Dino Might

This is one of my favorite servers. Even with AIM-9P5 and R-60M, I still end up fighting with guns a lot. Had a sortie the other night where I scored two guns kills after running out of missiles, with last kill having only 200 lbs fuel remaining total. Had to land at Maykop and (I like to think) get into a pistol duel with the Mi-8 pilot that had landed there. I've been killed by MiGs with guns countless times. It's so much fun weaving through the valleys seeing rounds hitting the hillsides as you scissor back and forth, perspiring, just hoping that a friendly F-5 will drop out of the clouds to save you. The AWACS support is nice, but not game-breaking. You can still sneak up on people well enough. The winter terrain is fantastic. I love the environment. And the distance to bullseye is great - not too short, not too long. I only wish there were more MiGs to fight. I've been trying out Red side, and I'm just not nearly as comfortable in the MiG-21 with it's lack of visibility out of the cockpit.

Check whether these were destruction kills or mobility/firepower kills (incapacitated). It is difficult to destroy a tank with the GAU-8, even the old T-55s, but the ability to incapacitate it is fairly good. A lot of those "kills" were probably ruled as such by crews abandoning the vehicle after tracks and optics were destroyed, or turret systems were disabled.

Make sure you have a zoom view axis assigned, and use that. I find that I can spot and identify what type of ground unit I am fighting outside of its engagement range, except for long range SAMs. For SA-8s and IR SAMs, the zoom view is generally enough to spot them. The way zoom view works is slightly unrealistic, but mimics the use of binoculars, which A-10A pilots did use in operation. Also, make sure to orbit the target area long enough to get different viewing angles on hard to identify targets. Learn the silhouette of an SA-8 vs SA-9 and Shilka. Beyond doing that, you need a TGP with the C model. ---- Against tanks, you will have a tough time killing them with the gun. You need to attack rear quarter and above to hit where their armor is weakest. Even then, it will take a lot of rounds (~200 minimum). I recommend using GBUs, LGBs, or Mavericks on the tanks. Gun is great vs Shilkas. Those are very weak skinned; however, break-off before you hit slant range of 1.3-1.4 miles. They will gun you down easily if you get too close. You only need a few dozen hits on the Shilka to knock it out, so shoot from range and bracket the Shilka between the HE and the API CCIP dots. Gun is also good vs SAMs, but you need to be very careful about your engagement. Either terrain mask and pop-up attack, or get another aircraft in the area to distract them. Once the Osa or Strela is looking at the other aircraft (see their missile doors rotating to align with the friendly), then run in and gun them down quickly. Keep your airspeed high and dump countermeasures on egress, or if they end up firing on you when you are running in. If they turn and fire on you before you can shoot, break off and get behind a hill ASAP. You can also hit SA-3 track/search radars by staying very low (<100 ft AGL) with Mavericks. SA-6s will kill you all the time, everywhere. Avoid them, unless you can perform a pop-up attack on the SA-6 radar. ---- Lastly, if you like the A-10A and can afford it, get the A-10C. It's a whole new world with the TGP and CDU. You will LOVE it!

When joining another server and jettisoning pylons, I am kicked. Definitely a bug.

Here's another random thing I saw while testing - I can see bullet holes on the outside of the cockpit, but not from the inside. Not sure why...

Not sure if this is widespread or just a local problem for me. When I am hosting a multiplayer server and jettison all pylons, the other players in my server are kicked. Will throw up a video shortly to show this going on. It is repeatable (have done it 3 times now to confirm that this is the cause). I_ci1KdhPkU Unfortunately I didn't have the chat up for checking right when it happened, but was on TS with them and they let me know right when they got disco'd. We did this three times in a row and this happened each time.

Great investigation, report, and video. Off topic: Who are the virtual aerobatic teams that fly the F5, and are any looking to bring on board newbies? I've been wanting to start trying to fly formation with people and only dipped a toe in the VA servers. F5 is my favorite module, and I'd love to get into this, but would need some serious practice/training. Back on topic: So, is this something that can be currently fixed by each player by modifying game files? I'm guessing it will break integrity check, so we're up a creek unless ED puts an official fix in place, right?

