X-52 newbie questions

[Malenace]

Hi,

I'm a newbie in DCS.

I have a X-52 saitek joystick.

I've read many topics about this flightstick and DCS, but have some questions about it.

1° Is it better to program the stick in the Saitek software (pr0 files) or in DCS controls(lua files)? and why ? Has one file the priority over the other while in DCS?

2° Can i use the differents Mode selection in the Saitek software and use them in DCS?

3° How can I (and is it possible) set each mode in Saitek software to be a modifier key in DCS controls?

4° If i understand well, 3 modes are available on the flightstick and each of these mode can use the pinkie button as a modifier, allowing six different configurations.

is it possible or unrecognized in DCS.

5° Is is necessary to edit specific profiles for each plane ? i.e A-10 or F15, as they have different armaments and avionics?

 

Thank you for your help.

Best regards

PS sorry for my bad english, I'm french an don't practice a lot...

[PFunk1606688187]

As far as I understand it the mode and pinkie-toggle switching done by the X52 software is entirely internal and not something that can be extended to DCS beyond simply having a keyboard command mapped to your various modes and toggled switches.

 

I don't know whether its considered better, but I use DCS commands directly, meaning I map joystick buttons straight into DCS rather than keyboard commands that are themselves mapped to the joystick via the saitek software.

 

DCS has its own toggle option built in so you can make any joystick button a toggle like the pinkie switch is. I actually disable the mode switching in the saitek software and therefore turn the clutch button and the pinkie switch and the three-way mode selecter on the top of the stick into joystick buttons I can use in DCS.

 

I also use a DCS modifier to double up the commands that all the HAT switches on the stick and throttle as well as the A, B, and C buttons and that doesn't leave me really wanting for many more buttons.

 

There is some art to setting up your HOTAS and a lot is preference to it. Its hard at first to know how to map out controls when you aren't necessarily familiar with the systems and controls and how they're meant to work. You will certainly need separate profiles for every aircraft if you go the saitek route. In general you won't need to edit much if you do your controls direct via DCS. The only thing I have set up in my DCS A-10 X52 profile is adding bands to my mouse control on the throttle to turn it into the speed brake switch.

[Roadrunner]

my personal advise would be to play the game and let your profile evolve.

 

while i'm flying i notice, that i have to hit the keyboard often for a special command, so i map it to the hotas within DCS, thinking about on what button it is put best.

 

over time you have all you need then.

 

i.e.

landing gear, as it is nice to have on the HOTAS, you will only need the button 2 times in a normal mission, and usualy you are not in a critical situation, so you can hit the keyboard easily.

 

lock a missile to a target however should be on the HOTAS, as you usualy need it when there are many controllinputs needed in a short time, so thats a no-go for the keyboard.

 

that would be my experiance and way to evolve a profile.

 

regards,

RR

[Malenace]

Thank you for your responses :)

 

However, I'm still confused about the need to use (or not) the Saitek programming software.

 

I just tried to create in DCS, a modifier with the pinkie button on the stick, but either this pinkie button, nor the mode selector button seems to be recognized by DCS.

I went to Options>controls<add modifier, selected the Saitek X-52 and clicked the drop down menu. But when I try to use one of the buttons above, nothing happens.

 

@P*Funk

You said "DCS has its own toggle option built in so you can make any joystick button a toggle like the pinkie switch is"

How do you do that ?

 

and "I actually disable the mode switching in the saitek software"

 

please tell me how to do that.

 

Is there a tutorial somewhere about the programming in DCS ?

 

I know that my questions may look stupid, but I'd rely like to be able to make my own programming.

 

For example I'd like to be able to switch to the left, right or HUD MFD using a POV, and have a simple button to press to cycle and select any of the different buttons on these MFD.

