Solty

You do know that K4 is faster at high alt than P-51D with 67'hg, right?

I agree. I have read that escort fighters were on many occasions outnumbered 2:1 and worst was10:1. Germans had the ability to regroup forces before attacking, as allied bombers were seen on radars and were easy to intercept. And those escorts, even p51, had to fly zig-zaging over bombers and had to be replaced by other fighter groups at certain points of the mission.

I am OK with current implementation. Is it server side or is it client based? Because jets can have medium option while smaller WW2 planes focused servers can go with large setting.

Thank u dirkan. That's what I've read many years ago.

Who said it was suppose to be better? The 109 was overperforming before, so its natural it is going to feel weaker now. Until we get a response from YoYo (or other ED staff) I think we can assume it is a bug.

Great work

Well, I had a short discussion with YoYo a year ago... as I thought similarly... but it appears that: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1970423&postcount=380 And there seems to be a mix of opinions. I have read that the Mustang is pleasant at all speeds, and that in comparisson the 190 is a very stiff aircaft. The F16 pilot says that it got "stiff" but he also says that he "wanted to use both hands" but it seems that he didn't(?!). http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/wright-field-fw190d-9.pdf "Maneuvrability and Aerobatics: The outstanding maneuvrability trait of this plane is its rate of roll. In this respect it compares well with P51D and P47 (...). The radius of turn however is poor and elevator forces in tight turns are xcessive. Constant stabilizer adjustments is required in turns and if pulled in too abruptly a fast stall with little warning will occur."

That's the way of saying. I use it because it fits my way of thinking better. Stick to the data. Also stall speeds are listed in the manual with and without flaps, what more do you want?

Improved multiplayer! Without it the game will stay unpopulated. We need new netcode quick. Its hard to do combat in this combat simulator :( Second on my list would be a new WW2 map with units for it... but that doesn't matter as long as the server issue is not resolved :( There are issues to be resolved and wanting more planes won't help the game, thats why WW2 community is not jumping around demanding more planes when the promissed 6 were not even finished yet.

I would say that proper engine and turbo simulation were probably the issue. Probably...: 3

Sure it was... that would be the D12 and D13 that actually had significant advantages at high alt. D9 was though still optimised for low-medium altitude, but yes it had better high alt performance than the A serries. Also why those improvments were needed? Due to P-51 and P47 outperforming Fw190A at high altitude.

And I would be absolutely on board :D +1 and change the K4 to 109G14 and that would be a perfect project :3 @Sith, I am not telling you what you "should" do. I am just saying that this is a way of thinking that never went through my mind. To me Dora was a reaction to the P-51D and it came so late in the war that it was present only for the Reich defense (and maybe for Op. Bondenplatte). And P-47 was made as a high altitude fighter. That you think of it as a ground attack plane is well... underestimating the influence of the air war. Highest scoring pilot on Western front was Francis Gabreski and he flew with P-47s from early to D model. I am not telling you that because "I think you should" I am trying to show you what was its purpose during the real warfare of 1940s :) I am sorry if that was seen as rude. Just wanted to point out that knowledge flow is a good thing on any forums.

All German planes flew high alt too. Fw190A8 was going for bombers. Fw190D9 and Bf109s were going for the escorts most of the time. But some Bf109's were also going for bombers. Luftwaffe was using everything at every altitude. At Eastern front all planes were mostly flying low alt, as most Soviet attack aircraft were flying at alt below 3000m with fighter escorts at similar hight. 109s most of the time operated at low alt. Only since USAAF started the daylight bombings they started to fly high altitude to intercept them. Also Fw190 had many versions same as the 109. Some 109s were especially made for high alt like the G4 or G6/AS that were optimised for that alt, but most of 109s were G6 and they weren't actually optimised for high altitude. Also Dora (Fw190D9) is usually called "the mustang killer" or at least is paired as the perfect enemy for the P-51D... thats why I was suprised you said that Spitfire was suppose to be its main oponent :P

Just one more thing. P47 is not a ground attack plane but specialized high altitude fighter. Its best performance is around 8000m. Both 109K and190D are faster than the Spit we will have so K4 is still "better" in speed department at low altitude than the Spit :3. Well that is certainly a way of looking at things that I have never considered :)

Yeah I get it and understand it. It is just that some gamey thing stands in the way of full realism and there isn't a quick and easy solution to it.

