Gman109

Great review Jabbers. You got a laugh from me on the unboxing, I completely agree, well done. You've motivated me to do my quick video review and comparison of the newer HOTASs which are available now (I collect all HOTAS out there), such as the new VKB and Virpil products - at least the ones that are available now, their throttles obviously will have to wait. I don't have the T16000 stick, as I tend to stick to buying and collecting the non-entry level Hotas out there, however I did pick up the TWCS Throttle when it first came out. The reason I did so was that there just isn't many stand alone throttle options out there. A few Euro/Chinese stand alone throttles pop up here and there, but for the most part it's just the CH Products USB throttle - which it and the gameport version have been around 20+ years, I swear my gameport version is over 20years in service now - as well as now this new TM TWCS unit. I got it new in box on sale for $75 USD (it was less than $100 Canadian to my door) from an Amazon sale. IMO it's as good, if not better than the good yet dated CH products throttle. I think the argument that it's at least "as good" is unassailable, for many of the reasons Jabbers mentioned in his video. So far as quality/QC, since CH Products was sold to a larger...and at least what feels like a less caring company just over 10 years ago (cough, since then, internals look like drunk kids working in what would resemble a sneaker manufacturing boiler room at 10cents an hour, did the wiring and asembly), beating CH in the QC department is certainly no great feat. However, just to be sure I took my TWCS apart, and everything seemed adequate/good in this department. Again, I can't comment on the stick, but Jabbers did a fine job in describing how it moves/feels, and the fact that it indeed DOES have Hall magnetic sensors as the higher end Warthog stick has, makes it a fantastic deal for the $. As Jabbers repeatedly said, he's recommended this HOTAS to many other players as the best entry level option for those getting into this simulator. I'm going to do so as well in the future, for DCS and any other online flight simulation out there, as the best entry level bang/$ available right now. +1 from me, based on my experience having used the throttle, and having a nephew and 2 nieces beat on it for the last 1/2 year or so, and I trust Jabbers review and video regarding his opinion on the stick side of this HOTAS. Many players out there may have an existing stick or another stick than the 16000 they prefer, and the TWCS throttle is an excellent, probably the best, current stand alone throttle option out there. Certainly for a sub $350-400 USD throttle, as the new Virpil and VKB throttles are expected to cost. Nice job Jabbers.

Thanks all - SkateZilla, thanks for that response, pretty much summed up what I wanted to know in a sentence. Still, a really interesting question to me, and the answers here mostly are what I kinda guessed at, which is a 7.5+ limit isn't going to have a massive negative effect on the Hornet's combat capability vs 9+g platforms.

Not so much a DCS Hornet question, but a Hornet question overall. I suppose with the accurate flight modeling DCS does it is applicable still with the upcoming module, especially in multiplayer PvP fights IMO. How much does the 7.5 max limit effect the overall combat capability of the Hornet family, when compared to other threat platforms like the SU27 family, Mig29 family, Chinese J10, and for gaming purposes PvP planes like the F15, future F16C, etc etc? I realize that with stores and weapons most platforms can't pull 9+gs anyway, however in a pretty clean a2a loadout of say tanks having been pickled off and just a couple/4 AAMs loaded, would a 7.5G limited Hornet be at a major disadvantage vs a 9+G capable 27/29/J10/whatever? How does being limited to 7.5G affect the Hornet family of fighters in terms of best rate/radius in turns anyway?

^^ Ditto, same as Thermal here. This is VERY subjective though, best thing you can do Hamburgle is test things out for yourself, but the above settings are a great place to begin that process. Some find a little bit of deadzone to be a great thing, some, like me, not so much.

Thank you from Canada, J11 is fantastic, can't wait for what you'll bring to DCS. SO many great options from the PRC Air Force/etc. J17, J10, and many others. Great to have you here!

My unit arrived today. Unable to set it up until tomorrow, but the missus signed for it this morning. Again, ordered on the 18th, order processed and sent on the 21st, it`s in my hands today, the 24th. That's incredible speed IMO, I've waited longer for domestic stuff in my own Province here. Thanks VKB, good job.

