Baz000

i’m on my phone so it’s hard for me to tell exactly with the smaller screen but I do notice he doesn’t bring it near 0 until after touchdown

here he lands at around 10 AOA and vertical speed near 5 m/s

first of all a delta wing MiG-21 would be far more comparable to a MiG-29 than a L-410 cargo/passenger plane considering it is a Soviet fighter jet from the very same design bureau with very similar design philosophy of combat operations. Here, you can see MiG-27s landing on highway training, from 11-0 it shows view from the nose wheel strut while landing

i’ll look for more and in particular with the MiG-29 airframe but here is what I found so far

To me it seems extremely excessive, especially when watching Anatoliy land in his MiG-29 hard onto the ground. Sorry I keep bringing it up but it is the only hard MiG-29 landing I can find video of, every other pilot wants to baby it back onto the runway lol. This issue is more to do about the design of the aircraft and the landing gears, obviously it has more durable landing gear than say F-16. Also it could be some other issue in entirety like drag from flaps or other control surfaces, engine thrust, wing having too much lift effect on ground, effects of ground effect hitting the plane. Could be so many other factors involved or even multiple factors together. To me I observe like the plane wants to fall out of the sky when on landing approach, very unforgiving when you finally get close to runway and try to flare and you have such little margin of AOA and sink rate. Flying the Su-27 for example I have alot of margin between the approach and flare where I don’t seem like i’m behind the power curve and going to stall the plane in the performance of the flare, in fact I don’t even need to have perfect landing approach as long as I time the flare correctly, whereas in the MiG i’m constantly fighting to keep the plane in the air and not develop excessive sink rate or AOA and stall.

It also is not a similar landing technique as with the MiG-21 which I also fly in DCS? Maybe we need training mission for MiG-29 or additional documentation added to the DCS manual?

It isn't only the A model experiencing this BTW, I suspect all of the MiG-29s are having this behavior.

here is another video plus track observation: to me it seems like compared to the DCS Flanker on landing the MiG loads up with AOA much faster and also can develop excessive sink rate quickly if not having the pilot pay attention to it, one of the problems I have is while looking at VVI or better yet, constantly staring at it while giving managing back-pressure with stick and moving the throttles... If I don't every so often look at the AOA scale I can find it has built upto around 15 degrees AOA, sometimes I do feel buffeting warning of an approaching stall by the cockpit shake but landing the MiG seems very unforgiving unlike the Flanker. Even in the flare for landing / round out the Flanker is not building so much AOA and feels like stalling. I can hike the nose up in the Flanker without fear of excessive sink rate or AOA on the landing flare and touch the wheels down smooth and gentle as well as maintain the nose high for aerobraking. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qS9ajaHXDb4qOKvu53P6vUnhGnr_on-S/view?usp=sharing Su-27 landing for comparison:

That is all we ask as loyal MiG and DCS lovers and I will help as much as I can by posting videos and tracks of what I am experiencing

here is example I just did, I was trying to hold no more than 11 degrees AOA on approach and landing with no more sink rate that 5m/s

Here I just crashed in this track, it looks like also I have no friction on skidding down the runway after crashing when trying to land... I'm doing more attempts to try to narrow down the cause. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KE37LvyK_n4eB1_PRNSJHEvqaP5FNG-v/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RnKGacQEgVbXl5NcNwBihVH_pecDLXne/view?usp=sharing

I have a track here where I landed and had a main wheel tire burst and I have no idea why https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yVtpplNR4YWpBmfnCzCza_MgYcwJ_2pO/view?usp=sharing I will jump ingame and record a few more shorter tracks of just landings. I appreciate you cannot replicate 100% the landing Anatoliy does but my intention for pointing it out was to show the aircraft behavior, sucks we can’t know those parameters he used

why should I stop it is a video of a real landing with the plane, it is hard to find such a video in the first place... I spent lots of my time to find it and it clearly does demonstrate the rugged landing gear of the plane and how well MiG designers did in the engineering of it

yeah I did and I saw you are trying to replicate the same way Anatoliy lands but the deployment of the drag chute needs to occur higher off the ground based on the real video also with little to no flaring up of the nose

