Kickstarter's rules, but if you do not pledge $20 you do not get even one plane. 1-10$ pledgers will get access to beta test, but will need to upgrade to full version once the game comes out.

[mazex]

Excellent idea. Free to play is just wrong at this stage as the rational choice for all but most hardcore simmers would be "Hmm, interesting project, I'll just get my free planes/map, it should last me a long while and then I will see..." Is it rational to invest? No. Its a completely flawed strategy (sorry Ilya, like you said you are not a marketing guy).

 

Since it is impossible to change the rewards now to those who've pledged, I'd still do away with free to play to get free riders of the fence. Those who pledged $40 will still get all the planes, so no breaking of Kickstarter's rules, but if you do not pledge $20 you do not get even one plane. 1-10$ pledgers will get access to beta test, but will need to upgrade to full version once the game comes out.

 

Well - how about a restart then? Send an email to the backers explaining that Ilya is a sim nut and not a Kickstarter marketing guy - and after reconsideration they will stop the current campaign (everyone gets their money back). And then in the same mail a link to the new Kickstarter project. I'm pretty sure most would climb aboard again (me with 100 instead of 40). And then hopefully with a lot more money in the end? Sure - a number of pledgers would get annoyed a bail out but...

[rootango]

restarting the kickstarter would be a bad idea imho and is pretty much out of the question. it would also give fuel to the project critics, let alone instill doubt and undermine the resolve of many people who already supported it so far

 

but there is enough vagueness in the wording of the current kickstarter to give the 3 planes to all current backers (even the 1$, 10$ and 20$ ones) and make it "free" to all kickstart supporters (as luthier recently clarified), but not make all 3 planes for free to "outsiders" upon release time and give them nly one less important plane (the kickstarter wording is not a binding business commitment to prospective future customers in september 2014, the "content description of the project" is aimed solely towards the kickstart supporters only). that would be a workable compromise imho.

 

it would increase commitment from those still willing to pledge more money, and adds revenue at game release time.

Edited September 12, 2013 by rootango