I'm also interested in the A2G capabilities. Just did some testing with F5, and the HEAT rockets can kill a tank if you get a bunch of direct hits. Bombs are almost worthless because they require direct hits to do appreciable damage. CBU-52s are a complete waste of time. M117s had some splash (not significant enough to matter) It looks like rockets and guns will be the weapon of choice for Blue side for all ground units. Not sure anything could be done to make bombs worth it. I'll probably play around with some MiG21 A/G ordnance this weekend, but probably the same deal - bombs pointless, rockets best to use.

Those R60M and R13M numbers are atrocious. Maybe I wasn't having "the R60M bug," but rather, I just wasn't in the spitting distance required to actually get tone. Are missiles in Nevada behaving the same way? I'm sure model and specs are the same, but is there anything in the 2.0 architecture that could alleviate the issues? I can't imagine those values reflect reality relative to the P5.

Thanks for running these tests. I appreciate the perspective from both sides. I'm really hoping the MiG doesn't end up with bugged missiles that won't work. I had plenty of problems with the R60Ms on the Tiger v Fishbed server a few weeks back, and that's just flat out frustrating. What's the performance of the R13M1 vs. the R13M? I'll see if I can get some bombing tests done with the F5 this weekend. Will try both standard and drag versions vs. T55s and T72s. I haven't even touched the cluster munitions, but I assume they're like the SU-25T dispensers (totally useless)? If I have time, I'll give those a run as well.

I think we're both looking at different versions of what we perceive to be "The" proposed setup. I think with 2 missiles per plane restriction, it would be too much to restrict R3R. I, personally, wanted rear-aspect only or guns only (so no P-5 either). But, with only two missiles per plane, the advantage from the R3R is dramatically countered, because carrying those prevents the MiGs from carrying IR missiles (unless you go 1 and 1 on non-symmetric rail loads). I think if R3R is restricted, then MiGs should get to carry more than 2 missiles. The R-60M and R13M1 are (even together) not quite as good as the P-5 (though R13M1 should outrange it), so make up for that with more missiles. I understand that under optimal conditions the P-5 has good range, but under optimal conditions, the R3R has a longer range. As for who can actually achieve guidance lock faster and make a good shot, I don't know. I suspect I'd be better doing that with the F-5 and some others would be better doing it with the MiG. For numbers on ranges, I'm pulling from past discussions like this one, with a limited amount of personal experience: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138276

That last tacview run on the 1st tank showed very few ricochets. I'm wondering if this behavior is considered in the game and if that last 150 or so hits did more damage than the first runs with significant numbers of ricochets. Anyone want to test the low vs high dive angle and look at number of rounds per kill differentiated by subjective accounting of number of ricochets?

Mav, Please let me make clear that I really appreciate you guys hosting this, whatever ruleset/aircraft/map/server we use. These are awesome events, and it's a lot of work to organize these sorts of things. Please don't take any of our discussion as criticism of you or your crew. We'll bicker and banter a bit, but I hope that I speak for all of us when I say we are definitely excited for this, and we're glad you're putting it on. Based on how the R27R and R27T have been acting lately, I wouldn't call them BVR missiles either :cry: (unless it stands for Brick Visual Range missile)

I hear you, and I trust your experience in the MiG over mine - I haven't mastered it yet, so I don't disagree with any points you are making, except for the maneuverability argument. The F5 is not inherently more maneuverable than the MiG. It may win in instantaneous turn and low speed scissors, but that's it. The MiG can out-climb, out-accelerate, and hold a faster sustained turn. Again, I'm not trying to make this into some big thing - the performance is very close, just like the missile capabilities are very close (radar or not). Just quit pretending like the MiGs have nothing going for them, including 6 missiles per aircraft instead of 2. I think the MiGs have an advantage in a head to head when the aircraft know where each other are. The F-5s SA advantage is mitigated with imposters, but that's something that's going to be put in - I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with whatever adjustments they want to make for either side. I'd just be happy to fly in this thing. But I do think it's fair to talk about our ideas on the balance of such a scenario. As stated, I am fine with no restrictions, and the better pilots will win, regardless of the ruleset, which is why any team that gets me will get a handicap. I'm cool with whatever, but I would prefer rear-aspect missiles and guns only, or just guns only. To me, it makes the fight more interesting, but for all of you complaining about realism, I guess mass F-5 vs MiG-21 battles in the desert with imposters is the height of realism. Okay... And Mav, please put me on the F-5 team if I haven't outstayed my welcome. I'm not trying to start anything, just responding to your question earlier and continuing the convo with people who are so inclined. I'll shut up whenever. Application: Dino Might F-5 Lone wolf USA

