Gman109

Lazy Russian Blue cat has decided to stop waiting, and go back to bed.

Good advice too.

Keep trying Whiteside, you should be able to get one of those credit cards at least to unlock the restrictions - I had to do the same, every time I've ordered from Virpil in fact, same bat time, same bat channel. Never had an issue with an order, it's just dumb credit card company stuff. That said, should you be unable to get an order through, and if you're really desperate to get a T50, I've had 3, and have 2 up and running right now. One of which I've barely, barely used, mainly just got it set up and in the mounts (you'll need mounts, not sure if you plan on running a throttle or what your plans are there, looks like you have a WH right now which is good, as the Virpil mounts will fit that throttle). Anyhow, if you're really serious, I'd consider parting with that one of mine, plus the mounts should you want them (and you really do need them, and they're cheap), and not worry about the extra $50. The only catch is I'm in Canada, but sending things such as this as gifts has never been an issue with customs for me in the past (I ran a firearms/training company until recently and moved millions of rounds of ammunition and tens of thousands of firearms up and down across the border so I'm speaking from experience). I suppose that's if you're in Windsor California, and not Windsor Ontario Canada, hard to tell from your profile. Anyway, PM me if you're interested in talking more, be happy to help, the more players that get a chance to experience the T50 the better, I'm SO in love with this stick and mounting system Virpil has come up with, I never thought after 20+ years of being a hardcore desktop unit player (having my arm planted on the desk surface and my stick very much ahead/deep and playing that way forever), that I'd be able to transition to this manner of running a hotas so quickly and easily. I've posted a couple vids (have more coming) of my hotas collection and experience, specifically with the T50 and VKB Gunfighter 2 compared to the WH, Cougar, and CH stuff. Can't endorse the T50 and Virpil's customer service and tech help enough, had help from them within 2 hours of asking and saved me a ton of time with some excellent and accurate advice (my own stupidity which they fixed in about 2 seconds).

Ditto, I have a pair from a couple different makers, tried out different ones for both the Vive and Rift, all have worked really well. As an aside, the pair of Rift lens inserts I have from VR Lens Lab work perfectly in the Samsung Odyssey as well, fit really well.

IMO either get a 2k (not really 2k, but 1440p/whatever) Asus/ACER/AOC Gsync 144hz+ 27" monitor. That or wait for the 4k 120-144hz Gsync from the same. If cost is no object at least, as they will be very expensive, but with amazing specs and stats for an LCD monitor, if you Google them, you'll see why. That said, any 27 to 40+inch 2k/4k will suffice, however having a high hz rate, particularly 100+, makes a HUGE difference for gaming, probably THE biggest difference for an LCD's performance IMO. Gsync can be useful as well, but having 100 to 165hz capability is more important, and I base this off having 4 Gsync gaming LCDs, various Asus, Acer, and AOC variants we've tried over the last few years for all 4 PC gaming stations in our home. If you want a large size, the 34" Asus/Acer Gsync 100hz 1440p IPS monitors can't be beat, I found our last Acer model for $700 used, and they are around if you look. Again, there are many new LCDs coming out, just do your research and decide what best fits your budget and size requirements, then narrow it down from there, and ask more questions here based on that. Good luck!

^^ Sorry for the lack of clarity, plus my own misunderstanding of the actual controllers used. After reading into it some more, Sokol's info is all correct so far as I can tell. The effect is the bottom line though IMO though, and both VKB/Virpil sticks have fare more accurate resolution than any past higher end sticks, and this can be proved by using the various joystick testers IMO as well, where much more accurate test/etc can be done/drawn with the newer sticks.

IMO they are the best option for TrackIR. I got my TrackIR 5 with the famous "frozen in shipping" batch, where the plastic was so brittle that the slightest touch would break the 3 light clip at various points. This was the explanation given to me by Natural Point, that a certain shipment was frozen at high altitude in shipping - don't shoot the messenger on the validiity of this happening, and I'm far from the only one given this accounting of events - and after having glued/taped mine umpteen times, I just went with the DelanClip. DelanClip has been bullet proof, recommended it many times, and not a single complaint from any of those folks regarding it.

