Suggestions to the RRG team to make DCS WW2 a truly stand-out experience for us ;)

[Mysticpuma]

Realising that EDGE will be a huge step forward, I looked at the DCS P-51 'world' when I was creating a previous trailer and have to be honest, the Sky and smoke effects were very underwhelming. The thing is if you drop FPS (gunsmoke effect) it really snaps you out of the moment you are involved in, so FPS and the hit that effects make on them really need some streamlining.

 

Regarding Smoke effects, environmental smoke effects also need to be considered. Smoke on the ground, drifting across the landscape, huge pillars of smoke mimicking large cities burning, similar large fires. This was a huge conflict and needs a really impressive environment to make it seem like a living breathing space you are flying/competing in?

 

Next is the weather/sky/clouds. Again, they just don't seem to have 'depth', volume or a true presence. It's almost like they are in the sky because they should be, not because they are part of your environment. Improving the clouds/high altitude skybox/weather effects would go a long way to making a difference in the sense of being there.

 

Aircraft Damage Modelling. Just more hit decals, better detail rather than a generic huge amount of perforations or a few bullet dots, aircraft breaking apart in more varied ways and at many more places? Wing tips, wing roots, canopies shattering and being shot off, rudder shredded, engine cowling's missing but engine running can be seen, just much more and many varied damage effects.

 

And finally on a similar but sort of unrelated point, it would be great if there was a way for RRg to be able to tweak the visible model (but only when flying in it's WW2 module) so the P-51 has the single antenna behind the cockpit rather than the 1945 twin aerial it has. just asking as surely it can be loaded into the module and a small script run to change it's visual appearance.

 

Anyway, that's my suggestion for now, cheers, MP

 

Fire away guys, I'm sure RRG and Ilya will like to see our thoughts

[Furbs]

Im confused MP, a suggestions post and not one mention of strafing trains, steam or boilers blowing up.

 

Will the real MP please stand up? :)

 

As for the suggestions, all good ideas!

[Mysticpuma]

Well, I needed something to follow up with.....now I have to think of something else ;)

 

So Steam driven vehicles that ride on metal rails, they would be great to attack with their boiling water containers bursting after being hit and gushing water in vapour form into the surrounding air.....that sounds somewhat familiar ;)

 

(Oh, I am still recovering from 5-hours of Surgery...maybe that's the reason ;) )

[adonys]

It's the main point where DCSW engine needs improvement: graphic and weather effects, as I've said in the Rise & Fall thread..

 

I don't think we're getting to see too much of a change regarding this aspect, beside what's already in the to-be-released EDGE engine. RRG will make some 3rd party plugins, not modify the engine itself. They may request some things from the DCS team, but I guess not too many..

 

I hope you're ok, MP mate, that 5h surgery sounds like a serious one. get well :)

Edited October 5, 2013 by adonys

[Charly_Owl]

Realising that EDGE will be a huge step forward, I looked at the DCS P-51 'world' when I was creating a previous trailer and have to be honest, the Sky and smoke effects were very underwhelming. The thing is if you drop FPS (gunsmoke effect) it really snaps you out of the moment you are involved in, so FPS and the hit that effects make on them really need some streamlining.

 

Regarding Smoke effects, environmental smoke effects also need to be considered. Smoke on the ground, drifting across the landscape, huge pillars of smoke mimicking large cities burning, similar large fires. This was a huge conflict and needs a really impressive environment to make it seem like a living breathing space you are flying/competing in?

 

Next is the weather/sky/clouds. Again, they just don't seem to have 'depth', volume or a true presence. It's almost like they are in the sky because they should be, not because they are part of your environment. Improving the clouds/high altitude skybox/weather effects would go a long way to making a difference in the sense of being there.

 

Aircraft Damage Modelling. Just more hit decals, better detail rather than a generic huge amount of perforations or a few bullet dots, aircraft breaking apart in more varied ways and at many more places? Wing tips, wing roots, canopies shattering and being shot off, rudder shredded, engine cowling's missing but engine running can be seen, just much more and many varied damage effects.

