Anatoli-Kagari9

´ Actually this characteristic bleed of speed with Gs / positive AoA is marked, and I believe realistic in DCS vs another ww2 sim... where I can easily pull and wait until I am in trouble for quite a while longer...

There's a workaround... It's not perfect, but I tried it maybe 1 yr ago when there were also some lighted debates about the pitching up moment of the 109 K-4 in DCS World... Some user came up with a pitch axis curve that actually displaced the stick a bit fwd at the mid ( centre ) position of the scale. Of course this doesn't work like the deflected elevator trim tabs do work for instance in IL-2 Great Battles, where we can actually see the stick moving fwd / elevator deflecting down as power is applied on ground, simply due to propwash, but the end effect is the same. I lost those curve settings along the various uninstalls of DCS, and weeping of all stuff associated with it from my disk - whenever I think to myself... what am I doing playing war games almost in the third age... - but I will try to create a new one or find it back. Maybe one day Yo-Yo wakes up and thinks: "Heck, that guy will start using diapers again and he still doesn't have the trim tabs... Let's do it!..." EDIT: Found It, and it was actually 3 yrs ago - wow!... complaining about it for such a long time !!!! https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160620&highlight=pitch+curve

Since I decided to buy this ADORABLE module, anything these Octopus guys can give us will do! First buy from me, should my pocket allow! BIG KUDOS to the Octopus !!! :-) And a BIG LESSON to developers out there because serious, professional work is possible, even if comming from a completely different platform like MSFS / P3D, leaving their confort zone and investing on an expensive platform for developers as I believe DCS is...

It's also worth mentioning that, as supposed, as your fuel tank get's emptied, the nose down "heaviness" fades proportionally... Of course an empty tank far from home is a lot more worrying than having to use a bit of fwd stick in cruise :-)

Specially after the dismay with the hype put on another "promissed" ww2 3dparty project that never came to live.... I can only hope that OctopusG finds the motivation to continue investing in DCS World :thumbup: Having been a devoted MSFS user until around 2008, I confess I never had eared of them.

Bought! Major pain after just having bought that Gorgeous :-) I-16..... That's more than I can invest, per month, in flight simulation :-) - DCS grounds me ....

They didn't save in details... graphical but also functional. - The way you see the gear retraction stop as soon as you start flying too fast, and the pilot wouldn't have enough strength to turn the gear crank; - The flaps not deploying above some speeds for the same reason; - The effects of the canted tail fin ( vertical ) and this is just a small list :-)

In my case and since I do not play air combat, but use DCS just to enjoy the "feel of flight", as much as I use IL2 GB, I will be satisfied with being able to use the aircraft to fly around and perform some aerobatics, or formation flight with other online players feeling the same harmonious control I get in the G series and the K-4 in that other sim, where indeed the trim tabs, aileron, rudder and elevator, are all set for a cruise speed of around 450 - 500 km/h

Thx Euan! I'll be a bit busy the next few days, but will certainly try to find the time to at least join your Discord server.

@rel4y, I believe @shagrat has already acknowledged the use of the trim tabs, and in this post he's mentioning the part of the document where it's written that they're set by ground crew. @shagrat also has suggested that the option for making the elevator trim tabs adjustment available in the special settings menu of DCS for the K-4 could be opened at "users's own risk". In this regard, being an element of the Team, even if as external colaborator, @shagrat, as he himself noted, is already going as far as he can go. So, the question here for me turns out to be just one regarding the possible limitations of such an implementation. Probably as it was created the K-4 flight dynamics model isn't ready for this aditional control, and making it available is too complex, or would require a lot of work that isn't compatible with the current development schedule - I believe new ww2 modules are in the making... Yet, if this is the case then, I would like to see it clearly stated by the development team, since we all agree that: a) there were 2 elevator trim tabs and their size was actually increased from that of previous models; b) at least during the tests mentioned in that report these trim tabs were used and set away from neutral; So, it would be more realistic to allow for the same settings in DCS, just as it is allowed to adjust the rudder and the aileron ground adjustable tabs.