Sorry, I don't check Facebook often. Not trying to ignore you. Unless 2.0 works differently, all MiGs need to do is roll over to see just about everything below them. Try it in 1.5, works well enough last time I checked. 5km out ranges the p5, and that's against a maneuvering target. It's more when head on. You don't need every missile to hit, but if 12 or so MiGs get a lock and fire near Rmax, chances are one or more will hit. SA in the F5 is good, but not great. I still don't get launch warnings signaling correctly. Then the MiGs just burn home to SAM safety and do it again. Not saying it's easy to coordinate something like that, but you agree the radar missiles are an advantage, and I don't see the F5 having anything the MiG has once WVR, other than roll rate, while the MiG has climb and sustained turn advantage. MiGs also have better a2g weapon plus the ccip feature (not supposed to have) as well as the proposed imposter settings essentially mitigating the F5 SA advantage. These are all relatively minor advantages, though, so it's a close matchup, and ultimately pilot skill will matter way more than any of these factors, so I expect to get killed early on if I make the roster.

If we could limit to rear aspect only missiles, that could be really fun, too. With the radar missiles, MiGs have a major advantage. What's to stop them from just Salvo firing R3Rs and RTB all match? F5s will have trouble enough with the silks when engaging ground targets.

I'll admit to having this loaded up for a few weeks now and have only completed the first two missions, but I really like it. I jump on this whenever I want to fly solo. I learned TACAN from the fam flight, and now I am trying to learn how to beat the AI in a guns only dogfight (mission 3). Kicking my butt all over the place. Definitely high quality, and I love all the radio voiceovers. Well scripted and produced. Two thumbs up.

I really want guns only. I think it would be a more fair fight to fly and a more interesting fight to spectate. Also, are lone wolves going to be reserves? Just wondering if I should clear my schedule yet. Lastly, I think it would be great if there were a downloadable mission replay and tacview file after the fact - if your server could capture them then post to this thread or somewhere else accessible for us to download and replay. It might make for some cool promo videos in the future.

F-5 is still my favorite DCS module. It's my go-to when I'm bored and don't really have any plans in mind. I enjoy every aspect of flying it. Take-off and landing are particularly smooth, and I have a better feel for it than with any other jet. I like the taxi handling characteristics - it's great fun to have a go-cart race around an airbase with a few of them. I really like the cockpit layout, too. The only thing I wish for is a confirmation that the gun dispersion is modeled correctly. I have a heck of a time putting enough rounds on target, and it looks like the cannons are spewing shells out in the 20 mil deviation range. I may be incorrect, here, but that MiG-21 cannon is far superior and really nice to shoot by comparison.

Dino Might USA - lone wolf F-5E

I forgot the most important RIO callout. "They must be close. I'm getting a hard on." - used for lost radar track, but last known position within 30 miles. I'm now going to watch Top Gun again (for the 500+th time). But this time, I'm going to take some notes for what voice commands I'm going to want to use.

So, who else is going to get voice attack for this and say, "Goose," to bring up the main radial. I am gaining a scenario, "Goose, clean 'em and fry 'em" = engage near bandit with sparrow.

I'm wondering if, at least for the testing rounds, we could have no restriction on team choice - freely switch sides at any time without mods needing to do it. I have been playing red the past few rounds, so wanted to fly some blue side for F5 goodness. But it is quite dull when it is 20-2 in favor. My other idea is to PLEASE give red side F5s - use the black aggressor skin. I feel like plane choice is one of the more significant factors. Giving red the Mirage was a good choice, and I'd almost rather take it away from blue side (one, to make it easier to know which ones are hostile when I have no IFF, and two, entice more people to join red).

Been waiting on the Gunfighter since I heard about it last year. Can't wait to eventually be building a pit around it and some Slaw pedals. *drool*

Necro thread question: "Viggen Release Day" reference for announcing winners means when Viggen is out of early access? Just want to make sure I don't need to check my spam folder to confirm that I will be the lucky 1 in 1000000 lotto winner and get my name on a plane :megalol: I can no longer put LT on it, though...because now I'm a hinge. :music_whistling: