WinterH

I'd imagine fairly similarly with how it is in tomcat already. If you have that your can tey it out, or just take a look at YouTube for jester lantirn. Also, for Mavericks, AFAIK both pilot and WSO can slew and lock mavericks' seeker so less dependency there. For unguided bombs, I don't remember whether bombing computer panel was supposed to be at front or rear cockpit, but inclined to say rear. But in either case most of the time it'll be something you'd program once, possibly even before the takeoff. So should be fine I'd assume. But we'll only really know post release I guess.

AIM-7E2 was called the "dogfight sparrow" wasn't it? Sparrow has pretty good acceleration, and with those huge control surfaces, I think it was supposed to be a slightly more agile missile than later AMRAAMs. But then both of these are just anectodal stuff from here and there, and not from anything we can consider a primary source. In the end, even if Sparrow is good as a dogfight weapon, the requirement of holding a lock for 4 seconds before firing one would probably make them very dogfight-unfriendly, and that 4 seconds stuff is indeed from a primary source: F-4E manuals.

As with everything, it depends on what do you compare it against. Against what's generally called 4th gen, teen series etc, nah, it's not young to do well. Compare it to what we have/will have in future that fits its generation, F-4E with slats will be one of the best dogfighters imo. Yes, it's big, heavy, has reservations about this whole high AoA thing etc. So it'll be difficult to get the best out of I assume. But at the same time it has a crapload of power and speed, AND when managed right, its instantaneous turn rate is equal or better than anything in its gen, and the sustained turn rate is pretty much better than all AFAIK. Of course it'll depend on what you fight. Mirage F1, MiG-21Bis, F-5E are all close enough to you in performance and agility. MiG-19 and upcoming MiG-17 can turn better in a slow fight, but F-4 is way faster than either, so using the vertical plane and adopting a more hit/run kind of approach may be an option etc. At least these are my quasi-educated guesses, we'll see soon enough I guess

Right... ok... lemme click "mark as solution", this post wins the thread

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think almost any country got the early F-16A blocks with 7 segment display for an "MFD" as an export right? Also some of the export customers were pretty quick to F-16C version already during the 80s. Anyway, personally, I'd love that early A with a cockpit that'd feel alien when most people think about F-16, failing that, I'd be happy with any between Block 15-25. If later, I suppose Block 40 would be cool with its wide and FLIR displaying HUD, but that'd be too close in many ways to our Block 50.

I would strongly assume the point of this thread is for an OG Block 10 to 20, maybe even 5, so exactly that extreme old-schoolness. Thus, TGP would be out of window anyway. Without later updates such as MLU etc, I believe the first F-16 to have a TGP was Block 40 with LANTIRN at late 80s or early 90s. Why not both sounds good, but systems wise they would be fairly different, so not sure if it would be desirable/feasible for a dev.

Well anytime I try something in those other sims I go "man I wish this was in DCS". My preference lies very strongly in Cold War, especially late Cold War for DCS too, but hopefully not at the expense of best warbirds anywhere in the sim world. But then, that Su-17 OctopusG teased some time ago is the only thing I am excited for as much as F-4E. And between Mag3 and OctoG, I'd prefer OctopusG to make it.

Depends on your definition of multirole. If you want a jet that can do air to air, interdiction, SEAD, and anything in between, and do them all pretty great, your options are limited to: F/A-18C F-16C JF-17 The latter is probably by far the most beginner friendly, but won't be considered by most for some reasons. Reasons which about 80 percent of should have the prefix "hurr durr". But it also has real limitations in payload, range, and sporting a variant of MiG-29's engine, it does smoke enough to be easily traceable in the sky. Other two is a toss between, by now they are both fairly well developed, so which one you like more would be the answer. Mirage 2000 is a fun thing indeed. And is, for me, a better mix of old and new. But it's fit for the multirole moniker is less certain than the above 3. It can carry rockets and dumb bombs with cool delivery modes, and laser guided bombs that require an external laser source for targeting as Mirage can't use a targeting pod itself. F-15C has absolutely zero multirole capability in DCS, well maybe aside from strafing if you go that mad and it's a FC3 rather than full fidelity. There's also Razbam's relatively recent F-15E. It's less dogfight friendly than F-15C, being heavier and draggier. But it has the best air to ground radar in DCS. It's in relatively early development though, and even when complete it won't have as diverse payload options as the first 3, but will be better in strike missions especially in bad weather and night. It can carry a pretty insane amount of bombs. Finally, F-14 is also carrier capable, but is also a lot more old-school than any other listed so far. Also you need to rely on an AI crew-mate in the backseat. As for the multirole aspect, it is similar with Mirage 2000C to some degree, but it can also carry the LANTIRN targeting pod, so it can lase for its own laser guided bombs. Like the Strike Eagle, it too can carry an enormous bomb load.