[Blooze]

I use the X52 pro and rely totally on the profile I created using the Saitek software. I completely deleted the X52 category from the DCS Options menu to eliminate any potential mapping conflicts between the two. I have all 3 modes programmed in my profile as well as some pinky switch alternatives for each mode. It takes time to create a profile but IMO it's well worth the effort. The only time I reach for my keyboard is to activate radio commands. Although I only fly the A-10C, I am sure that I would create a new profile for each new module if I chose to get them. It is quite easy to switch profiles before each flight.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Blooze

[Cibit]

Can I suggest you use JackBauer profile for A10C. Then once you have a good place to start you can develop your own slant on it:)

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=58484

 

Lots of other profiles in userfiles

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?arrFilter_pf%5Bfiletype%5D=70&arrFilter_pf%5Bgameversion%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Bfilelang%5D=14&arrFilter_pf%5Baircraft%5D=60&arrFilter_CREATED_USER_NAME=&set_filter=Filter&set_filter=Y

[Malenace]

@Blooze

Could you share your profile ?

 

@Cibit

Well, I have downloaded the JackBauer profile.

Although I can edit the .lua file, the .pr0 seems to be empty, or I don't understand exactly how it works...

[javelina1]

I've been using the JackBauer profile with the A-10C for quite a bit now. It works well.

 

Yes, I generally have a profile for each type of A/C. I have one for the P-51D too. Including non DCS sims, such as BMS Falcon & A2A BOB II, FSX, etc.

 

My Bauer .lua file is 172KB in size, and the .pr0 is 14KB

[Blooze]

@Blooze

Could you share your profile ?

 

@Cibit

Well, I have downloaded the JackBauer profile.

Although I can edit the .lua file, the .pr0 seems to be empty, or I don't understand exactly how it works...

If you look in MY DOCUMENTS you should see a folder called Saitek SD6 Profiles. This is where you should place the downloaded profile. Assuming you have the Saitek Profile editor installed, right click on the small Saitek Icon in your taskbar (photo attached) and you should see the profile listed. You can then activate the profile for use. I would recommend creating your own profile rather than taking the time to learn someone's profile. Mine would be useless to you without a diagram which I don't have.

[VTJS17_Fire]

@Malenace: It's in german, but maybe this helps you a little bit, though. :)

 

 

 

regards,

Fire

[Malenace]

@Blooze

Yes , I know how to load a profile in SSD, but the JackBauer seems to be empty when I open it, I'll send you an image as soon as I return to windows (see my signature)

 

Having a look at your profile could help me a lot designing a personal one…

 

@Javelina

Which functions do you use in DCS and in SSD Saitek programming tool ?

 

 

To everyone

Thank you for your help.

I'm really surprised to see that this forum is very responsive, even to a newbie :-)

I love to understand how things work, and I'd like to program a nice profile, useful for me and also for other people (if they like it).

So, the difficulty to understand how DCS world manages "external" devices is important, as I still don't understand if a profile should be entirely,partially or not at all written in SSD (Saitek programming tool ) or inside DCS world.

No one of you has given me the "ultimate" answer until now…

 

Some of you use only the Saitek programming tool, some others use mainly the DCS control.

 

For example, how would you manage the demand that I exposed in my second message ?

 

I'd like to be able to switch to the left, right or HUD MFD using a POV, and have a simple button to press to cycle and select any of the different buttons on these MFD.

 

Directly in DCS or in SSD ?

[Blooze]

@Blooze

Yes , I know how to load a profile in SSD, but the JackBauer seems to be empty when I open it, I'll send you an image as soon as I return to windows (see my signature)

 

Having a look at your profile could help me a lot designing a personal one…

 

@Javelina

Which functions do you use in DCS and in SSD Saitek programming tool ?

 

 

To everyone

Thank you for your help.

I'm really surprised to see that this forum is very responsive, even to a newbie :-)

I love to understand how things work, and I'd like to program a nice profile, useful for me and also for other people (if they like it).

So, the difficulty to understand how DCS world manages "external" devices is important, as I still don't understand if a profile should be entirely,partially or not at all written in SSD (Saitek programming tool ) or inside DCS world.

No one of you has given me the "ultimate" answer until now…

 

Some of you use only the Saitek programming tool, some others use mainly the DCS control.

 

For example, how would you manage the demand that I exposed in my second message ?

 

 

 

Directly in DCS or in SSD ?

If you have an X52 Pro then the profile you downloaded won't work. You can assign the numbers on your keyboard number pad to operate some of the OBSs in the DCS Options/Control menu then assign them to a hatswitch using the Saitek profile editor. As an example, I access the OSBs for TAD, DSMS, TGP,MAVS etc with the hat switch on the throttle.