After 4 Warthogs, 2 Cougars in this decade, and many in the previous one, many CH/Saitek units, I've settled on the VKB Gunfighter Mk2RevB and the Virpil T50 as my primary stikcs. I've had a couple T50s, and have 3 various Gunfighter bases from the first Mk1 through to what I'm using now. It's 5/6 and pick em with the Gunfighter/T50. There are small differences with each, mainly being that the VKB can be used as a desktop stick, and the T50 not so much, not at least until we bet the WarBrd later in June some time. The analogue ministick and dry clutches are the biggest differences. Also, you can make the Gunfighter much lighter than you can the T50, as in lighter than the CH Fighterstick by about a factor of 2. IE 2 times lighter. The T50 with the lightest springs and stock cam (best one until the space cam is available), isn't nearly as light as the Gunfighter with the softest springs it comes with. Still the T50 in the light config is still excellent, far lighter than the Warthog is IMO. The precision that both 32bit VKB/Virpil sticks give is very noticeable over the Warthog/Saitek/CH IMO. As mentioned in the threat, Viripl will always take your order, and now with the new building and process that brings, it should eventually result in faster fill times. All 3 of my Virpil orders fit the timeline I was told, 14 biz days to build/test, and 5 to 14 ish to ship/arrive. I had most under a calendar month of waiting, under 30 days. When VKb DOES have stuff in stock, it comes really, really fast for me. I'm in Canada, ordered on a late Wednesday night, they filled it Thursday, it arrived Tuesday morning that next week. So, like the Thursday, Friday, Monday...3 biz days, as the next/Tuesday doesn't count IMO as it came before 10AM. Unreal, absolutely unreal speed from DHL, and it was track-able all the way. Again though, this is only WHEN VKB has stock, which, unfortunately, isn't very often right now. I hope that changes with their new operations too. Any questions, PM me, I've put up a couple vids here, and am in the process of doing more, if anyone wants close up vids of either stick compared to WH/Cougar/CH/Saitek, and close up stuff on particular motions/etc of the VKB/Virpil Sticks, let me know, be happy to accommodate.

Great job VictorUS - the great thing about VKB is that it's a company where if you ask, you shall receive. Every single issue, even piddly stuff I found on their early website which was confusing and needed attention, VKB has jumped on it and fixed it. Very rapid solutions to every question I've had going back a few years since I got my first set of MK3 pedals. Now this complaint/post about the documentation/ect - less than a week, and VictorUS has created a great manual for us English speakers. Spasiba VictorUS, fantastic job on the manual/docs. http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Documentations/controller_2_10_En.pdf

Zhukov, to answer your question, yes. I have a 34" Gsync Asus 100hz LCD, plus I sit pretty far back in VR as well. As I said, having a DX Racer chair - if you don't have one, you won't understand - the armrest are VERY far outboard, which, makes me have to mount the STICK very far outboard. This speaks to USSR Rik's point - agree Rik, salute to you, it is personal pref, all the way, and that's what I wanted to make clear in both my video and posts (and future videos and post). Thank you, very reasonable post Rik. Streakeagle - VERY cool, love to see some pics of that F4 Phantom stick if you're able to. F4 is one of my favorite fighters, fell in love after reading Mark Berent's 5 book series on the Vietnam war and his F100/F4 flying in it. Fantastic, great post Streak, really interesting info. Regarding the dry clutches on the VKB Gunfighter. Again, personal pref, but I have mine completely spun out as to not provide ANY friction at all. And IMO unless you're a helicopter (dedicated) sim pilot, who wants to be able to push his cyclic ahead and have it "stick" in place (you can use software/sim control in DCS to do this somewhat IIRC), I would avoid using the dry clutch adjustments in any positive settings (ie putting friction on) all together. Just my opinion. Also, regarding the TM Warthog stick - I agree, that and the Cougar stick (have a couple still, one modded base as well that is FANtastic), are arguably the best sticks made still. The metal stick/buttons (most of them), are great, and there is a strong argument that getting a Gunfighter or Virpil base, getting the adapter (in VKB's case), and running the metal TM stick, as "the" way to go as well. I'm going to run my WH stick in my Gunfighter Mk1 "base only" unit I snapped up off of Ebay this way. Looking forward to that too once they get stock back in for the adapters too. If (and when, fingers cross), Virpil and/or VKB make metal sticks modeled on their existing sticks...heh, that'll be a great day, I'll do the happy dance with that news.