I'd pay for another package with EQ5 or 6, as well as one of A types.

Almost forgot! Call me crazy or whatever, but I'd love a well made Su-26M

Ah yes... always love how these threads tend to de... eeerr I mean evolve

Well since the thread is about jets, I didn't add my prop and helo wishes. Il-10 is cool and all, but honestly I'd rather have Il-2 of some description, iconic, served in WW2 in a huge capacity etc. I'd also love I-153, Yak-9s and maybe Yak-3 too, Pe-2, Mi-2, Mi-6 or Mi-26, and while rather impossible Ka-52 and/or Mi-28N.

Among the listed, my preference in order: MiG-27K MiG-25PD or PDS + RBT and/or BM. If we'll only ever get one variant, I guess interceptor is the most iconic. I would enjoy having some MiG-25s anyway. Su-15: Interesting-ish but I'd rather see other things not on this list before it. Su-25 full fidelity: I love the froggy, full-fi would be nice, but can do without too. Yak-38: Don't care, don't want. One of the very few red aircraft I wouldn't buy. However, there are other red-jets I prefer over all of them, maybe other than MiG-27. For me a Su-17M4 or if that's not possible Su-17M3, or their Su-22 equivalent, is at the top of the list. There have been multiple signs of it being considered by various people, but they all amount to nothing for now. I do personally hope we'll get it from OctopusG as a full fidelity module eventually, but we'll see. Following that, I'd love either MiG-21F-13 or it's J-7 equivalent, but also a very late J-7 too. Latter is sadly not likely to happen I think though, and with us already having the Bis, it may be doubtful that another dev would go for another Fishbed variant. Su-24 I'd really love, but I don't think it is likely at all sadly. Any Flanker would be amazing too, but again, don't see it happening. I'd also love a few of the Chinese types, especially Q-5, but seeing Deka had to go for a semi-Western prototype variant, I don't think we will be getting any domestic Chinese fighters, especially notthing this side of Cold War.

I wouldn't mind getting some description of Mi-2, preferrably one of the UPGs with crazy armament options. I'd love Mi-28 or Ka-52 too, but they really don't seem likely at all. Something big like Mi-6 or Mi-26 would be cool too.

Shrikes are mostly as they should be imo, and for me the way to use them is "bring 4, fire all at once, hope for the best". Ideally at least in a two-ship if you have friends to fly with you! Their poor accuracy and small warheads almost require this technique in my opinion. This still leaves the centerline available for weapons for mopping up or fuel if either is needed. Sometimes I even had "one shot one kill" against things like Tunguska, which I think Shrike should not even be able to target, but not sure. But that's a roll of the dice of course. They aren't realiable yes, and they aren't supposed to be either. But I don't think they are worthless either.

To be fair, mechanicus can also be considered a somewhat comical faction in 40K. Not quite orks level of it but, still

Personally I'd only care about a 2000D.

Oi seez anyfin' Orky, Oi'z approvez! WAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!