Yo-Yo, I show here real MiG-29 pilot landing with some other technique that what is prescribed in pilots operation manual see the resulting behavior of the plane when making contact with the ground, I never noticed him even raise the nose for the landing after making wings level. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4409121&postcount=43 Also, on his landing he deploys the drag chute at least the the same height if you take the vertical tails and extrapolate another vertical tail below the fuselage in relation with the ground so some considerable height above the ground prior to initial touchdown on gear.

tell those Russian MiG pilots they have to have proof to their claims, maybe they have test footage of landing gear during development of the plane?

think I fixed the links now for the tracks so they should be downloadable

I have shown video evidence of a real MiG-29 landing what is considered in an unorthodox improper manner, hard on relatively on all 3 wheels with drag chute deployed while still in the air with little to no flare for landing as well as absolutely zero aerobraking. Why is there even still a ridicules debate when users are experiencing the nose strut flinging them back into the air like some cartoon character using trampoline?

if you watch Anatoliy land you can see there is limited nose flaring with his landing in comparison to yours

sorry I didn't bother to read 12 pages of this thread, but I have noticed when i'm not max performing the plane to 7 Gs and only pulling say 4 to 5 and have a pretty basic R-77 and R-73 loadout it does seem to me that the plane is bleeding way too much energy in a fight and your no good in a fight as a wallowing target and i'm very surprised because I was always led to believe that the MiG-29 was the counterpart to the Hornet because of its love of AOA in a fight

So I have here 5 tracks for comparison... 3 of MiG-29 over the hump campaign, missions 1 and 2 because mission 2 had more waypoints and more complicated flight plan. I did the same with Su-27 because they should be the same navigation instruments the Soviets designed commonality in their aircraft as well as their pilot training. In the case of the Su-27 I did the first mission of the ultimate argument DLC campaign and the Fortress Mozdok campaign. in all of the missions I am acting like a HUD crippled pilot using the steering circle in navigation mode on the HUD for remaining on the proper flight path and altitude per the assigned flight plans respectively. The only time I deviate from this is when I switch to A/A modes to take care of business before continuing on my flight plan on the missions. In some of the tracks I don't make it back to base and I die in the hands of the enemy. In others I do make it back to base and I land quite gracefully except for in the MiG-29 where somehow I burst a tire on landing and would like to find out how that happened? You can also see alot of weird AI behavior such as taxiing way too close to the player aircraft almost ramming my exhaust with their pitot tube (how rude!) to coming in to land in what would appear to look like a good formation landing in tandem only to abort at the moment the player touches down and completely distract me and I mess up the aerobrake and scrape the tail on the ground. To the most common problem I see alot of is the aimlessly circling the landing pattern trying to land but never doing so only to eject because of fuel starvation. This last one happens alot. Back to the flight director behavior... It looks like this thing is working by having you fly over the steerpoint instead of directing you to the next steerpoint when you reach proximity of the one you just are about to fly over. The problem with this is you are always off course in your turns and it directs you to constantly be turning to correct course without ever correcting your course in some case and you just end up needlessly burning and wasting fuel. Also, when you reach a steerpoint where you need to turn 180 degrees like in the first mission of The Ultimate Argument where you have to do CAP between waypoints 3 and 4 and also in the second mission of Over the Hump campaign where you have to turn back around so you don't go too far to the south, the flight director circle keeps sending you in the wrong direction 180 degrees to where you need to go to make it to the waypoint and stay on flight plan. Another observation, this time with my AI wingmen in 4 ship formation... It seems that in finger 4 and spread finger 4 number 2 in the formation always wants to switch sides. In finger 4 he is always on my right and in spread finger 4 the other element and number 2 wants to cross each other and spread out, thus number 2 being on my left instead of the right. I think it is pretty standard for number 2 to stay on the right and if I spread the formation using the spread 4 command to have 2 separate 2 ship elements, number 2 should stay on my left in both the finger 4 and spread 4 and 3 and 4 should always be to my right as standard being that they are the second element that way they don't have to cross each other and deconflict. I cringe every time I see number 2 cross over to my left side after being on the right, he ought to always be on my left and need not cross over and deconflict with 3 and 4 because I swear one of these days I feel like I will see them crash into each other lol. Also immediately on takeoff the guidance from the flight director circle is not getting you onto the correct flight path efficiently either, again causing you to make multiple turns. And it doesn't want you doing standard instrument turns either, it literally wants you doing break turns lol Also the assigned altitudes and speeds on the HUD are not matching the positioning of the flight director circle, in particular the assigned altitude of steerpoint is off by 400 to 500 m constantly. When you look at the ADI, I imagine what you should see is 2 yellow needles centered and the 2 out lying white lines centered inside the white circles on the outer perimeter of the ADI, this is not the case if you follow the yellow needles, the white altitude line is never in the white circle if you have the yellow needles centered and vice versa too. MiG-29 over the hump mission 1 (flat tire landing at end and simple flight plan) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yVtpplNR4YWpBmfnCzCza_MgYcwJ_2pO/view?usp=sharing MiG-29 over the hump mission 2 (first attempt I get shot down after perpetual dogfight with a nasty F-5E that won't bug out) https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ePF3PY4RlUrQe0nCFBfUC8Yla1f30LF/view?usp=sharing MiG-29 over the hump mission 2 (second attempt I get shot down again by a sneaky F-5E but this time my flight director tells me to fly further south after I am way off course and doesn't direct me to get back onto the flight path for the mission) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KKatCgsDq3N5no0CzHMn9GNTDmTufT00/view?usp=sharing Su-27 the ultimate argument (simple flight plan, same thing on takeoff it wants many turns to get on the assigned flight path... Unfortunately my AI wingman dies because I was a little too slow getting a R-73 off at a Su-25) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fXNBWnJWK35ztATmj70yWCmgSRFpbF-R/view?usp=sharing Su-27 fortress Mozdok (more complex flight plan, no combat... Only seeing me struggle to stick to the flight plan following that director circle around) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G4t749l-CXpdJO9sN_l_fkmuzEtP1a9f/view?usp=sharing

