DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion

[Foul Ole Ron]

There's a large difference between napkin design planes and and a plane which was fully operational months before the war ended.

[Crumpp]

There's a large difference between napkin design planes and and a plane which was fully operational months before the war ended.

 

It terms of combat service in World War II, there is no difference.

 

The Bearcat did not enter service before VE Day and it never saw combat in World War II. They all are a "never was" for World War II.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Granted it never saw actual combat. VE Day wasn't the end of WW2 though. The first Bearcat squadron was operational by late May and WW2 wasn't over for the US until mid August.

[TAGERT]

Same is true of the P80, it actually flew missions in ETO.. and there was a boat load of them ready to be offloaded in PTO, but the ABomb cut that short.

[Tumbleweed]

OH BOY OH BOY I can't wait for the P-47.. Another of my fave aicraft!

What a machine!

 

Excuse the pool of drool on the floor :)

[fastfreddie]

Granted it never saw actual combat. VE Day wasn't the end of WW2 though. The first Bearcat squadron was operational by late May and WW2 wasn't over for the US until mid August.

 

Yeah I hope to see it on combat servers ... it probably won't be much worse than the Spit XIV as far as unbalancing the servers anyway. The Bearcat was operational and was in no way a paper napkin plane so it deserves a slot.

[saburo_cz]

People in other topics call for historical accuracy (fuel, weapon etc.) and now want plane which never was used in combat during WWII, funny :)

 

I hope that map makers will never use these birds (F8F and Buchon too) for map with WWII scenario...

 

planes like Fw 190A8/9 (of F-8/9), Bf 109G-6 (or 14) can be more suitable for maps when P-47 and Spit IX are on the actuall list

[HeadHunter52]

For WWII scenarios, I wouldn't include the F8F. Not unless "hypothetical" rules are in place, and that would mean all kinds of other planes involved.

 

No. I'd prefer any server I flew on to either keep it away. Instead of putting effort into something like that, I'd rather see it applied to tuning existing aircraft of historical note.

 

If it wasn't fighting in a meaningful way, it has no place.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Yeah I'm not saying it should be there - just I won't lose my mind if a MP server does include the Bearcat as the plane was operational before the war was over. For a pure historical mission server it shouldn't be there really but no harm otherwise as it's not a totally implausible inclusion.

[fastfreddie]

For a pure historical mission server it shouldn't be there really but no harm otherwise as it's not a totally implausible inclusion.

 

Well we don't have to worry about fighting on any historical mission servers because they are pretty much air quake missions now with cold war era ground units if they have any at all. I'm not saying that their should be mission slots for Bearcats, P-40s, etc on every mission but hopefully combat servers will have slots for these aircraft from time to time. I look forward to seeing how the Bearcat preforms in combat even if that means I'm flying the K-4/D-9 since it was introduced so late in the war.

[TAGERT]

Well we don't have to worry about fighting on any historical mission servers because they are pretty much air quake missions now

Sad but true..

 

There are very few, if any, flight sims out there, other than the 10+ yo IL2 that has the planes and maps needed to do a historical WWII anything.. Hopefully DCS will fill those needs over the next few years, what with the 3rd party dev path, things could and should happen quicker..

 

But, besides that, the hard core flight combat market has become and even smaller nitch market, what with the likes of WarThunder mindsets, sadly, air quake has become the norm and historic the exception.

[Bullfrog_]

Granted it never saw actual combat. VE Day wasn't the end of WW2 though. The first Bearcat squadron was operational by late May and WW2 wasn't over for the US until mid August.

 

Apparently it's the F8F-2 which is IIRC post WW2.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Apparently it's the F8F-2 which is IIRC post WW2.

 

So it is.. yes you're right that version was post WW2. Think it was 1948. Will have 4x20mm cannon as well instead of the 4x.50 cal. Will still be a fun plane to fly around if nothing else.