 

And finally on a similar but sort of unrelated point, it would be great if there was a way for RRg to be able to tweak the visible model (but only when flying in it's WW2 module) so the P-51 has the single antenna behind the cockpit rather than the 1945 twin aerial it has. just asking as surely it can be loaded into the module and a small script run to change it's visual appearance.

 

Anyway, that's my suggestion for now, cheers, MP

 

Fire away guys, I'm sure RRG and Ilya will like to see our thoughts

 

I agree on most of your points, MP.

 

Some other points I'd like to add:

 

1) Stable FPS and performance will be paramount of we're to bring more people into flight simulators. I sometimes experience random stutters and fps drops when the guns are firing on the P-51 (and I have a pretty good rig with above average video card and processor). BoS, for instance, seems like a very performance-friendly simulator based on the early videos of the producers. Of course, we might be proven wrong once the game releases, but I think that trying to optimize performance is something that must not be neglected, even if the game release date has to be pushed back a few weeks (or months). I'm sure Ilya is perfectly aware of that, but I just felt like mentioning it. The point is: no stutters + smooth FPS = amazing dogfighting!

 

2) Wind noise on the cockpit and shaking. When I'm flying in CloD at very high speeds or doing violent manoeuvers, I can feel the aircraft creaking and the whole cockpit vibrate with the wind. I hope similar effects will be reproduced. IMHO, I think the "feeling of flight" is very important. War Thunder and Rise of Flight, despite some of their flaws, have found greats effects to make you feel like you're actually there (wind effects, GREAT sound effects when you're getting shot at and bullets ricochet on your fuselage, LOUD flak explosions and smoke effects. These kind of effects contribute massively to the immersion factor and I think that if Oculus Rift is supported (which would be awesome, but I'll be coming back on this i my next point), it could be a game-changer. This way, DCS WWII would truly enter, along with BoS, in the next generation of high-fidelity WW" flight simulators.

 

3) Oculus Rift support! We know most of the "big players" in the sim industry will be providing support. VR support could be bringing a whole new level to the immersion factor.

 

4) Weather Conditions (especially BAD weather) definitely need to be part of the game. It was one of my few gripes with Cliffs of Dover and I think that the whole Normandy campaign was very much influenced by weather. Just like the Ardennes battle.

 

5) Solid replay system. I LOVED the replay system in Cliffs of Dover, and video-making will be much easier to do with a system that allows a slow-down a la CloD where you could have 1/8 or 1/16 of the original game speed. The shots you can get with slow-mo propeller turning and being lit by the sun is something that will drive video makers nuts! (in a good way) At the moment,

 

6) Volumetric clouds are just a joy to fly in. They were often used as a tactic to escape from pursuers. They add a lot to the immersion and I sincerely hope they will be improved from what we currently have in DCS World.

 

7) Solid multiplayer. I know, I've been saying it quite a lot lately, but I can't stress it enough that the longevity of the franchise will depend on online multiplayer. Multiplayer is what taught me how to fly. You meet new people, you learn from them ten times faster than you would by just reading the manual and it keeps you coming back for more. The social dimension of Flight Sims is one of the things that makes it so addicting for me: you meet incredible people, and once in a while, they shoot you down and you both laugh over it on Teamspeak. :music_whistling:

Edited October 6, 2013 by Charly_Owl

[tronchaser]

Thinking along the lines of terrain and such, I wonder if it would be possible to say import some of the world terrain mesh from the addon FSX world. I believe it was derived from satellite data with a resolution of 1 meter or less.

[tronchaser]

Figure might help with creating terrain for long range bomber missions.

[VincentLaw]

5) Solid replay system. I LOVED the replay system in Cliffs of Dover, and video-making will be much easier to do with a system that allows a slow-down a la CloD where you could have 1/8 or 1/16 of the original game speed. The shots you can get with slow-mo propeller turning and being lit by the sun is something that will drive video makers nuts! (in a good way) At the moment,

Slow and fast motion are possible in DCS. It is currently possible to slow down to 1/50 speed. Alt-Z slows down the simulation, Ctrl-Z speeds up the simulation, and Shift-Z returns to normal speed. This works both in replays and during flight.