yeah, well if that wasn't the case I wouldn't have been dog-fighting against him for 10 or so minutes only to get low on fuel and have him finally gun me down... Yes I was out of R-73s I used them successfully on his buddies with great effect. Unfortunately my R-77s were no good either on him because I was too close for missiles and had to switch to guns. Also my AI wingmen were killed. Seemed to me like the MiG I was flying in was just wallowing around from being too slow, I thought this thing is supposed to be the contemporary to a F-18 Hornet in the AOA department?

to me it seems like alot of the planes in DCS loose energy / smash very very quickly... MiG-29 included because a F-5E flown by AI bested me when I didn't have any smash from maneuvering against him

This is going to be the most helpful post on here... I too have been experiencing this MiG-29 flinging back into the air on a hard or heavy landing. In my opinion this should not be happening as Soviet designers in particular designed this aircraft to be very durable and able to be operated from damaged airfields and roadways. I have looked long and hard to find a MiG-29 landing where clearly the pilot was not using the standard landing technique that everybody has read in the NATO GAF manual i'm sure. Anyways, without further adue meet MiG-29 pilot Anatoliy Kvochur... Here you see him land by deploying the drag chute in mid air, hitting all 3 wheels relatively at the same time. and i'm sure because of the wet runway condition executing maximum braking with no aerobrake technique utilization. Don't know what the disposition of the aircraft was after this landing but it appears the MiG designers made a rugged plane that could handle such a landing. Clearly as evidenced by this the landing behavior is not correct in DCS and should be made to reflect the reality more closely in parameters or not there is a margin of engineering safety and redundancy always.

some type of solution like this is what I would prefer too, that way I can set the AB to the physical detent of my warthog HOTAS and then from AB to idle would automatically be set as a linear axis.