Euan, thanks ! I would really like to join you, but I'm far from VR. I actually started using TIR for the first time around 2014, and it made using this kind of simulation a lot easier and interesting. Unfortunately about a year ago that TIR broke for good. But recently I bought EDtracker, which makes a new entry into "3d-awareness" again :-) but that's as far as I can go for now :-)

Anyway, I'm back playing DCS, and that's for sure thanks to this I-16 !

This I-16 Type 24 relighted my interest in DCS World. I never tried OctopusG's add-ons for other platforms ( believe FSX and P3D only ? ), and my experience with non-ED / Belsimtek modules for DCS was very dissatisfying, with the exception of the Mig-21, but I gave up on modern air combat jets for good... so I was very reluctant to buy the I-16. Watched all of the available videos during teh two days after release, and eventually decided to give it a try. Wow! It's REMARKABLE! What a Great module! Bring back more !!!!

Yo-Yo, I would really like to be able to play those tests too, in the DCS Simulator. So, we need the elevator trim tabs to become adjustable, otherwise the tests will not be realistic according to that document.

Ok Yo-Yo, I believe I'll try a different, much more practical / pragmatic approach! Implement the adjustable elevator trim tabs, visit Portugal and I'll pay you a dinner with some excellent Portuguese wine !!! What about that ? Can you refute it ?

Thank you guys, but I do know about landing techniques overall :-) specially softfield, from RL... Problem is the way ground physics appears to be modeled in DCS World, and I somehow got the idea it is customized for each module ( ? ) I honestly tried landing to the side of one of the rws with the I-16 and it looked like a perfectly acceptable grass surface, but I crashed "remarkably" :-)

Having seen both videos bellow, by a well known DCS user - he's videos are really interesting / good ! - I wonder how he manages to land without crashing, even the recently released I-16 still in "Early Access" ? Might the settings of "grass" in the Graphics section of DCS have anything to do with it ??? I usually have it set very low or nill in order to not impact my old rig performance, but now I wonder if it can have a side effect reagarding "surface modeling" ?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Curly, I really can't think of anything clearer than your explanation above! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: P.S.: But probably the developers of this module did have access to the report of the first test above, regarding the idle dives, where the risks of setting the trim tabs are described, but not to the 2nd part where powered / full throttle dives are referred, and the reverse applies, making the setting of the trim tabs into nose-heavy positions understandable / advantageous. In the end I honestly believe that all of the arguments presented so far are clearly in favor of an update to the current module, even if with low priority given that other modules should by now be in development and probably taking a lot of time already from the dev team ( ? )

For a given fuel / amno load reference, say 60% fuel in the DCS 109 settings, ISA atmospheric conditions, and a given altitude, what will be the lowest power setting above which full nose heavy stabilator trim will not be sufficient to overcome the pitching up moment ? Is it within continuous and combat power settings ? Is it emmergency ? Whatever it is, the pilot will then have to exert a force, constant, pushing on the stick to maintain altitude. If the trim tabs are then used / set on ground to a given deflection angle, this force will probably be eliminated for those same flight conditions, so, just as rudder and aileron trim tabs are adjusted to save the pilot from the need for constant rudder and / or aileron deflection at cruise why wouldn't it make sense to give him the very same chance regarding the use of down elevator ?

I am a bit confused about that permanent requirement to pull the stick in pretty much all configurations ( flaps IN ) and loads, with the I-16. It becomes tedious, and while I've tried har to find pilot notes on it's flight characteristics, and particularly for teh Typ2 24, I couldn't but find pilots that describe it as very harmonious inflight. Also find huge that pitching up moment that results from flap deployment above 15 deg... that then put's me pushing the stick so hard ? Any links to descriptions of these flight characteristics are certainly welcomed! EDIT: From this other post the solution is evident... https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3911259&postcount=43

As seen from the aft-most point of the aircraft... :-) or, even better... As seen from an observer behind the aircraft...

Clockwise. Left turning tendencies, albeit any built in compensations, there being no controlable trims in teh cockpit...

Wow! Charly's at it already :-)

A sophisticated "fly"... :-)