SMH

Yeah I did some more testing and that makes sense with what I've been seeing. Thanks.

It's also likely giving users a false sense of improved performance. And right when we're supposed to be focused on performance with all these new graphics options. Is it just AIs or do players' aircraft lack them too? As far as I can tell my own plane looks fully modeled in the external views and I'm pretty sure other players' planes do as well in MP.

Yeah. Like I said, I think their employees and internal testers end up out of touch with what the regular community experience is, and that we're not in on everything they've been informed about, so often forget to let us know. I'm also concerned that almost nobody will now be testing the ST version, so it might develop more issues over time. I've been getting bad frame rate stutters, particularly in the minutes after spawning in, in MT all along. Haven't had a chance to test 2.9 ST yet as I just discovered this, but I assume when I switch back to ST those will clear up. (Will report back after I test.)

And now that I know how to launch ST version again, it seems the dirt thrown up from vehicle tracks is now gone in that version as well. Clouds of dust, yes, but no more dirt chunks. I guess that's one way to make their outputs match! Anyway, the dust was most important because it helps with spotting vehicles on the move from aircraft. But it's a shame to be moving backwards, effects-wise, and losing the dirt effect.

The Updater.exe is launching the MT version now. This means that anyone who manually made a shortcut before for the MT version now has two shortcuts that launch the MT version and no shortcut to launch the ST from. (We now have to do the exact opposite as before and make a shortcut to DCS.exe in the /bin folder for the ST version.) Also noticed that vehicles still don't kick up dirt in MT, but the dust has been restored. Baby steps, I guess. If this was intentional you'd think it would have been worth mention in the Changelog. Also, the MT version still calls itself a "PREVIEW" in the lower left of the main screen. Seems a bit odd to force a "preview" on everyone running the OB (this week's newsletter also literally instructed us to run the OB version, so please don't tell me it's my fault for using the OB, everyone knows it's the de facto release version that 99% of multiplayer servers run). I wasted a bunch of hours on testing between the two before noticing this. It was finally when I saw "GPU Bound" in the frame-rate overlay that I clued in both shortcuts were now launching the same version. Again, some mention of this would have been nice. (Perhaps your internal testers knew but you need to remember, your regular customers don't get spoon fed secrets like they do. You guys seem to get out of touch with what the regular community experience is.) (I didn't put this under Bug Reports as I'm not sure if it's a bug or intentional. Move if appropriate, thanks.)

Yeah, as expected. I haven't quite understood why everyone was in such a hurry to make their picture look poorer.

External windshield wiper animation is glitchy. (Looks fine from inside the cockpit.) DCS 2.9.0.46801 Open Beta

Multiplayer is my main thing so that's pretty important to me. I'll give the trial a try, thanks. Perhaps it doesn't modify the executable but rather, changes the cursor on the go? (Does it run as a separate app while you play or does it run one time and modify the game exe? Like, do you have to re-apply it after ever update? If the latter I'd definitely expect it to not pass IC.) Ah! I see it says "does not affect any game files" so that's a good sign! https://pandateemo.github.io/YoloMouse/

What are you talking about? He never climbs out of ground effect. Thanks for wasting 4 minutes of my life. I'll be ignoring you from now on.

Does YoloMouse pass IC?

It only cropped up early this year, if I recall correctly. You can pretty much tell by watching Wags' new-feature/training videos, at some point his mouse cursor goes black and nobody can see what he's pointing at.

Good! Please stop spamming the thread with it and go fly the thing and then tell us it's not ridiculous. (By the way, still waiting for that video of a Huey doing that, in any fuel-state. But we all know I'll be waiting forever because they don't do that.) R/C modelers call this "flying scale". While it's a thing in their hobby it absolutely is not one in ours. And there's no need to yank it, you can be as gentle with it as you want, it'll still climb straight up at 2400 FPM with 100% fuel and torque and temperature within limits. (And you actually can't move the collective or any other control input faster than is plausible in real life, that's a feature of all DCS aircraft.)

You want to be able to hover-takeoff at 3000 FPM instead of a mere 2400?

Ground effect hover in the OLD engine model... note the pedal deflection. Then compare with the new EM. Almost no pedal range left! Just to hover in ground effect! The old EM behavior jibes with every real-world video I've carefully observed over the 7 years I've been flying this module. The needed pedal deflection has more than doubled. We don't have enough authority in cyclic, pedals, or stabilator anymore. (Again, no doubt because the new EM is overpowering them. You can't just change one thing independently of everything else and if you do you throw out literal man-years worth of testing and tweaking!) Stop obsessing over little numbers in tables and take a look at the whole thing together! It's no longer coherent or believable. Do your really think it was that wrong before and is now right? I have said "Standard Day, Sea Level" several times. You're just not listening. You even have the Mission file to try it with and check anything you want in.

Okay, here's one more track. You can ignore the engine tests as I think now that's actually correct (and wasn't an interaction with weight-on-skids like we had early on in this new model). I still have yet to try it in the old model but it makes sense. (The EGT still drops way too fast but that's a nitpick.) But what this track does show is me powering out of VRS in a hover with no translational lift to speak of. 100% fuel, sea level, standard day. Super_Huey_Test_05_EngineDyingLowRPM(ProbOK)AndPoweringOutofVRS.trk