Do you mean a plate in order to use it on a desktop? Sorry Mojo, doesn't exist anymore. One of their older pics out there (it's gone now thanks to me bringing it up, haha), they showed an early T50 base variant that was on a desktop plate. It was apparently just a prototype, and they decided - rightfully so - that the T50 base + stick is just too high to use as a desktop unit. And it is. So, it's either mount it in a custom cockpit, or use their desk clamp drop mounts. For now. There is a new base, called the WarBrd coming out, which will use the T50 stick and a much shorter/lower base, designed to be a desktop unit. You'll have to wait for that if you want to use a T50 stick on your desktop, that or grow to be about 8 feet tall for the current unit, either will work... Heh, found a link in Google to the old desktop plate for the T50 - again they don't make this, as it turned out to be way too high for desktop use (I tried with mine on my desktop, it IS way too high to be used IMO). Third picture down. Again, the WarBrd will be out very shortly, just wait for that, and run that on desktop, that's what I'm going to do. Pic of WarBrd below as well. The WarBrd base looks about 1/2 the height of the current Mongoose T50 unit, which will = good times for desktop use. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjD1YL_4PnaAhVl8IMKHUbZDrIQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.eagle.ru%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D180448&psig=AOvVaw0zh3_3aTMkMf4rp6EBN2vY&ust=1525994053906307 https://virpil-controls.by/images/stories/virtuemart/product/delta_FS.png

This and this. You aren't able to see behind your aircraft nearly as fast or as easily as TrackIR pilots can, so if you do PvP online you'll be at an absolute disadvantage. One of the problems is PC VR units don't simulate peripheral vision, at all. In a real jet, you don't need to look completely dead 6 to "see" dead 6, as you're peripheral vision will let you see right behind your aircraft when your head is about about 4 or 8 oclock typically. No can do in VR though, you need to be looking very close to "6 oclock" to actually "see" 6 oclock right now. Boo hiss. One of the major down sides of VR IMO (there are others).

It is a shame, however they've been making moves so far as larger facilities and putting it all under one roof - as has Virpil, Virpil has a big new sign on a nice new building. It's my hope that this has a positive effect on stock issues, as well as a whole pile of other things, like innovation, QC (under one roof is great for this), and so forth. I mentioned in the video that my latest MK2RevB Gunfighter I happened upon just by fluke, doing my common check for parts in stock (looking for a MFG stick for my Mk1 base unit only I found cheap and new online, as well as a TM adapter for same), and snapped it up instantly, it was the last one as they went to "red sad face" out of stock after I put the order through, boom, that fast. I saw on their forums that they've wiped the current backlog of those who have been sitting in backorder, so hopefully this is good news, and that VKB will soon be pushing out more product. VKB's products are truly great, their Mk3 pedals are what I started with so far as "custom" sim products go, and they as well as their 3 sticks and Mk4 pedals have been bullet proof, I'm very happy with their products. Very happy in fact is putting it too mildly, I'm very enthusiastic about VKB and Virpil's products, and will be purchasing any and all new products they put out.