 

One thing that would be nice is a rewind or "skip backwards" ability. I understand that it could be a difficult problem to simulate the game in reverse, but "I-frames" could be added at regular intervals to make jumping both forward and backwards possible. This would significantly increase the replay size, so it should should be off by default.

Edited October 6, 2013 by VincentLaw

[SimFreak]

I'll throw two things in the hat.

 

AI and Visual Damage model.

 

AI behaves like ...well AI. They have no fear, do not care about damage and have all seeing eye. And then there is a visualization of a damage model that is rather primitive. Same old - hit section of a body - that section changes to "different" skin that shows few extra drawn on holes.

[Mogster]

It's obvious that the visual damage modeling in DCS is quite primative, if ED are serious about WW2 they have to improve it. I think the current effects are designed to display large scale damage caused by modern A-A or G-A missile hits rather than individual bullet or cannon shell hits.

 

I agree about drifting volumetric smoke, it'd add a lot to making the environment feel more alive. The current regular cone shaped smoke effects are quite jarring. Weather effects are very limited, no wet runways, rain on windshields. If ED are serious about creating a one stop flight sim product they have to make this stuff a priority.

[SlipBall]

While all great ideas, this is what doomed Clod, the average PC just won't handle it well.

[bongodriver]

While all great ideas, this is what doomed Clod, the average PC just won't handle it well.

 

you got there before me, I totally agree CoD probably shot itself in the foot putting on too much make up, though I only experienced bad framerates on initial release, the subsequent patches fixed fps issues for me and largely those patches simply took out some eye candy.

[Furbs]

Where do these changes and effects have to come from?

Can RRG add this in to the engine themselves for DCS44 or does this have to come from EDGE?

 

Sorry, im not up to speed on how the whole DCS world works.

[bongodriver]

Good question Furbs, while the other 3rd party developers seem to be simply creating content for world ,there seems to be something different with DCS WWII, in fact I haven't figured out if DCS WWII is actually a standalone product.

[SlipBall]

My guess would be DCS...but RRG can give us superior game play features to make it memorable, and even become a classic

Edited October 6, 2013 by GT 5.0

[Sharpe]

Two things actually:

 

1: I'm hoping that with the Normandy terrain now en route we will get some opposition of the period (190 A/F 109G) As far the Kurfurst and the Dora is concerned I hope these can be limited to pvp scenarios.

 

2:That olden goldie of Il2 days. Friday updates. Would it be too much to request a comeback of that feature? I do realize you have the kickstarter backers to think of as well, but I figure you can keep interest going by showing whats coming to those that were on the fence about this. The way do it; the kickstarter backers simply get a lot more to look at.

[Jeesus]

Well most of it covered before, but just to reinforce, for me:

 

- The most realistic damage model you can put together (collision- and sam strike-generated bulletholes are not cool :) )

 

- Oculus Rift support (the most important gaming interface revolution of the decade IMO)

 

- Performance, oh bloody performance (But I guess if the engine is going to be optimized well for multicore and multigpu environment that's gonna be no issue, most of us already have nuclear powerplants at home to weaken the current flaws of the old engine)

 

- Extending and supporting the SDK (this is what made FSX the most succesful Civil Flight Simulation Platform and it's 3rd party development, with a bit of poetic exaggeration, a multi million dollar industry)

 

And lastly (troll on :D) it is very important that when an update comes out it makes the game better, not worse!!! (ps. please ED give back my forests buildings and textures in multiplayer :cry: )

 

Cheers

[Zag]

Hi,

 

What I'm hoping for is a thorough guide for basic BFM and advanced dogfighting techniques (remember the old lockon training tracks).

 

I'm saying this because I'm new to the WW2 era, i have tried IL-2 3 or 4 years ago and never really got into it ( I know shame on me !:P). Now I have the DCS P-51 and she's a pleasure to fly, i have had some practice with ground targets and i can get good results with guns, bombs are a different story though.