If thats what you feel... well fine. To me thats an exploit and on the border of cheat (what you are doing as well). I always put my trim on my keyboard to simulate reaching for it even though I could have it on my stick. :mad: This convinces me that even more rigid system should be used. Maybe the pilot while using the wheel should have less strenght as if his arm was preoccupied, and as long as it is turning the throttle should be unusable?! In that case you can have your trim wheel axis, just make sure for it to work in a realistic way. For all planes that is. Why would you buy a WW2 plane to have automated trim is beyond me. But again, thats just me.

How so? The Spit's main advantage is its turn radious. The 190 is a B&Z aircraft and inherently does a better job at diving and zooming. If a competent Dora pilot would fight a Spit, the Spitfire player can only evade or try snapshots, also 190D9 is faster in level flight. To me Spit would be better against the 109 which is more of a turner and not even close to what Spit can do. Maybe Germans will stop breaking into turnning fights (although that is prartialy a problem with P-51 pilots that follow them too) as they will be afraid of the Spitfire cutting into their turns and leaving me more time to shoot at them :P With any normal setting I would say 190 all the way. But we have D9 vs deamon called K4... I would say K4, just because of that acceleration and that a bit better turn and that easier flight characteristics. I think in games the 109 problems do not carry well into the virtual world, and pilot fatigue is not a thing so... So I voted K4. What I realy love about the Fw190 is the roll rate and ability to make good deflection shots at high speeds. Thats awesome. Oh and the cockpit is awesome too. PS. I like Dora better, but I find the K4 in the GAME easier to get kills with. In any other circumstance, or if we talked about IRL I would say Fw190 without a doubt.

Where did you get the idea that I don't know how aircombat works? For level turning that would be of very little use btw. Sustained turns bleed E and that makes turning for the 109 easier. But, It is to pull through tough maneuvers, while keeping the focus on the target. For example. If a P-51 does a Spilt-S at 500kph and 109 follows, the 109 is not going to be able to make it at low alt, or at least is going to make the pull very slowly. You just push your trim max at the begining of the maneuver and you can follow the P-51 through it, then you just pull the wheel back to the max nose down possition to reduce pitching moment and voila. Done. Or even to just pull deflection at high speed, without too much of a hastle. And no I don't see how that wouldn't be an exploit. When I had the 109 the wheel moved similar to the P-51's cannopy handle, and I felt thats ok. PS. I understand that you wouldn't use it like that, but I am aware of exploiters. If the system would be robust enough for you to turn in 1:1 with the game, that would be awesome and I would have no problem and say. 'YAY change that'. But as it stands now most people don't want to fly the plane, just to fly the winining plane. Well, for one you need to constantly hold the button, with the other you just push a thing and it becomes "automatic"... for me that a tremendous change. One of the reasons that I use Free Track is that I don't have to use HAT. I can't maneuver when I use it. My brain can't filter that. One hand is suppose to do the maneuvering and changing views all the time, thats too much. Same here with the trim or flaps. Or am I missing something?

There is a point in triming the plane like that. You start trimming it up and you get it easier to turn at high speed and maneuver at the same time. So thats "cheat" as the 109 stiffness is reduced to not even beeing a factor as you can trim and fly with full focus on maneuvering and disregard the trimming wheel on its own as it is "automatically" turning itself. Get it?

Because you will just push it once 'wziium' and it will trim itself for a minute while you will be maneuvering and operating throttle at the same time. Unless that throttle wheel simulates rotary control so well that you will be cranking it 1:1 with the real thing.

Listen, to me it is made like that because they want to show that the 109's pilot had to leave the stick for a good while to get that thing cranking and and it takes time to set it into the right possiton. IRL when you want to trim/drop flaps you need one of your hands for a while moving the wheel. Unlike in the P-51 which seems to be, way easier and a few of motions is needed. Maybe thats just my perception. Just what I feel.

But its only your subjective view that what is modeled now is not "realistic" :)

With an open cannopy and on the ground, not in flight. I mean tell me what happens in DCS? When you hold the button it it stops and you need to push it again? Sorry but my DCS is not working (I need a new PC) so that I can't tell what is the issue.

In P-51 you can turn it with one movment of your wrist. The 109 has a big wheel that you need to turn in a cramped place. Check this 109 video of flaps deployment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8. So I presume that this trim wheel and flap wheel does that in intervalls just to simulate turning of the wheel with the hand. Or is it something else that I didn't understand from your description :/

It simulates the 109's manual crank, as you have to use one of your hands to keep the wheel cranking. You can't just set it into one position and wait for it to set itself. You need to keep it moving all the time. If it was an axis you would just push it to max and it would turn on its own and you wouldn't have to be distraced and that would make for an unrealistic simulation of manual crank of elevator trim/flaps. In P-51 it is automatic so it works there.