Does anybody here know what's different in the slightly upgraded variant of APQ-120 on DMAS bird btw? Wonder if it makes Sparrow employment any better, or was it just a reliability update etc. Didn't know 4 secs delay didn't apply to AIM-7F, good to know, and we should be getting F too. I personally don't remember reading about a delay for Sidewinders in the manuals, but been sometime I've checked it last. I wouldn't be super suprised if it is the case, as most of the contemporaries we have in DCS like MiG-21Bis and Mirage F1 have some delay in firing off heat seeking missiles, but at the same time I don't remember it being as dramatic on F-5E, which is also mostly contemporary with the variants we'll get.

I wasn't thinking about how it's modeled tbh, afaik there are target acquision angle charts floating online for it and even original R-60 wasn't totally tail chase afaik. But I could be wrong as I don't have docs I can quote right away. In the end though, I really don't believe F-4E vs MiG-21Bis will be nearly as clear an advantage for F-4 as you think, but we'll see. And that's unless AIM-9L or M is involved of course. I didn't see them in the manuals I had (I think latest one I had was late 70s or 80s, seems they are mentioned in 90s update of the manual) but it looks like they were a possibility, and they are visible in teaser material we've seen so far. With those Phantom will have a pretty decent and reliable head-on lock and they're a lot less likely to happily eat flares than R-60M. Even then I'd still say it isn't a black-white advantage, but a significant one anyway. I'm also looking forward to F-4E and Mirage F1 matchup. And while we're at it, why not throw in F-5E too even though this one is historically less likely than others. We'll eventually have MiG-23MLA too at some point, and I personally expect it to out-do Phantom in BVR unless two BVR missiles end up proving too few a number, we'll see. By the time it's released perhaps Naval F-4s with pulse-doppler radars will be a thing too who knows. Anyway, the thread is air to ground ordnance options and this started to feel like a detour from that To be fair I personally am more looking forward to F-4E for old'sCOOL "advanced" air to ground stuff anyway. Gimme them crap TGPs, old Mavericks, LGBs and TV bombs, and a whole load of iron bombs to use with old-ass funky bombing modes And shrikes. Yes, gloriously useless shrikes

R-60s have puny warheads. But afaik even baseline R-60 is not just tail aspect but more rear hemispehere. It is give and take between pre-L AIM-9s and R-60s. Sidewinders have better range and greater warheads, probably better flare rejection too, not sure. R-60s are a lot more agile, and have a very short minimum range. R-60Ms are mostly all aspect, but by their time AIM-9L and M could be possible too which are overall better anyway. As for the AIM-7s, they are A LOT better than R-3R of course. However, they didn't have a great track record either, even upgraded variants like AIM-7Ms in Desert Storm, also in F-4E, as far as I remeber you need to wait for 4 seconds after a radar lock for a Sparrow to be ready, otherwise it'll go dumb, and afaik you need to manually count, there isn't any indication. I expect this will make their use tricky up close, especially head-on.

All this colorful discussion aside, I'll approach the matter from a different angle: I don't think number of aircraft produced is an overly important factor in deciding what modules shall be made for DCS. Sure it has some weight maybe, but pretty much takes a distant last after various things important for different people like fitting a period/theater/history, having good fits as enemies/allies in DCS as existing or upcoming modules, being interesting to fly, being old, new, good, bad, or even just looking good :)) For AI aircraft I can agree to a degree. But it ain't easy/cheap to make 3d models to the degree of quality ED has set for even those, and we're waiting for some updated ones for years now.

Well depends, if you mean Vietnam, yeah. But our MiG-21Bis and F-4Es all have capabilities post-Vietnam, so if you don't limit loadouts in the mission, MiG can return the favor with R-60M and also R-3R to some degree.

Personally, I'd really hope OctopusG's next bird will be that Su-17M4 they have teased a year or two ago. If not that, I'd be happy to see more WWII aircraft from them, either more Soviet warbirds like Yak-9U or Yak-3 for late war, or Il-2, Pe-2, I-153, or as an opponent to I-16, a Bf-109E-7. Or even that An-2 they have made for another sim earlier La-9 or La-11 doesn't make it to my list though, I'd prefer anything above rather than those.

As far as I recall it was 1979 or so, but there have been a few additional updates to DMAS birds up to 1986 afaik. Basically it is safe to count it as an 80s bird.