 

The biggest challenge yet is fighting against another P-51, as opposed to modern fighters, there is no firing solution so you have to learn to properly lead the enemy. Energy is also very difficult to maintain during the fight so i still have a long road ahead of me.

 

I have been reading some guides written by the IL-2 community ( I figure the principles involved are the same) but i think we should have proper guides or demonstrations built into the sim for other people like me who are transitioning from jets to props.

[BIGNEWY]

I would like to see what EDGE can actually do :) and I am sure we will soon

 

Collidable trees which obscure view and clouds that obscure view ( even for AI ) is a big thing.

 

And hopefully the south of England as I do not get where allied fighters will start from if we only have Normandy mapped

[Dutchy93]

Hi,

 

What I'm hoping for is a thorough guide for basic BFM and advanced dogfighting techniques (remember the old lockon training tracks).

 

I'm saying this because I'm new to the WW2 era, i have tried IL-2 3 or 4 years ago and never really got into it ( I know shame on me !:P). Now I have the DCS P-51 and she's a pleasure to fly, i have had some practice with ground targets and i can get good results with guns, bombs are a different story though.

 

The biggest challenge yet is fighting against another P-51, as opposed to modern fighters, there is no firing solution so you have to learn to properly lead the enemy. Energy is also very difficult to maintain during the fight so i still have a long road ahead of me.

 

I have been reading some guides written by the IL-2 community ( I figure the principles involved are the same) but i think we should have proper guides or demonstrations built into the sim for other people like me who are transitioning from jets to props.

 

If you can gauge the distance between you and your target with your gunsight, you can sort of determine how much lead you should pull.

I flew a lot in IL-2 1946 and if that is remotely similar to DCSP51 this should work. Back then it was like: If the enemy plane's wingtips touch the outer ring in your gunsight, the enemy is ~100 meters away.

I've never flown DCS P51 but this is my previous experience in other good sims.

[sobek]

The P-51 in DCS has a gyro gunsight that, when correctly adjusted, shows you a gun solution.

[Shadylurker]

Well most of it covered before, but just to reinforce, for me:

 

- The most realistic damage model you can put together (collision- and sam strike-generated bulletholes are not cool :) )

 

 

 

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but I think the DM is engine limited to the way it looks now. I say looks because it still behaves properly but doesn't look as great as it could.

[Charly_Owl]

To me it is pointless to be talking, complaining and or asking for improvements to effects & performance that are governed by the graphics engine.

 

We all know the DCS World engine is old, hence why ED have spent the last 3 years or so making a new one. WWII: 1944 is to be run in this new engine (EDGE), none of us really know how this new engine will work in regards to performance & eye candy.

 

Its really a question of 'wait and see' IMO.

 

Bottom line we all want the same... lots of eye candy, incredible sim fidelity, good performance & stability. Kind of reminds me of the old... good, fast, cheap problem...normally you cant have it all.

 

While I totally agree with you (I really do), I think War Thunder and (late-patched) CloD proved that you could have a lot of eye candy and cool effects while having a stable framerate. And I don't think the FM relies that heavily on your video card ;)

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

If you can gauge the distance between you and your target with your gunsight, you can sort of determine how much lead you should pull.

I flew a lot in IL-2 1946 and if that is remotely similar to DCSP51 this should work. Back then it was like: If the enemy plane's wingtips touch the outer ring in your gunsight, the enemy is ~100 meters away.

I've never flown DCS P51 but this is my previous experience in other good sims.

 

i think how much lead you have to pull is not affected by the distance to the target.

only speed and the angle is important.

[Furbs]

Sorry David, distance is very important for leading shots, in fact all 3 are just as important, mess up one of the 3 and you will miss, unless very close, less than 50yrds.

I always found practice and feel make for good lead shooting, its very rare i had time to line up a target in the sights and calculate anything, unless it was a nice clean bounce and if that happened i just got very close before firing.

 

Flying manly german aircraft i don't do much tracking lead shooting, its more about bouncing and placing my aircraft where the target will be flying into my sights and then its all in the timing.