84-Simba

Attitude hold - Trim button left

Weird, he does the job very well here but I usually am no higher than 200ft and often way lower. I enter my hover, trim ... then activate the ''auto hover'' and switch to the front seat. Note that I have auto-handover boxed.

And I tested all 3 tracks myself and they were working just fine ... I can provide the .miz file if you want to do it by yourself.

Just look at my posts above. 2 back-to-back shots and the Limas tracked some ghost target (and not ballisticaly fell somewhere) 50m away from the ''initial lock'' target. Both went to the EXACT same spot and had the exact same flight profile/path and behaviour. Note that you can observe the EXACT same behaviour (the missiles fall in the EXACT same spot) in both tracks, meaning it is consistent from one test flight to another, even with a different flight route to target. Then INU reset Next shot at the same target, from the very same position (not moved one bit), very same procedure and it tracked the right spot and shacked. It took a different flight profile though. One last shot at another target and it worked again (while it was not working in previous tests as shown on other tracks) So no, it is not a matter of setup nor anything. The third track is the most obvious at showing everything and should be slightly shorter than the very first. The second track is to show that everything is working fine when put directly on station (just for the sake of proving there is something degrading over time of flight)

Hi ! To separate from another problem I'm creating a new thread. I set a JTAC in a Stryker (TOW) and it has the capability to actively lase. When it gives me the coordinates, I get 8 digits and an altitude ... but if the coordinates are completely off, the altitude is true and it lases at the right target. When I say the coordinates are off, they are off by 300m at least. Let's say Axeman picks up a general area coordinates and do the precise targeting with the laser ... What I observed is that he gives me the altitude of the real target but and not the true altitude of the point he gave me. Like - 56572736 at 230ft. Enter those coordinates and the Apache will give you 252ft. Check on the f-10 map and the Apache is right ; the TADS looks where it should and the altitude matches. And if you LST the TADS to where Axeman is lasing (the target) it is at 230ft. So basically Axeman cannot give me more precise coordinates but is giving me the correct target altitude. Is that supposed to work that way ?

I may have missed that because I wasn't sure what I was looking for. But that doesn't explain why the Lima would look like tracking a "false" target I believe, since it is supposed to be radar guided.

Check if you have George AI auto Handover boxed. If not, your controls will remain active when you'll switch to front seat and you'll have to press the handover button.

Thank you ... Yes, I guess it will take longer than usual by nature of the problem. I anticipated the confusion about the JTAC so I edited the original post and title to delete it completely. I will run another thread to be more precise on that topic.

Again another test today and you'll find the track attached. Again, it is another long track but it proves the INU problem : Did a straight flight to the BP, lase/store/slave (T02 & T03) to find the very same "offset" and the first 2 Lima shots went exactly where they always go when ACQ T02. For the sake of it, I did unbox/rebox doppler and reseted INU 1 and 2 ... another lase/store/slave on the same target (T04) and there was a slight offset but to the right this time. Launched the Lima and the missile took another trajectory but tracked the target and shacked. ACQ on a second target previously stored (T03) and there was the same offset as when I stored it, but the missile tracked and shacked. So ... there is definitely INU drift involved that from what I understood, the Limas are inertialy guided first, then radar. There is no informations on the proper way to update the position of the Apache and Casmo told me that it wouldn't be needed since it would be blended with GPS. But even a rather butcher way of doing it solved the issue. What makes me think there is some bug involved is that the first 2 Lima shots seemed NOT to fall ballisticaly behind the target (at 7ish km). Both went EXACTLY on the same point in the ground and did a quick turn just before hitting the ground, like if they were tracking something that is not there (and beside the intended target, nothing is there and the Shilka targeted is in the open roughly 50m to the right). And after the INU reset, the 3rd shot took another trajectory and found it's intended target. Between 1st, 2nd and 3rd shots I did not move one bit so the initial lasing for the Lima was the same for all 3 shots. I would expect this behaviour from a JDAM, because if the the position of the launch point is untrue then the inertial guidance drives the bomb off. But the Lima is supposed to have a terminal radar guidance, and there is no way it should track a "false position" ... add to that that on the first 2 missed shots, the missile passes just under the nose of the Shilka. I don't mind the missile going off for the first part off its flight (if the designated target coordinates are wrong because of an INU drift), but I can't see why it cannot correct its trajectory to reach a target 50m away. @BIGNEWY @Raptor9 Can anyone investigate this issue ? I'm sorry in advance for the long tracks but this the only way to accumulate enough INU drift to demonstrate the issue. OR, I missed something in my startup that keep the INU position blended with the GPS, but I did not see anything about that in Matt's, Casmo's nor anyone's startup videos. Thank you ! Test INU reset.trk

Did another test and it seems that the Limas are actually tracking something because they go right at the same point and appears to make a quick left-turn just before touching the ground. 4 shots at the same target from 4 different positions and distances (4 to 7 km) and the missiles went right at the same point in the ground. Tried to turn them all on instead of auto ... no factor. Tried to lase with different codes ... no factor.