[quoteWhat would users recommend for springs/cams/shafts for controlling a helicopter? I'd like to have no center and the stick to remain where it is when I let go. I'm not really sure if that's possible, having a stick stay where you last place it other than center, for any stick. Maybe I'm wrong. However to answer your other question, IMO by FAR the lightest spring set is the best option for helos so far as constantly having the stick in a place other than center, and the "new" "space" cam, which has very non progressive lines (doesn't get harder as you move away from center), which also has a "no bump" center designed into it. There are pics on the Virpil site of the new cam, I've just seen them recently but can't remember where. That'd be what I'd do, new cam and softest spring. I'm using the stock cam and softest spring, and it's perfect for jet/prop and works really well for helo for me as well.

Ordered my 4th VKB product on the 17th at about 9pm my time, so pretty much on the 18th. MK2RevB Gunfighter MCG Pro desktop. I have the non-pro desktop Mk2 already, and picked up a Gunfighter MK1 base from Ebay recently very cheaply (160$ USD or so, new in the plastic still, woo). Also have a set of Mk3 rudder Tpeds I got when Jason from IL2 was working with VKB, he sent me a set which had been allocated for media/whatever, the last set in N.A. at that time - very kind, otherwise I'd had to have waited for months for the new Mk4s. Anyhow, I hadn't heard if my new stick had shipped on Friday, so I shot VKB/Aero an email/PM. Heard back in a few hours (excellent), and they explained due to the move this week I'd probably hear later on in the week my stick had shipped, and would get a tracking number then. Very fair, great comms. Got an email at 5am today, my shipment had left on the 21st, and has cleared through Cincinati and into Canada, and DHL called with the $ for import/taxes already. Should be here tomorrow or Wed the latest they said. EXTREMELY fast shipping into Canada from VKB on this order, literally a calender week, or 5-6 biz days from order to arrival. That's pretty incredible, probably just got fortunate with timing, but credit where it's due. Thanks VKB, great comms and everything else on this one. I'll be buying everything else (I buy all new HOTAS equipment anyway as I collect them and mech keyboards both).

Nice little solution. Probably works better as it's more direct, than just having a small fan like I'm using now. Hey Sagil, you make Youtube DCS videos, do you not? I swear I recognize you from touring around YT watching various creator's DCS content.

I’d consider moving up to 32gb of system ram. DCS gobbles a lot of mem right now.

No official date, but the 2 or 3 tech websites I trust, who really follow nVidia news (and were right about everything so far regarding the new GPU), all claim that a July/August release is pretty solid. This is based on a number of factors, from the memory purchases/allocations from nVidia, to info they get from those working on the "line" building the cards. Price is one thing I do wonder about - they've said it's likely to have a similar MSRP to the 1080 when it came out, but what's going to happen when all the crypto-tards start snapping up supplies. I'm hoping nVidia does direct sales limited to 1 or 2 cards (I always need 6 as we have 3 gaming stations in our home, all with SLI), in order to prevent market conditions erupting into the current and recent past nonsense.

I have both the Gunfighter (a Mk1, and a MK2Rev B coming in a week), and the T50 Mongoose. I also have a set of every other Hotas made, several Warthogs, Cougars, every Saitek model from the X36/x45 to the X65, etc. I collect them, that and mechanical keyboards, and have several dozen from other the years. IMO the VKB and Virpil sticks are the pinnacle of PC gaming sticks. Their gimbals are both excellent, however as others have stated, not without their quirks. Extreme care must be taken on the Virpil cam screws not to strip them (heating them with a blow dryer or better yet a soldering iron for a few minutes per screw is essential). Right out of the box the VKB stick needs to be disassembled somewhat in order to loosen the dry clutches from their factory hard setting. Both companies are excellent to deal with, they realize they are upstarts in a small market where information is passed at light speed, so negative reviews spread almost as quickly as the positive ones. Virpil has made some great recent strides with their new HQ and that should really improve both QA and speed/etc. VKB has been excellent for me as well, rapidly answering questions, etc. I was one of the early adopters of the first gen of the VKB pedals from Jason Williams before he left VKB. So far as the OP question, IMO there is really only one major issue that sepeartes the sticks for right now - desktop or desk clamp mount. That's the decision you must make, at least until the Virpil WarBRD comes out. Online WW2 games like Aces high it's an absolute MUST for me to have a desktop unit to plant my arm which I've done for 20 years now, so the T50 is out for that game. However, using VR in DCS I sit further back, and using the incredibly inexpensive yet high quality Virpil desktop clamp mounts is what I do with the T50. So, if you ask me, it's 5/6 and pick em, if you absolutely MUST have a desktop solution for your stick, VKB, for now at least, is probably your path. That said, if you want to use the Virpil mounts, you'll be very happy with the T50. There are differences as others have stated regarding hats/buttons depending on the model of each stick, but IMO both sticks and all their variants have sufficient and well placed hats/buttons. IMO the T50 you need to switch the factory installed spring to the lightest one, and either go with the little/no center bump or the cam with the center yet less progressive and increasing resistance. Either work well for me, but the light spring is an absolute MUST IMO. The Gunfighter with the standard factory cam/spring combo has been the best for me. You simply can't go wrong with either option.

Hah, great to hear, I'll be buying a set of those cams as well. This is what I've come to love about Virpil - more than any other PC hardware company I've bought from or even read about, they truly listen to their customers feedback, and then action that feedback. From website/store things I myself have commented to them about, to this new cam issue, and countless other things I've read about, Virpil listens to what their customers say, and then actually DO something about it. This is what will make truly exceoptional products approach perfection. The light spring kit is truly dialed in perfectly for me, a tiny bit of adjustment on the top screws of the unit, and it's by far the best feel of any of the dozens and dozens of sticks I've owned over the years. The best way I can describe it is a perfect blend between the CH Fightersticks and the TM Warthog sticks. No matter where I mount it, center or side stick position, it's the perfect amount of tension. I recommend everyone who gets a T50 to try the light spring kit, and leave the cam alone, try that set up first IMO. Changing the springs out is an easy task, the cams you have to heat the screws a bit to loosen the locktite, so it's a bit more of a task, but still relatively straightforward, it just takes more time due to the 4 screws needing heating up. I can do the spring swap in less than 10 minutes, and that's being extremely careful with the plugs and boards inside (easy to avoid harming them, they are mounted in great positions and very nicely cable managed from the factory). I'll have a more in depth review up later this week, I want to get my Saitek set ups from another location they are at, so I can put up side/side pictures of the TM WH and Cougars, CH, VKB, and Saitek X55/X65 as well. The only thing I don't have is an extention set, but I'm going to purchase the 3 part kit of those when the throttle comes available. I don't "need" them, as I'm happy how the stick sits and feels without them, but I realize many others will want to use them, and I myself am interested to see how much more precision can be gained by going with a taller stick with a longer throw. As I said previously, this is my 2nd T50, but I got to spend so little time with my first one before a good friend pleaded/begged for me to sell it to him as a favor, that it feels almost new again. Worth every penny.

^^ Looney, I hope they do that as well, a dedicated proper collective throttle that can be either used on desktop or mounted to their existing mounts, I'd buy it, instantly. Received my 2nd T50 the on Monday. I didn't have time to test it that day, so I just did my spring swap based on the experience with the last one and waited until Wednesday. I had tried all 3 cams, and found the installed from factory one to be the best overall for flight sims, and the lightest spring is what I prefer as well, so easy peasy 5 minutes to swap the springs. When I tested it I couldn't get the software to recognize the axis or calibrate it at all. I tried putting various sticks on it (I have several Warthog and 2 Cougar top ends that I tried to no avail). I tried the T50 stick on the WH bases, and it was working fine. 3 hours of head scratching later, I contacted tech support via email. Virpil answered my tech support ticket in about 2 hours, and advised me on a number of steps to troubleshoot before getting excited about returning it for service right out of the gate. First step was the problem, the plug needed to be pulled and reseated internally, the primary USB plug end on the board. It looked seated, but it wasn't, or just needed that "wiggle" that sometimes fixes stuff. Boom. Back in business, this one is even better than my first, extremely precise, and smooth in movement. Like glass in fact, and I haven't even put it in the mount yet, that's today's mission. I'll post pics of it when I'm finished, and write a longer and more detailed review on my experience with Virpil so far. Comparing this stick to my WH, Cougar, modified Cougar, CH, Saiteks, etc - the only thing close is my VKB Gunfighter, very similar obviously, but Virpil sent me a golden unit this time. The tests I've done with joytester graphs are laughably better than everything else by a country mile. Truly worth every dollar. The only complaint I have isn't a complaint at all, but a wish list item. I want a cam that has no/little dead zone like the factory installed cam, yet less progressing or NO increasing tension as you move to the outer limits of the stick, more like the harder center cam included in the parts, but without the harder center, a center like the stock cam, yet arms/legs like the hard center cam. That'd be PERFECT for me, and many others I suspect as well. I'm going to construct my own perhaps and test that. Even still, the stock cam is like 95% perfect for me, but to reach 100% lessening the increasing tension as you move outwards would do it. Considering Virpil is consolidating much of its work under one new, and very large new roof/building, I expect the already great company will continue to improve.

Agreed - particularly when the JHMCS and Aim9x combo are available. That'll be a massive impact on WVR fights in the game, and the Hornet will be close to equal to the F15 so far as MRM fights with the Aim120. Plus as you said, all the a2g ord and systems as well. Hornet will reign supreme until some future a/c, perhaps the Tomcat will displace it, but not in visual range fights.

M1Combat, you also didn't likely even see it in the "3F" configuration with the max G and other power/maneuverability restrictions still in place. Some deployed F35s over in the Pacific/Japan recently got the 3F, there have been some F15 pilots posting about fighting it in a2a practice fights on the net if you search around the defense journals/websites.

I ordered mine March 1, it shipped on the 23rd, and that included a 2 day long weekend in Belarus. I placed the order later in the evening my time too IRRC, so technically it'd be March 2nd to be fair. So, 20 days total, and only 14 total "working" days. This is roughly half of what they say to expect, 10 to 14 on their end, and then 5 to 14 on the shippers end. Last thing I can see in the tracking info is it left customs in Minsk on the 28th. The order I placed before Xmas took about 3 weeks total from placing the order to receiving the package in my box. I have no complaints in this department, however I hope once Virpil gets into their new building and starts streamlining operations, they explore other options for shipping - if there is any. The cost we're paying for EMS, I do wonder if FedEx or even ...UPS (boooooo!) wouldn't be a less expensive option, which would also give the customer MUCH better tracking capability.

Can you expand at all on how much better you find your Odyssey compared to the Rift so far as detail level goes? Cost isn't an issue, we have a Rift on all 4 of our gaming PCs in the home, it's more of the PITA factor, and IF it's worth it in terms of enough of a performance boost. My major complaint with VR/Rift is the detail level, and I suppose I just would like opinions on how much better WMR/Odyssey truly is in that department.

Ah, I didn't know that the controllers weren't supported. I don't use the Rift controllers anyway, just use my mouse and Hotas binds, but that is a good point, as I'd consider using them if they are accurate and work well.

I have a pile of pedals, MFG, Slaw, VKB, Chx2, Saitekx2, and more. Of the custom pedals, iMO the VKB stays put the best on carpeted floors out of the box. There are lots of ways you can make any set stay put, velcro, wood mounts, etc. One reason the VKB stay put is the way they function. MFG for example, you're pushing from the knee, your foot stays flat and pretty motionless on the pedal, where as with the VKB your knee/leg is locked and motionless (mostly), and the ankle does most of the movement. This results in less overall pressing on the pedal platform in total, which results in it not tending to move the entire pedal set as much. Also the direction of the pressure with the VKB movement is more down, where as with MFG and others like it, the press from the knee/leg is more forward than the VKB movement is. Net result is the VKB will stay put for me on any surface with no mods/velcro/etc, but my MFG and Slaw pedals I've added velcro/etc to both to help keep them in place. Also, the ankle being a much finer motor skill than the knee/leg movement, usually the VKB lets you be a pit more precise, but YMMV on that.

Wanting advice from anyone who has the Rift and now uses the Samsung Odyssey WMR. $ isn't really an issue, but I don't want to go through the hassle of getting a new unit and figuring out all the settings/etc for it, and then not see much improvement. Really would like more info than is in the current threads specifically about how the Odyssey is an improvement over the Rift for DCS, from those who have used both.

Both - 4 gaming system setups in our home usually, and I've been collecting HOTAS since the 90s, have about 20 and 8 rudder pedals total.

I've had 2 orders from Belarus to Canada from Virpil now, one is in customs, the other before Xmas and not during a sale. First one took under the advertised time, about 2.5 weeks total. This one is pretty much bang on their stated times, a day or two early on the 10-14 WORKING days including their long weekend they had at the start of March. Shipping looks to be on time, likely early in fact. As I tell anyone who asks me about the T50/etc, when they get serious about ordering one, I tell them that they should be prepared to wait a month-ish, and be patient. They are after all in the middle of a sale, are a very new company that is growing rapidly, and to expect "instant" order filling is something you might get with Amazon ordering your Saitek X56, but this is a different animal entirely, right? I can understand being impatient, I emailed in a number of times this order myself, as I wasn't clear on the dates/etc - Virpil has since made it crystal clear on their website regarding the lead times it takes to both assemble, test, package, and ship orders, as well as the estimated time it takes EMS to get it to you. There is going to be teething issues as Virpil goes through this next phase of small business growth, and so far IMO they've done a great job, and I think they'll continue to improve, more rapidly now with the new building/setup. Most importantly Virpil's people have had an excellent attitude, in both my dealings and those I've observed online on the various sims (all of them pretty much) I play and follow. Virpil's attitude, willingness to listen (carefully) to feedback and when required acting on it, is what's going to move them forward. Speedbird gives good advice too, prepare yourself for 6 weeks as a worst case, so far as ordering right now. Most likely IMO orders won't take that long, based on the posts on various forums including Virpil's I've read about recent orders, so if you plan for 6 weeks, you'll most likely be pleasantly surprised. Other custom makers have a lead time too - I've purchased from MFG, Slaw, VKB, etc, and it's pretty standard to either wait a month, frequently much more, as well as long periods between units being in stock.

My order (2nd one) is on the way as well now, a few days early, tracking says it was posted on the 23 or March which is in fact ahead of schedule by a few days. Great news about the new shop for Virpil, this can only streamline their productivity and have a positive effect for us, the end users. Great looking sign on the building too, very pro. BRD is among the only set of custom peds I don't own (I collect HOTAS, all of them since the early 90s), I have the Crosswinds, VKBs, Slaw (109 Cams), etc, but no BRD yet. If Virpil and BRD collab on a new ped set, they can sign me up for that as well as the throttle and WarBRD. Really after that WarBrd, as I will play DCS/VR with the Virpil Deskmount setup, but for my WW2/AcesHigh online flying, I still prefer to have a desk top setup. I have the VKB Gunfighter (and all the CH, 2 Warthogs, all the Saiteks, etc etc), for my desktop set up now, but what'd be perfect for me is the WarBRD desktop and T50 desk mount. Watching the site every day for the news that the throttle and Warbrd are for sale. I'd order them now - like pre access games or how DCS sold the F18 module early type deal - if it was possible. I've really missed my T50 since letting it go to a begging friend - good friend to keep happy, as he's an RCAF pilot, 2500 hours in the Hornet and has flown 5 other fighters in NATO's inventory (Empire test pilot school grad). However, I was just getting used to the T50, and now I have to work that muscle memory over again. Truly a great stick, I've recommended the T50 to a couple other Aces High players, I know one just ordered this last week after my 3 page AAR to him on the forum about mine. Great company to deal with as well.

Congrats Haukka81, very nice. I'm on my 2nd, it should be here in a week or two, friend bought my first one. Any plans on switching cams/springs? If so PM me, I have some great videos archived on how to do that easily. In fact, i'll just link them here.