[gillers]

@Blooze

Yes , I know how to load a profile in SSD, but the JackBauer seems to be empty when I open it, I'll send you an image as soon as I return to windows (see my signature)

 

That JB SST profile only contains axis commands and few others. You have the load the accompanying Jack Bauer keyfile LUA and load that in DCS options menu. That has most of the commands that the X52 uses. You can of course change the keys in game but you shouldn't have to change the SST profile. Hope that makes sense. :smartass:

[Malenace]

Thank you S161_Fire !

Even if I don't understand german, this tutorial helped me. But there is a lot of work for me…

[Malenace]

@Gillers

Ok it make sense for me, but why cant'i find someone who programmed ALL keys in DCS OR in SST ?

are they some key/functions not handled by one of these software.

?

Most of you are using both, but no one can explain me why he (or her) can program all keys in one of these softwares and what are the benefit or problems, about programming all keys in DCS or SST

…and that's why Im still confused :-)

 

Further, my objective is to use a single (if possible) software to program every useful keyboard command for the X-52 (not Pro) , even if I have to edit a separate profile for different planes, but using a basic "general"profile which can be adjusted for the different planes.

The SST software seems "à priori" be the best way, since it allows the creation of "categories", using the pinkie switch:-( and the three modes, and also, I still don't understand how to create a new modifier in DCS to recognize the three modes and / or the pinkie switch :-(

[Blech]

Hi,

 

In the options / controls menu are over 800 possible "actions" for the a-10, 300 already with keyboard-combinations

 

If you have all the "HOTAS" on the X52 - most of the programming is done

What else you need on the stick, you'll find out by practise the manual

Center View

Air brakes

Flaps

....

 

 

Have a look in the manual

pages 86-92 for the HOTAS

 

For example, how would you manage the demand that I exposed in my second message ?

page 92 -> 8. Coolie Hat. Functions according to SOI include:

HUD as SOI

Swap MFCD Content

DSMS Quick Look

Cycle Left MFCD

Set Left MFCD as SOI

Cycle Right MFCD

Set Right MFCD

 

 

The problem is to work out a useful stick-configuration

often used -> mode 1

seldom used and no quick reaction in combat -> mode 3

 

I have never tried it directly in DCS - I use profiles

Edited January 4, 2014 by Blech

[Blooze]

@Gillers

Ok it make sense for me, but why cant'i find someone who programmed ALL keys in DCS OR in SST ?

are they some key/functions not handled by one of these software.

?

Most of you are using both, but no one can explain me why he (or her) can program all keys in one of these softwares and what are the benefit or problems, about programming all keys in DCS or SST

…and that's why Im still confused :-)

 

Further, my objective is to use a single (if possible) software to program every useful keyboard command for the X-52 (not Pro) , even if I have to edit a separate profile for different planes, but using a basic "general"profile which can be adjusted for the different planes.

The SST software seems "à priori" be the best way, since it allows the creation of "categories", using the pinkie switch:-( and the three modes, and also, I still don't understand how to create a new modifier in DCS to recognize the three modes and / or the pinkie switch :-(

If you are relying on the Saitek profile EVERYTHING can be set up there, including the pinky switch. There is no need to concern yourself with modifiers or anything else in DCS. All you do is activate your profile and it will be in control of everything. As I have stated before, I have completely deleted the entire X52 category from the DCS Options except the axis commands because, not only do I not need it, leaving it there has the potential to cause mapping conflicts with my Saitek profile.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Blooze

[Malenace]

@Bletch

Very interesting, but the links to the manual in this forum is dead. Could you post a working link ?

Thanks

 

@Blooze

I think we have the same approach to the programming way of the Saitek

Even if it's a lot of work for you, I'll really appreciate a look at your profile with some comments about the main features (how to set the pinkie switch to work, how you configured your modes -i.e A_A/A_G/NAV etc…-, and some explanations)

Please remember that I am a newbie in this domain, even if I am experienced in computers and programming in general. I don't have trouble about finding a file, or finding the right place for it,but I don't understand well the way SST is working ( i.e If i type two keys in a cell, will they be used one after the other or together with the first key acting as a modifier?…and so on)

 

This could be very useful for me if you had a little time to help me :-)

Edited January 4, 2014 by Malenace

[Blooze]

@Bletch

Very interesting, but the links to the manual in this forum is dead. Could you post a working link ?

