Gman109

Extremely subjective subject, but here goes. I've been collecting HOTAS for 20+ years. When I ran combatsim.com (editor) I used to get them all sent to me for reviews and eval, but even prior to that I'd purchased the majority on my own, and still continue to do so. I have several dozen hotas in my collection, comprising the majority of the "higher end" units offered over the years. Pic below of my primary gaming PC and just a fraction of what I have (these are the ones I have mounting plates for my Virpil and Monster mounts, and regularly use in games I'm currently playing, CH, WH, Cougar, Virpil, and VKB Gunfighters). I'll do a very brief rundown on my opinion of the current offerings. I don't know much about the lower end stuff like the TM16000 etc, but I do know that it's a great bargain, as I have the TM TWC throttle that comes with one of the TM sets, and it's excellent for the $, better than the stand alone CH throttle for the money IMO. CH Products - I've been using CH since they had the original "sim" stick with a single button on top and a trigger. I friend I fly with in AH3 that I've known since 2002 worked for CH before moving to a larger gaming company. CH was sold in 2007, and their QC took a bit of a hit, but they've come back a bit from that now IMO. Take apart a circa 2010 or so Fighter stick and a 2007 or earlier one, and the care taken in assembly is evident. Still despite any of this blahblahblah, CH remains excellent, and an old favorite of mine. Until I could replicate the soft feeling of the Fighterstick x/y axis with the VKB Gunfighter on lightest springs/cams, the CH Fighterstick was my "go to" stick for AH3 and any online sim game that required constant rapid movement and combat. For the $ CH 3 unit hotas is still one to be seriously considered for DCS or any sim IMO. One negative is that after 1 year they won't send you parts such as new hats, switches, or sensors/pots, you have to source them elsewhere or just buy a new unit. Saitek - no, no and more no. I have a couple X65 which have held up mostly due to limited use, but the X55/56,52,45,36, have all had failures of one kind or another in not a ton of time being used. Just my experience, if you're going to spend over $200 USD on an X55 you should save a bit more and buy a complete CH hotas IMO. Thrustmaster - good availability on the Warthog, price isn't horrible if you get one on sale. Quality is iffy IMO, I have 4 WH and a couple Cougars - all but one WH stick suffered from the "sticktion" issue and required breaking down and cleaning/re greasing, and replacing the ring with an aftermarket one. A pita, due to the poor quality and design of the gimbal, but when it works, it works well enough IMO. The stick itself is great as it's mainly metal, as are most of the buttons on it, which is a rarity. The throttle is alright as well, a few $ and you can upgrade the analogue mini stick and make it much better too. The WH isn't a bad option so long as you know that you may eventually have to take action regarding the sticktion issue. You'll also need pedals, but that's another subject. VKB - excellent, but no throttle yet. I've had several Gunfighters, the first version along with 2 MK2revBs, and one of the new Kosomina sticks. Good stick, it's quality plastic, the gimbal is great, and with the springs provided you can make it as gentle as the CH sticks or much more firm if you desire. Availability is a pita, price is "you get what you pay for" sort of cost. Virpil - excellent stick options, as well as throttle. Current throttle is fantastic, no analogue ministick though, but a new unit coming out shortly fixes that (old ones are all sold now IRRC). The T50 is great, it too has a new model coming out with a better and simpler gimbal system. The Warbrd is excellent too, less costly, can sit on your desk or in a desk mount. Multiple stick options, WW2 type sticks, space sim sticks (with an analogue mini stick on it), and Russian fighter type sticks (CM2). Excellent support from Virpil in my experience, and lots of innovation and new things coming from them as well. Cost is again commensurate with the product, also like VKB a "get what you pay for" sort of price. I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but for DCS these are the common options right now. IMO with what the OP is currently running, if $ is a consideration find yourself a good CH setup for now. I constantly check all the used sources here in Canada every day, and pick off used like new hotas all the time. Several Cougars and CH setups just in 2019, I got a like new Fighterstick and Throttle for less than $40USD delivered off of kijiji.ca (pics to prove it too). That's my advice for what it's worth. If you have the means, Viripl is my recommendation for a stick/throttle, plus they have pedals coming too you can upgrade to. You can use the "Space" stick which has a twist function for rudders on the Warbrd base for now if you want to go that route too. https://imgur.com/mB3DOUU

My experience and opinion is very similar. Similar systems in terms of gaming performance for the most part, and I've had similar results with the Rift, Vive, Vive Pro, Odyssey, Odyssey+, Pimax5k, and now the Rift S. I find that the Rift S is pretty much the go to headset for DCS and pretty much every other game/sim right in our home of 4 PC gamers. I'm surprised to be typing this as based on the specs prior to release, I didn't think the Rift S would compete in DCS with the Odyssey+ or Pimax5k (pita HMD IMO). It does, and it's much simpler and more satisfying to use because of it. I'm eagerly awaiting the Reverb and Index, and I have daily battles with the missus over getting an Xtal to test out. For now though, I'd recommend the Rift S to any DCS or sim player, or any PC gamer for that matter. It's relatively inexpensive for what you get too, I got mine from the Microsoft Store in Canada with the student discount (I take one class distance learning at Stanford CS/AI lab, hahah), for $369 USD after tax and free shipping.

I got my Rift S Friday, and played DCS and other sims/cockpit games until about an hour ago, with about 5 hours sleep total. Fell into the Rift S hole... Other than the Xtal, I've run many of the VR HMDs out there. Several Rifts, Vives, Odyssey, Odyssey+s, a Vive Pro, and a Pimax 5k. I was very surprised to find that the Rift S was superior IMO to the Odyssey+. It's just a better experience and the graphics/screen is more clear, period. I tried every combination of PD/settings I've used over the years, and the Rift S in every case IMO was better than the Odyssey+. I find the experience a lot less of a PITA than the Pimax5k has been, and other than FOV, the Rift S is IMO in the running (or better in some cases) than my Pimax experience. Sniper175 was correct - the Rift S is better than the Odyssey+, something I absolutely did NOT expect. Odyssey+ both go up for sale on Monday, I'll either pick up another Rift S to fill that gap, or hopefully get a Reverb if they come out in the next week or two. Rift S is easily worth the $, and for new adopters, right now it isn't even in question IMO that the Rift S is the HMD to buy for DCS/sims. The sound is a negative, so I'm told - after years of gunfire and explosive entries/etc, my hearing is at best 50% of what it should be, so I'm a poor judge of this.

Agreed, but consider the astronomical cost (you can buy a 9900k/2080ti system, the best hotas out there, and a Rift S for less than what the Xtal costs), it's easy to forget about it. I've had the Rift, Vive, Vive Pro, Odyssey, Odyssey+, Pimax5k, and now the Rift S. IMO for the $ it's the Rift S. Even without the $ considered, I'd buy the Rift S. The Pimax5k has a great FOV, but so far as the graphics and their presentation, the Rift S IMO is in the running against it, easily. I was also very surprised that the Rift S experience, including graphics, was significantly better than the Odyssey+, of which I still am running 2 until I sell them this week. That's how much I'm liking the Rift S, and I was among those who thought Oculus' specs on the Rift S a few months back made it a joke and mainly for tiddly winks kids games. Not so. Oculus knows what they're doing. The Rift/S have the best VR drivers period, probably the best support in terms of available/easy to set up games, and IMO the best sim experience right now. Until we see the Reverb and the Index, the Rift S is the way to go for DCS or any cockpit sim right now.

Why is hell in the UK always "bloody"? I heard it was hot, bloody, not so much.

The major difference is in the eye padding or whatever. The "Pro" has a leather-ish higher end padding, while the retail/commercial has a cheaper regular thinner type deal. edit - hah, that's the 2nd time in a week I've posted the same info in the same minute as someone else...

Great job MD44, my niece is learning the F14 module right now and has found your guide invaluable, I find it very useful as well, well done.

I haven't run a Rift since the Vive Pro and Odyssey came out (sold all 3 of our Rifts for those). What software do you need to run for the Rift S now, do you still run the Oculus Tray Tool along with the other software? My memory is spotty on this, again, it's been a while.

I was going to mention that any of you in Canada, the Microsoft Store will give you 10% off the Rift S right now if you're currently a student. (I'm doing distance learning @ Stanford in their AI Lab/CS and didn't use my .edu email, just my Gmail one, and I qualified last year for the Odyssey+ student discount and they accepted my creds still for the Rift S). Just and FYI for any Canadians that are in school or want to sign up for online/school, that there is a small but helpful discount available for those who qualify. They offer express shipping for 10 dollars too, 1-2 biz days, mine gets here tomorrow and I ordered last night.

WinWing, thanks for keeping us up to date with your visits, can't wait to see your website once it's finished, and of course the stick and throttle as you move further along.

If anyone who has or has tried an Odyssey+ gets a Rift S in the next day or two, I'd love to hear your opinions while I wait for mine to show up later this week.

IMO the only thing an A8 will have in a fight starting from fairly neutral positions vs the current Allied fighters in DCS is to try and use its roll rate to suck the other fighter into a rolling scissors of some type. Using superior roll rate and the ability to rapidly decelerate using this will sometimes give the A8 one good opportunity for a shot. Miss that shot, and then you're very slow in a fighter than turns and accelerates in a much inferior manner - IMO.

Great, thanks for this Saburo. I was just going through my Osprey collection of military books (I have them all in pdf) and the 190 books in that series. I'll read through the above today, thanks again.

Doesn't the A8 have an even higher wing loading than the D9, along with a bit more weight when combat loaded? Based on other sims that have put in varying amounts of work into their FMs, the A8 is no "dogfighter", not in terms of being a good angles/rate/radius fighter, not IMO. The gun package is pretty great though, 4 MG151s with lots of ammunition, 500 rnds in the inboard wing guns and IIRC it's 280 in the outboard ones (they aren't the crappy MG FF guns that are in the A5/etc model either, but MG151 as well). That plus a very large 13mm nose MG loadout (can't remember the rounds with these) - fantastic guns package for busting bombers and larger fighter/bombers. Interesting points about the boost/c3 here - am I understanding correctly that the A8 standard fighter model had no boost or "war emergency power" analogue at all? So no magic "turbo" switch for an instant increase in power/acceleration/speed, not like the Mw50 or WEP in the Western fighters? Getting wrapped up into turn fights probably won't be a good idea with the DCS A8. Still, it'll be my favorite WW2 fighter in DCS until the P47 comes along someday...

TrackIR still has a large advantage over VR in that seeing directly behind your aircraft is made much easier. Other simulation games have addressed this by allowing a snapview that is independent of VR head movement/location, and will put the view immediately towards the rear out the back of the cockpit (as it's able to be depending on type/etc), with the VR head movement still registering as the snapview key/button is held down. I was told and had read in various posts that this is possible in DCS, but IMO it's not, at least I haven't been able to rotate my head while in snapview setup mode with VR engaged, and been able to save that view pointing where I like in the rear quarter or 6 oclock directly. I'm not sure if this is possible, but if it is, I'd really like to be able to do it. I do have a swivel chair, but with hotas/keyboard/mouse on Monster mounts, being able to spin about is nearly impossible, not to mention the cable is a pita when trying to spin in the chair with the HMD on as well. Even getting your head to 4 or 5 oclock isn't good enough, as VR HMDs current tech doesn't allow for your real life eyeballs to use peripheral vision as they do in a real cockpit/plane. If for some reason I'm too much of a view noob in DCS and this IS possible, I'd love it if someone would point out what I'm doing incorrectly.

Thanks for responding Nibbio, at least I know it's not just me not being able to figure this out. Really appreciate it, as I don't want to waste any more time on this if contrary to what I've read on the forum, it's NOT possible. I should link some of the posts I've read about this subject, or maybe I'll PM Skatezilla as he had posted once that this IS possible - I just don't understand how yet. And yes, you're correct, that was the game I was referring to. I truly wish DCS would allow a similar feature, it very much gives VR pilots an even playing field with TrackIR pilots in PvP, plus for single player, lets you look around behind yourself in flight much, much more comfortably. IMO without a swivel chair (and even then, it's cumbersome as all hell), you cannot look behind your aircraft in VR, again, due to not being able to use your eyes peripheral vision in VR as you can in reality.

I've been told by an ED/DCS staff person that snapviews work in VR. I've not been able to get one setup though, I'm not real familiar with making them work. What I'd like is to have a custom snapview I can bind to a HOTAS button, and be able to rotate the head view in the cockpit - not just move it "left right", but actually turn and rotate the head view, so I can get it pointed backwards, and thus be able to actually see wth is happening behind my aircraft while using VR, and then SAVE that spot to a snapview keybind/whatever, and be able to use it instantly while in flight to get my VR point of view pointed close to rearward.. Since in VR our peripheral vision hasn't been modelled by an HMD maker yet, we can't do what real pilots do, which is get the head to around 7/8 or 4/5 oclock, and let our eyes do the rest to see behind us. TrackIR we can set up goofy curves and easily do it, but not in VR, not yet. Thus, I want a snap view that I can hit/hold, and still have the VR tracking be working when pointed back in that snapview. If anyone can help me set this up, I'd appreciate it. I've messed with all the snapview KP/etc keys, and all it'll let me do is move my head left/right/up/down/etc, and not rotate, which is what I need. Plus how to save it and make it actually stick. TYVM in advanace. Sorry to be a DCS noob when it comes to views, but I'd always just stuck with TrackIR and now the VR, but I want to play more multiplayer VR, and not being able to see your 6 well really sucks in PvP and VR, and I want this "sorta" fix in the meantime to work. It works well in another online pvp prop sim I play, really well in fact, negates the TrackIR advantage completely for me.