As I said, you still have to PARTIALLY disassemble the Gunfighter to get at this adjustment - you have to remove 5 screws and the ring (and the stick itself come to think of it) to access the dry clutches. It's still easier and faster to adjust the T50 tension screws, that's what my point was, and still is, as it's accurate. To simply say it's external is to imply that you can directly adjust the clutches on the Gunfighter by accessing them with no extra work like the T50 - you can't, again, it takes 5 screws to be removed, the plate removed, then you can get at them. While easier than previous models, it's still technically internal IMO if you have to remove anything at all to get at the clutch adjustment screws, which you do. You also need to reinstall the stick while the ring/boot is off, to test the clutch settings, then remove it again when finished/satisfied, reinstall the boot, ring, screws, then stick again in reverse order. much more work compared to the T50's fine tune/tension adjustments which just need a long/thin flat screwdriver (and again, the T50 adjustments don't provide what the clutches can on the VKB in terms of locking position for helo/etc pilots). Semantics I realize, but I want to be clear regarding function, so as not to receive negative feedback from anyone interested in either stick - both are excellent and have their own particular positive points (still can't find any serious negatives other than cost, hah), however simmers in this price range tend to be very interested in the details, and I wish to be as clear and as accurate as possible. The more questions and friendly debate on this subject, the better, the feedback I like as well as opposing viewpoints and discussion regarding features and personal prefs. Sim hardware is a very important subject matter for this and other online sims, IMO the next most important subject after the sim software itself, and possibly GPU/VR/LCD performance.

The cam is what is responsible for the increasing resistance and tension, regarding the distance the stick moves from the center. The springs give a pretty even representation of their resistance/strength evenly throughout stick motion. I'm using the stock cam with the soft center and progressive resistance as it's the best option, for right NOW. There is a new cam, their "space" cam, which will have the best of both worlds IMO, a soft center, with no increasing progression, an even amound of progress from center to max deflection on the stick motion. Perfect. This combined with the soft spring will = perfection IMO. Right now, with the stock center bump cam and soft spring, the feeling the T50 stick gives is lighter than the TM Warthog, but heavier than the CH Products or Saitek sticks. It's an excellent feel right now IMO, not so light that the stick will give spurious inputs, but not so heavy that it's a chore to move, like say the old Thrusmaster F22 type sticks. Right now, the stock cam with light spring = a great combo for the T50 and the new coming cam will be perfect IMO.

It may be, as I said in the OP and video, it was just a test run, using my iPad to both film and upload, I have a Sony A7R mirrorless, Rode mic/audio, tripods/clamps, and some lighting gear on the way, it all shipped yesterday so I should have it Friday, and I'll be doing more proper videos in the near future on the 30+ pieces of HOTAS/Rudder hardware I have (all the newest pedals/sticks in addition to examples of all the past gear). Ya, I missed mentioning the clutches and dampening adjustments on both sticks. The tension adjustments on the T50 can be made from the top of the stick with a long flat screwdriver, really simple to do. The adjustments give some fine tuning capability in between the various springs you can swap out, best way I can describe it. There are holes in the top plate of the T50 unit so you don't have to peel the unit apart in order to make these adjustments, that's a bonus compared to the VKB stick. That said - The VKB Gunfighter's clutches allow finer adjustment in felt tension on the stick itself as well, however they have more capability built in, as for example for say helo sim pilots, you can adjust the clutch for the forward/back cyclic motion to "lock" the stick in place and have it stay in place from wherever you've moved it. IE if you push ahead a certain amount of forward cyclic/front stick in a helo sim, you can let go of the stick and it'll stay there, IF you adjust the dry clutch to have the correct amount of adjustment to do so. The only downside is you have to partially disassemble the Gunfighter base to access the dry clutch adjustment, so it's best to test your settings and get them 'just so" prior to re assembling the base when adjust the dry clutches. They work really well, smart addition from VKB IMO. I disagree. It's obviously user pref, but even with sidestick on the right hand side, leaving the stick at straight ahead isn't nearly as comfortable as having 15 or so degrees clockwise twist locked down. If your post is accurate, then you shouldn't need any counter clockwise from the center then either for user preference, right? You said "you should rotate it at some angle" for the center...should right side stick users not be able to rotate it clockwise for the same reason? The Gunfighter CAN be used at straight ahead from the right both on desktop and in a mount - I've tried it with 2 Gunfighters from both desktop and in desktop clamp/mounts - it'd just be nice to be able to adjust the angle clockwise as you can with the T50. I'm far from the only one who prefers this, most of the videos and pictures I've seen of the T50 in the mount and being used as right side sidestick, those users have it twisted clockwise a bit as well. The Gunfighter would benefit from the same capability when mounted as right sidestick too. Most importantly, the further out your sidestick is to the right, the more clockwise twist is of benefit. If you have your stick on the right side of the desktop, then no twist is fine, I've used every HOTAS made from the right side of the desktop, and never needed any clockwise twist, and most sticks never had the option anyway, and it wasn't missed. In a desktop drop mount like the Virpil system or Monster however, in order to clear both the chair and the chair's armrest especially with the racer type chairs, then the stick becomes much further to the right. This is where having clockwise twist is very beneficial, at least for me and the 3 others here who fly online. If you don't have such a mount, you can't really tell until you try it - My T50 in the desktop clamp when mounted side stick on the right side, I use about a 15 degree clock wise twist, and it's perfect for me, having my arm on my DX racer chair arm rest mounted high as possible. It's still usable with the Gunfighter with no twist, but I'd really prefer it to be able to go both ways. Again, I understand that when the Gunfighter is placed/used as center stick, no or left/counter clockwise twist is preferred, but it just isn't the case for side stick on the right, particularly in the available desktop clamp/mounts available both from Virpil or Monster (I have both).