Thanks

 

@Blooze

I think we have the same approach to the programming way of the Saitek

Even if it's a lot of work for you, I'll really appreciate a look at your profile with some comments about the main features (how to set the pinkie switch to work, how you configured your modes -i.e A_A/A_G/NAV etc…-, and some explanations)

Please remember that I am a newbie in this domain, even if I am experienced in computers and programming in general. I don't have trouble about finding a file, or finding the right place for it,but I don't understand well the way SST is working ( i.e If i type two keys in a cell, will they be used one after the other or together with the first key acting as a modifier?…and so on)

 

This could be very useful for me if you had a little time to help me :-)

Go to START/ALL PROGRAMS/SMART TECHNOLOGY/MANUALS and you will see instructions for the profile editor. Try that first. If you use Teamspeak we could talk about it as well. It's just too much info to type in the forums or a PM.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Blooze

[PFunk1606688187]

I just tried to create in DCS, a modifier with the pinkie button on the stick, but either this pinkie button, nor the mode selector button seems to be recognized by DCS.

You need to disable the mode switching and the pinkie switch toggling in the profile or else I don't believe that the Saitek software lets the buttons be recognized as just joystick buttons.

 

@P*Funk

You said "DCS has its own toggle option built in so you can make any joystick button a toggle like the pinkie switch is"

How do you do that ?

 

 

and "I actually disable the mode switching in the saitek software"

 

please tell me how to do that.

Basically you create a new profile in the Saitek software. You then are presented with three modes and three shiftstates for each mode that are triggered by the pinkie switch. Its as easy as clicking the 'X' next to each of the modes and shiftstates at the very top of each column. The only thing to remember is not to delete Mode 1 because that is still going to be used. If you delete the 5 others you should be left with a single mode. However this still uses the Mode1 button. To disable this you should find the blue button with Mode 1 written on it in the remaining column, click no that square in the column, and it will give you a list of buttons which you choose to have select Mode 1. Simply select the "No Buttons" option.

 

You should now have your pinkie switch and 3 mode select buttons free for DCS programming while you have this profile loaded.

 

Lastly you can right click on the X52 icon in your tray, open the Control Panel, and find the MFD page. Uncheck the "Enable Clutch Mode" box and you should now be able to use the Clutch button as a normal joystick button as well.

 

To create a modifier you go to your DCS controls, find the "Modifier" button then "add" any joystick button to this list. I personally use the Clutch button, which is Joybutton_30. Then to use this modifier in any binding in DCS you find the control you want to bind in the list, you double click on it, you depress the joystick button you want to use and if you want it to be with the modifier you select the "Modifier" drop down menu and select the appropriate modifier, which if you're using what I use it would again be Joybutton_30.

 

Then, to use this command in game you would hold down your modifier button then press the other joystick button. This is identical to how you use the Pinkie switchstate in a normal X52 profile. The difference is that we're binding this all to your DCS aircraft directly and the benefit is that you get extra buttons on your HOTAS that aren't used up by the mode switching and shiftstates.

 

 

 

I know that my questions may look stupid, but I'd rely like to be able to make my own programming.

 

For example I'd like to be able to switch to the left, right or HUD MFD using a POV, and have a simple button to press to cycle and select any of the different buttons on these MFD.

Its not stupid, this is really I believe the single most complicated part of being a new player. Its the one that is least clear how to deal with it. It is also the hardest to figure out because unlike aircraft procedures there's no consensus on the "right way" to do this, even with the same joystick/HOTAS.

 

With respect to how you want to access the MFDs, this is when you get back to the part about needing to understand the concept behind the in aircraft HOTAS set up. This is what I meant by its hard for you to make a profile if you don't fully grasp SOI and SPI and how those are meant to be handled with your HOTAS.

 

For instance to select either MFD or the HUD as "Sensor of Interest" you would key the Coolie Hate Left, Right, or Up Long. To cycle the various pages of each MFD you would press Coolie Hat Left or Right Short. To use certain functions on either MFD and the HUD while its SOI would mean using the Slew Hat or the TMS Hat or the DMS Hat or the Boat switch and the China hat. Most other commands associated with MFDs would mean pressing with your mouse cursor any of the OSBs on the bezel surrounding it. With the HUD it could mean using the UFC buttons with your mouse.