Hi again ! I'm still struggling with the points and the Lima in the Apache. If I do a cold-dark startup and fly about 30-40 min, my Limas won't shack anything. I also noted that my stored points are always far from where I pointed them. I point a target, lase and store. If I ACQ that point and slave, the TADS will point way off. If I move the TADS to the intended target, lock and launch a Lima, the missile will fly to the "wrong stored point" and seems to track something that is not there. You'll find a track attached (drift) .. it's rather long but that's the only way to ensure potential drift bug or problem or mishap from my side. Again, the problem is not present when starting hot and on station. Drift.trk Drift2.trk

What do you mean ?

Is there a way to recalibrate INS ? After an around 30min flight my INS seems to be off. When I enter JTAC coordinates and slave on that point it is waaay off the intended target ... Add to that that I cannot shack anything with the Limas ... they end up where the INS falsely place the point and never track. Weird.

Same as for today.

You need a track to reproduce the wingman calling endlessly ? Come on ... He calls ground and airborne contact more than 200 miles away.

Has anything been worked on with this bug already ? Thanks.

Hmmm ... maybe I was in straf mode already. I'll try again and let you know. Thank you

Hi ! Today I tried to do some SEAD on a SA-3 and after the targetting with the HAD I focused my TGP on the SAM site. Point track a launcher but the TGP was not available in the Markpoint menu ; only HUD, FCR and OFly. This is the first time I see this issue.

Absolutely. I usually set a conservative bingo but I could eventually dump fuel close to home. I don't know if it is possible in the Viper nor if it's implemented. I'll check this out next time. Good information though Thx

Yep

As far as I know now : You can hot rearm/refuel but : - You have to ditch your external tanks or make the ground crew rearm without and add them again ; - You can rearm with dumb and laser bombs but you won't be able to change the code ; - You have to realign completely if you add any GPS guided munitions such as WMCS, JDAMs or JSAWs. (you'll notice that the INU flag is up on the ADI and that the alignment is 0 on the INS Page) Note that everytime I tried, the coordinates and altitude were correct on the INS Page. So you just have to confirm the datas with enter and wait. I usually request ground power and shut the engine down. I find weird that a re-alignment is needed in this case since the plane knows exactly where it is ... And off-course the smart munitions are off at this time. Though I don't know if it is just a DCS behaviour or an actual IRL procedure requirment, maybe something like software or hardware ... or both.

Thank you for detailed answer my friend ! I mark your comment as the solution but I'll restest everything that has been said. Have a noce day

Sorry guys but my OP is not about the alignement procedure per se. If you just switch to NAV normally in the first flight everything looks normal to me. My questions were : - Is the refuel / rearm process demanding an INS re-alignment ? - Is the refuel / rearm process demanding to be cold or can it be done hot ? (in which case, what is the process in DCS) We now know how to deal with fuel tanks but still remain a potential problem with INS. @BIGNEWY @NineLine @Wags Do you have any element to enlighten us ? Again, I'm not debating on whether a process is real or not ... just how it works in DCS. Thank you guys. FIX is the in-flight INS recalibration, right ? Using TGP, FCR, Overfly, etc ...

Thank you guys for all the info on the fuel tanks. Regarding the INS alignment (which is my main suspect on the JDAMs mishapp), do you guys know if there is a particular process ? Is there any need to realign ? Hot or cold mandatory ?

Thank you for the fuel tanks. For the JDAMs, maybe I wasn't clear enough. The bombs are perfectly accurate on the first flight but after a rearm / refuel they are not anymore. Also, but I maybe wrong, I think they took more time to be fully aligned and ready to be dropped. I made 2 flights back to back on the same training range and did pretty much the exact same process regarding my fence in since I have a particular steerpoint to do it. On the first flight the JDAMs were ready when I arrived on the range. On the second, I had to make my laser-guided bombs runs until the JDAMs were aligned ... and they missed their targets. I had a similar experience with 2xGBU-31 penetrators missing completely a concrete shelf on a second flight while they went dead on target on the first flight.