[AG-51_Razor]

I have just been through all 42 pages of this thread and I must say, there is an awful lot of great info within. :thumbup: I did see a post from someone that indicated the Jug was supposed to be out sometime in March of 2015. Has anyone see a developer's blog, or website showing any pictures of a WIP??

[Friedrich-4B]

I have just been through all 42 pages of this thread and I must say, there is an awful lot of great info within. :thumbup: I did see a post from someone that indicated the Jug was supposed to be out sometime in March of 2015. Has anyone see a developer's blog, or website showing any pictures of a WIP??

 

No sign of the Jug yet; here are some more details to keep the appetite whetted:

 

 

From Detail & Scale Vol 54:

 

[TAGERT]

why did they show the cockpit frame for the P-38 and not the others?

[Friedrich-4B]

why did they show the cockpit frame for the P-38 and not the others?

 

Good question; it could be that the P-38 represented is a pre-P-38J-10-LO model - the earlier models had an internal armoured screen, with an external, curved plexiglass windscreen. Apparently this configuration created distortion, which is possibly replicated in the gunsight view.

[Echo38]

Good question; it could be that the P-38 represented is a pre-P-38J-10-LO model

 

[nod] The silhouette of the P-38 shows the pre-J radiators, so P-38H at the latest. Kinda strange, given that the other three birds are fairly late models; I'd expected the P-38J to be showing up alongside those, if not the L. P-38J was the "standard" variant in 1943, IIRC.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Echo38

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

So it is.. yes you're right that version was post WW2. Think it was 1948. Will have 4x20mm cannon as well instead of the 4x.50 cal. Will still be a fun plane to fly around if nothing else.

 

Think post ww2 era combat zones....KKOOOORRRREEAAAA!

[Foul Ole Ron]

Think post ww2 era combat zones....KKOOOORRRREEAAAA!

 

Unfortunately the Bearcat didn't see action there either. It was out of front line service by the time that war started and the Navy preferred the Corsair for prop plane front line support. Vietnam with the French during the first Indochina war seems to have been it's first and only significant combat operation.

[nick10]

How about an update. For the kids.

[HeadHunter52]

Yup. Can't wait to try out that radial powered steel bucket against the Jerrys. Can we get a hint as to the timeframe???

 

Pleeeeeeeeeeease???

[Desode]

I'll add to this request , I don't ever post on forums but I swing by here a few times a week looking for any new info on the JUG.

 

 

Any new info Please ?

 

 

Desode

[Barrett_g]

I follow a thread on rcgroups about Eflite's new RC P-47 that's coming out in a month or so...

 

There was an interesting discussion about how fast a radio controlled warbird should fly to be considered "scale."

 

One group wants a plane that does nice ovals in the sky, with an occasional loop and roll.... While the other group wants bigger electric motors and bigger batteries for near-unlimited vertical climbs and blazing speed.

 

Kind of reminds me of the octane discussions here.... It made me realize that sometimes you forget that a warbird at an airshow is a relic, and flown much "safer" than it used to fly. I wish I could have seen them in their prime!

 

Anyways... There were two posts that I really liked... So I want to share them here.... Mind you.... The facts may be slightly off... May be biased... Etc... But I like the enthusiasm and they're written well.

 

---- post 1 ----

 

I typically fly my fighters scale, too.

 

But I'm talking about how they were flown in combat on extremely high-octane fuel, hopped-up & tweaked by their crew-chiefs. NOT how they're usually flown at airshows today - as frail antiques with hard-to-get, extremely expensive replacement parts for their engines. I prefer to fly them like they were flown by combat pilots, who pushed them far-beyond "factory spec" in order to survive.

 

Take the Jug, for example. None of the Jugs that are still flying today even have an intact WEP system. Many of them don't even have a functioning turbocharger anymore. In combat, it was not uncommon for crew-chiefs of late-model Jugs with the paddle-blade prop to crank the turbos up to a staggering 60 pounds of boost at WEP. That's 3,800 HP. At 3,800 HP, a Jug could hit 500 MPH TAS in level flight without even breathing hard. Using the compressibility flaps to pull out of a near-transonic dive, it could zoom-climb nearly straight up for ~20,000 feet!