 

Its important to know when its practical to use a hotas command and when you should use the clickable cockpit.

 

My profile mimics as best as an X52 can the spirit and intent of the actual HOTAS. This way it creates commonality with real information as well as making it easy to talk to people who use a TM Warthog or who understand the system on paper.

 

In general I believe the intent of the real HOTAS in the real plane is that you may not have every command on your stick or throttle but the ones you absolutely need when you're "In Hot" or "Going Defensive" will be there at your finger tips. My best advice, other than to give you a ready made profile, is to look at the HOTAS commands on pages 88-92 of the pdf manual, then try to bind all of those to your stick and throttle. They are the most important. I use my modifier on the Clutch button to allow me to use every HAT switch twice so everything thats on a HAT in the real plane can be on a HAT in my profile. Also, for the purpose of everything I've said so far, "profile" is defined as the combination of the Saitek profile I use and all the keys bound to my A-10C Sim section of the controls in DCS World. I don't consider them separable.

 

Also, pro tip, those three grey chiclet buttons at the base of your X52 throttle, below the blue MFD, make excellent joystick buttons for DCS. ;)

[Malenace]

Thank you to all of you

I will spend this sunday exploring your infos and will certainly be back for more questions next week ;-)

[Malenace]

Hi everyone !

Like I said, I spend the last week-end to analyze your infos.

My option is to rely most of the time to SST and to allow only axes to DCS

So I made a profile in SST ( Joined and called "Monprofil A10real.pr0) and modified the keyboard default.lua file in DCS to keep only the joystick an throttle (X-Y and Z axis) i but it doesn't work.

 

That is what I do :

 

First of all; I select my SST profile (located in Smart Technoly folder in Public>documents>)by right clicking on its name in the system tray

Then I launch DCS

I go to options>controls, click on a keyboard cell and select "load profile> DCS worls>Mods>Inputs>A10C>Inputs>Mydefault.lua

 

(which is the one where i deleted any joysticks related commands, except the three axes for the joystick commands)

 

Then go to a cell in "Joystick" and clear the profile.

Then Ok

and when I try to fly, it does'nt work...

 

Any help ? please...

MonProfil A-10real.rar

Edited January 8, 2014 by Malenace

[cichlidfan]

I go to options>controls, click on a keyboard cell and select "load profile> DCS worls>Mods>Inputs>A10C>Inputs>Mydefault.lua

 

(which is the one where i deleted any joysticks related commands, except the three axes for the joystick commands)

 

Then go to a cell in "Joystick" and clear the profile.

Then Ok

and when I try to fly, it does'nt work...

 

Any help ? please...

 

Why are you loading your joystick profile into the keyboard column? That is certain to break most everything.

[Malenace]

@cichlidfan

I clear the 'by default" keyboard profile (.lua in DCS) by cicking in a keyboard cell and clicking erase, then I load my "modified" keyboard .lua file in Keyboard by clicking in a keyboard cell, clicking Load profile", and choosing the profile .lua "modified - see below-

. I then click an empty cell in the joystick column and erase it to let the .pro file manage the Joystick

I made a modification to the default.lua file (in subfolder Keyboard of Mod>A-10c Real>Inputs) , because this file used JOY_Slider1 - the slider on the throttle joy) as Throttle

The modification was to substitude JOY_SLIDER1 by JOY_Z which is the throttle in the X-52).

I also deleted every Combo = JOY_xxx (except the X,Y, RZ and Z axis) in the "keyboard> default.lua file to avoid conflicts with my pr0 profile from SST.

So, I guess I have to load only the "modified" "keyboard"default.lua + my profile.pr0 to get DCS working well

Is it Ok ?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Malenace
ar again, to eliminate any pre profile in this column.

[cichlidfan]

I don't know what you modified, but there are no axis assignments or 'joy_' anything in the default keyboard lua for the A-10C.

 

 

BTW, editing the games own default is a bad idea. Modify what you need in Options>Controls and then save the profile. That is the correct and safe way to change things.

 

EDIT: Then if you want to edit the file, edit the saved one.

Edited January 8, 2014 by cichlidfan