Wow, well done. I really, really dig the size of the left arm/throttle arm rest. My personally I'd love to have this same setup, but have a keyboard in the center spot, and the stick on the right side. I realize using stick extensions pretty much limits you to center stick though, and it's really cool that way too. Nice work.

I'm not in the UK, but I' m in Canada, and ASUS RMA is effing BS here too. I built 3 new 9900k systems in Nov 2018 when they came out. The Asus z390 ROG motherboard I had in one of them died the 2nd night I had it, blue screen and then wouldn't post. Took a whole afternoon disassembling and testing every component to confirm it was the motherboard. Contacted Newegg, who said tough crap, and contact Asus support. I did that. Sent it back to ASUS Canada. I should also note that 2 of the SATA ports didn't work on the board out of the box, and I just used other ones instead as I only needed a couple for that build as I was using 970 1 TB drives in the m.2 slots. Anyhow, they contact me and tell me one of the pins in the CPU socket has a very slight bend. Just one, and anyway that's complete BS, as I had taken pics of that in case they tried this frequent trick, and emailed them pics of it right before I loaded it into the box. They still denied my warranty, even though it was faulty out of the box (sata ports), and died after 48 hours. They wouldn't even check to see what part of the board failed (I know it wasn't the socket, they could have tested that even IF the socket had a very slightly bent pin, or replaced the socket and then tested it, and seen it wasn't the socket that failed). I've bought SO much Asus stuff, tons of gaming ROG products, at least 10 of their ROG monitors alone, including 2 4k 144hz units recently, and more MB and other components than I can even compute. Never again. I've gone out of my way to avoid their GPUs, MBs, and now monitors, not because of their products, but because of their lack of honoring their warranty.

Hey Wags, are you still under the NDA, or has it been lifted for you (lots of reviews up on YT from tech reviewers). Inquiring minds wouldn't mind hearing your opinion of how the Rift S stacks up against other VR HMDs you've used in DCS, specifically the first Rift, but also the Odyssey you had used for a while, etc. I'd really like to know specifically what you think of the Rift S in DCS compared to the Odyssey/+.

Heh, looks like I'll be trying out the Rift S first. I'm going to bite the bullet and buy all of the new ones now I guess, and the Index won't be until later in summer, and the Reverb = who knows now.

MRTV's reviewer using 200% SS got 47FPS average in DCS using a 1080ti/8700k. That's without knowing other settings (in game/etc), but that's encouraging IMO, on a 1080ti and before ED/DCS's upcoming VR optimization. Sorry Naruto- posted same minute.

Working on lighting/setup for Virpil specific vids today, I'll see how those go before trying a hotas-wide roundup. I would point out that Virpil is my primary hotas by choice - and I have pretty much every option out there. While the Gunfighter/Kosomina are excellent, IMO the T50 and Warbrd along with the various stick and mounting options from Virpil are top of the pile for me, close as it may be. Virpil's customer service in my experience is also what every company should model themselves after. Mazex's video and posts do show that there is a bit of a lack of information particularly when it comes to videos showing the differences in Virpil bases and sticks, their operation and options, etc. I'm hoping we can all work together in terms of criticism and advice once I pop up a few test vids comparing the current T50 and Warbrd with the various sticks (including using the TM sticks in the Virpil bases) and extensions and whatnot.

I have every Virpil/VKB stick and base, several of some, so I'll try and put together a comparison video like you suggested. I have the extensions as well. I also have pretty much every major hotas made as well, again, several of some like the Cougar, Warthog, X65, etc. Pedals too, Slaw/VKB/MFG, etc. I should do a complete roundup in the next couple of weeks time permitting.

Witwas, IMO due to your PC hardware, I wouldn't even consider going with a Vive Pro or Odyssey+, much less the newer and higher res Reverb. Index, perhaps, but IMO the Rift S is probably your best option. With the new DCS VR improvements coming, your GPU will probably work well with the Rift S (even as is possibly). Since you were very specific you didn't want to outlay more $ for a 9700 or 9900k and 2080ti, I think you'll be best served by the Rift S so far as the new HMD go. Of course, based on the very limited info we all have... Probably the best advice any of us in DCS can take is to wait until the new HMD are actually out and tested by DCS players, as well as waiting for the DCS map/VR optimization to be released, if spending $ on a new HMD is a decision you can only make once and have to get right the first time.