 

The last time I saw a Jug make a real balls-to-the-wall pass at full WEP with the turbo screaming like a banshee was back in the 1980s. It came in from a high-speed dive & pulled out at nearly 550 MPH down-on-the-deck. It streaked by, with the insane screech of a turbocharger the size of a coffee-table spooled-up to 20,000+ RPM following hundreds of feet behind. The turbo sounded just like a jet engine, and was nearly as loud! The prop literally tore the air apart with a metallic ripping sound as it went supersonic at the tips, with the unmuffled R-2800 @ war-emergency-power bellowing so loudly that it shook me right to the core. The shock-waves from the prop-blades combined with the R-2800's open exhaust literally pounded my chest - similar to how a Top Fuel dragster pounds your chest during a run (albeit not quite to that extent).

 

That's how I like to fly my fighters.

 

Joel

 

---- post 2 ----

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I remember how these birds used to be flown at airshows 3-4 decades ago, before the parts became so scarce that nobody dares to fly them balls-to-the-wall anymore. So it makes makes me sad when I hear people talking about "flying scale" like WWII fighters are typically flown at airshows today. That is NOT scale flying for the world's best air-superiority fighters! They were the Ferraris of the sky! Putting along at 300 MPH & maybe gingerly performing a slow roll or conservative loop is about as "scale" for a WWII fighter as driving 50 MPH in rush-hour is "scale" for an F1 car.

 

And having a dad who flew 'em in combat, and having the honor of meeting his squadron-mates at a Devilhawks reunion back when they were still young enough to remember the details of their missions gave me a completely different level of respect for what those guys went through, and also for the Jug.

 

Sure, the Jug has always been my favorite. After all, my dad flew 'em in combat. But when I heard every single pilot at the reunion say that the Jug is the reason they made it home, I had much more reason to be in awe of the plane & those who designed it. My dad's FG flew exclusively CAS in Brenner Pass, which was known as flak alley because the stuff came up at you, down at you, and also in at you from the sides. They pulled so many Gs coming out of their power-dives with the compressibility flaps that they routinely blacked-out for a few seconds. See the pic below for an example of the terrain over which they flew every day. The life-expectancy of pilots who weren't flying Jugs was measured in weeks. To a man, they all believed that they would not have made it home if they would've been flying any other fighter.

 

Some of 'em also flew air-to-air combat with other fighter-groups before they were assigned to the 350th FG. Most of those guys had also flown P-51s and/or P-38s, and a few had even flown Spitfires. Again - to a man, every one of them said that if they had to do it again, they'd rather fly the Jug in air-to-air combat than any other fighter.

 

And they weren't just being sentimental, either. They all said the same thing: Without question, they'd take the Jug's superior firepower, unmatched ruggedness, and superior speed over the tighter turn radius of the P-51, Spitfire, and other more nimble fighters because they could compensate for the Jug's poorer turn-fight performance with tactics. They told me that no amount of tactics could compensate for a lack of ruggedness or firepower. They learned energy-management techniques which allowed them to gain an advantage over anything the Luftwaffe could throw at them. With the paddle-blade prop, they could easily out-climb the Bf 109s & FW 190s. They could also out-turn the German fighters above 18,000 feet. And they knew that they could always break off the fight by hitting WEP & dropping the nose. Absolutely nothing in the war could catch a Jug in a power-dive. Not even an Me 262. And that's without cranking-up the boost. When the crew-chiefs cranked up the boost, the plane became all but invincible in the hands of a skilled pilot. They said the same thing that my dad had told me when was a little kid - hitting hitting the water-injection & pushing the throttle past the stop to full war-emergency-power shoved them into the seat so hard that they felt like they'd been kicked in the ass by a freight-train.

 

Joel

[jvanhoog]

Awesome post Barrett_g!