I won't go so far to say that the documentation, or lack there of, is unacceptable, but it's not a far throw away from being so VKB. Excellent, beyond excellent products and customer service VKB I've recommened both the pedals and stick(s) to all one and all, BUT, it's a 1/x, complete inverse, when it comes to your manuals, how to's, etc. This issue needs to be addressed and remedied, especially with your expanded operations and what I hope is a TON more sales and customers out there, creating a larger VKB and higher end user community I want to be a part of.

Ok thanks Zhukov, that’s what I thought. It’s really not a major issue, only place it would affect users are those mounting it on a Virpil like desk mount (there are other makers of these type of clamps) and using that as a side stick on their far right. Even then, 12 o’clock would be fine. Gunfighter is a fantastic stick, I wouldn’t have bought 3 and plan on keeping them all otherwise.

Good to point this out Sokol, this is part of the reason why I want to keep doing these (and improving) videos on all the current hardware. One of the issues - which has been being greatly improved as of late - is language/translation issues. That set screw on that page you linked is the correct screw for changing the alignment and position of the stick. It only moves 15 degrees now - you can check with VKB(I will be doing so myself), but IRRC and so far as I can see today, all the docs available for download on their website, show only 15 degrees of change allowable, and only in the counter clockwise position. I've tried the MCG Pro stick I have on both MK2 bases I have, and it's the same deal - only one direction (counter clock) and only 15 degrees. I'm going to contact VKB about this, but I'm pretty sure that 15 degrees and only counter clockwise is correct, again, I just tried it on my stick, and that's all it'd move. Good catch though, I'll look into it some more like I said, I want to be putting accurate info out there.

Thank you Seb, that really means a lot. I've got a great Sony A7R, Rode audio equipment, and some lighting stuff ordered, and once we're back to our summer home I'll be doing a lot more hardware/sim/hotas videos, properly, on a work bench with proper video/audio/lighting. Once the Virpil WarBrd is out as well as the VKB throttle and Viripl's throttle, I'll do a more in depth review, break down the gimbals, etc. Pedals too, we have most of the custom peds out there, except the Bauer, but I'll see if he'll make me a set despite being very busy with his new gig at Viripl (yay!). Thanks for the tip as well, one of those things on the tip of your tongue, analog mini stick, hah. It truly works great with the VKB stick, I hope Virpil in the future will do something similar. Both sticks are fantastic, using them daily is truly a pleasure right now, I've gotten used to the "far from desk" sitting position with the Virpil desk mounts, especially when using VR in DCS, it's a great position for a "realism" feel I've found.

Sure of course - Tildeer is as follows: VKB/Virpil sticks are both fantastic, and if $ is no object absolutely worth moving up to from either CH, TM, or Saitek/etc HOTAS sticks. The sticks both have little quirks and differences, but overall are really good, with the base/gimbals being the true story of the show. Vastly improved quality and longevity (to be expected) over the TM Warthog. VKB Gunfighter with the lightest spring = lighter motion than even the CH products stick, with more precision and accuracy. Virpil T50 = the prefect blend of the TM Warthog and CH Fighter/Combatstick type of "feel" and motion. The T50 for now requires either a cockpit to mount it in or the use of the $50USD Virpil desk clamp/mounts, which are a ridiculous value. This of course requires a similar mount for the throttle, and both require one to sit further back from the desk than normal. IMO getting a keyboard tray that clamps to your desk, from which to run your kb/mouse off of while using these mounts, is necessary, unless between your HOTAS/Voice attack/etc you don't need to reach your kb/mouse. You CAN stretch for the kb/mouse on your desk, I just prefer not to. I'll rewatch the vid and post a bit more that I blathered on about, but this is the jist of it.

Did a trial video on the new VKB/Virpil sticks, comparing them to the TM and CH stick/options out there. More of a trial run, I'm going to get some better video, audio, and lighting equipment for recording, and do more thorough evals and breakdowns of all this great new gear us sim pilots are being given the option to buy and use. No edits/fancy lighting/audio, and only low res from my iPad. edit - Also, regarding the ability to lock the stick (rotating it from center for user pref/comfort), I realize that the direction that VKB uses for their sticks is more for users putting the stick in the center, as opposed to a right hand side position - users doing that would likely be ok and even prefer the direction that VKB allows you to move their stick (counter clockwise about 15 degrees), when either mounting the VKB stick in the middle of a cockpit, or putting it in the center of the desk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHGMo5SntuQ

I've had precisely the same issue, my 2nd T50 I received recently had this problem where it behaved crazily when plugged in. After getting advice within 2 hours from Virpil tech support, to gently pull the plug on the stick out longer, giving it some play, so I could really accurately seat the connector, I noticed something curious... Turns out that whoever tested my stick, had done the same, and returned the plug in the stick handle 180 degrees in the wrong direction, of course causing my insanity with the software/calibration issue. One quick turn, putting the plugs together without the stick on top of them, then feeding the connector/long wire gently back into the stick, then seating it on the base...boom, perfect. So, lesson learned which I would pass on to other new T50 customers, be very careful with your connector/plug seating, inspect it thoroughly before connecting the stick to the base (which I didn't do, 100% my bust and I'll wear it), and perhaps even do as I was instructed if you have any doubts, gently remove the plug on the stick, gently pull some wire out to give yourself some play/room, and seat the plug from the stick into the base connector this way, and THEN put it back into the stick, and then seat the stick on the base. This is by no means a "must", but if anyone has any issues with the stick as described in this thread, do it this way.

Great to hear that DCS will be taking on the F16. I hope we get a C model in a later block, but would be happy with anything from A to "z". Truly fantastic news. Other F16 sims IMO are too dated now, and I feel DCS will do a good job based on their other aircraft here. So many great possibilities with the Falcon, I also hope that maybe some of the later models sold to other countries with newer systems, conformal fuel tanks, etc, may be modelled by DCS. DCS truly is a sim/company that weekly, certainly monthly, comes out with news that puts a smile on my face. Can't ask for more than that. I interviewed Pete Bonnani back when he was working on Falcon 4.0, before and after it was released, and really learned a lot about the Falcon and the Falcon driver community from him. I hope DCS is able to get a resource similar to him to work with them on the F16 project. Bring on the Falcon. Great job Wags et al. We're watching, and we're impressed. Only news that'll make me happier, dance a jig happier, will be when that Friday news email hits my inbox, and the news that a new/updated Mig29 is happening. Oh...yeah...

Ditto, I'm on T50 number 2 right now, and after trying every combination, I feel this is by far the best combination. That said, they have a new "space" cam coming out, which will keep the soft center (it won't be a "no bump" like one of the cams included with the current T50 packages), but it will have a reduction in the progression of tension as you move to the outer areas of the stick sweeps in both directions. IE same perfect small center bump, but with a steady amount of tension (limited) from that center to max deflection. This will improve that which is already fantastic IMO. I compared the T50 with the current small bump cam available with the current light springs, to be reminiscent of the old Thrustmaster F22/F16TQS HOTAS blended together with a CH Fighterstick. Obviously with a vastly superior gimbal/buttons/etc/etc, however so far as how the stick motion feels, this is the best way I can describe it. 95% perfect for me, the new cam I'm certain will push this to 100%