I'm getting a little tired of your condescending posts. You do not tell me when I may or may not come back, and I really don't care to "chat about it" with you at all. I don't believe you even looked at my tracks and you don't seem to grasp through your spec tunnel-vision that you can't just change one part of this model without needing to change every other part. (Just like you can't move one control on a chopper without needing to adjust all the others.) It is far more important that the model behave plausibly than that any one particular performance spec is met, and simply adding more power to try to do that breaks everything else. You also don't seem to grasp that the instrumentation (like everything else in the sim) is imaginary. I know far more about software development than you know about helicopters and we're not building a helicopter here, we're modeling one in software. I also think the slip ball is broken. (I know the Huey likes to crab a bit at high speed but it's crazy now, flies forward at almost 30 degrees left of the direction of travel when you get the ball centered.) Again, explainable by the power/torque being increased and nothing else being increased to match. The vertical stabilizer no longer gets enough push from the slipstream to keep her straight. It's also shuddering hard, even well below 110 knots. It never did that before either except when much closer to vMax. I may have figured out the engine shutting down on me thing. I just managed to reproduce it while doing a full shutdown, by pulling full collective once I had reduced throttle to idle. That brought engine RPM below 40%, and that killed it and stuck the temperature at 600, then it went instantly to 0 when it stopped completely - clearly wrong. I don't know offhand if the engine cutting out when the rotor drags it down below 40% is right but I'm pretty sure it didn't do that before. (Will check...) Actually, wait a second, the power take-off is a free-wheeling turbine. The engine might overheat but it shouldn't shut down as there's no physical connection between it and the rotor at all. In the mean time you can find me a video of a Huey doing a +2400 FPM vertical takeoff. Ours now does that easily even with 100% fuel so there should be plenty out there. (There aren't. Because it's not realistic.) Do we have a list somewhere of what ED were even trying to accomplish with these massive changes to a long established and (formerly) widely loved module?

There's two good autos in this one but I run into some VERY weird behaviors on the first try that feels a lot like the original throttle-skids bug I reported early in this thread. After the first auto I can't get the engine to throttle back up on the ground. (Yet it's showing 600 degrees EGT! I even checked external view to see if it was on fire or something.) I had to restart it to get the engine RPM back up. (Ignore the 2nd auto attempt, I messed up the auto by forgetting to chop the throttle.) 3rd flight at 8:09:30 has another not quite so extreme vertical takeoff and a normal autorotation. I do vertical takeoffs in this one to show how unrealistic they are. Have you ever seen a Huey leap into the air like that? My 2nd takeoff has me at +2400 FPM vertical, zero airspeed and torque over 100% and about 80% left pedal deflection to keep from yawing right (see attached image). Same mission as before, standard day, sea level. One thing I seem to have been wrong on is how much the needles should split. I don't quite understand why this is, I'd think the engine would drop to 40% idle RPM because the sprag clutch is slipping behind the rotor with almost zero friction. But I just found this and it looks like what we see so... okay! https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=260084811682777 Please just put it back to how it was. There definitely shouldn't be a connection between throttle and skids. There is no "weight on skids" sensor in a Huey. This new model is clearly broken in some fundamental ways and probably needs to be completely "refactored". Very surprising to me no experts are noticing it, but then just being an expert doesn't necessarily mean you're paying attention. Super_Huey_Test_04_100FuelAutosWeirdThrottleSkidsInteractionAgain.trk

Found one more issue, the Torque gauge will go over the red line which I believe is supposed to be impossible (because the sprag clutch is designed to slip at the maximum torque to protect the rest of the powertrain). Also note the full speed run I do out towards the ocean, which is about 130 knots, my stick is 100% forward. Couldn't nose-down if I wanted to! I perform the autorotation in this one a little bit better and it seems to verify my suspicion that the engine RPM needle won't ever go lower than the lowest speed the rotor RPM reaches after the throttle is chopped. Note how the engine RPM is higher during the autorotation in this one than in the previous one. (I'll try to do one more with no needle split at all... I'm flying without trim here to keep things simplified so I'm a bit wobbly. And of course my muscle memory no longer applies.) (All of these effects are explainable by way too much power and torque from the main rotors now. The pedals can barely counteract it, and the stabilator can barely keep the tail down at full speed even with full forward cyclic deflection.) Super_Huey_Test_02_100Fuel130knotsEngineRPMDuringAuto.trk

I couldn't get it to climb in hover fully loaded but with 100% fuel (7747 lbs), standard day, sea level she'll climb at 2000 FPM easy with both Torque and EGT at the top of the safe-range. Also note the extreme amount of left pedal required to counteract the Super Huey's extreme torque, over 66% of the pedal range! (Should be more like 25%, ask any Huey pilot or even just watch their feet in a video.) The needles also do split this time but not nearly enough. (There must have been an undocumented change since the Aug 2 update because every time the Changelog mentions a Huey FM change I reenable the new engine model and re-test it. EDIT: Or it might be that I did a poor job of entering autorotation and I had to get the rotor RPM back up with airspeed and the engine RPM remained where it had dropped to before the needle split, I'll try that again not in a hover and not concentrating on my controls display and instruments so much.) So, better than the last time I tried it but still way beyond plausibility. Caucasus_Super_Huey_Test_02_100Fuel.miz Super_Huey_Test_02_100Fuel2000FPM.trk

The "modding" feature is your own creation. We're not at fault for employing it. (If we weren't supposed to change it it would break Integrity Check, right? But it doesn't.) And you do realize that we are paying customers, right? I have never seen a business with such clear contempt for its revenue stream providers. Working on your track file of something everyone can clearly see just by simply bothering to try it...

Being critical is not unconstructive. Just the opposite. I haven't been rude here at all and I've contributed significant time to the testing and reporting of my formerly favorite module. You should thank me, not scold me.

I can't come up with any condition or regime where it won't hover so I'm not sure what you mean by "underperforming". You can either hover or you can't. I'll find a video that shows what's wrong, I saw some on YT recently but forget where exactly. [EDIT: Can't seem to find it now, I'll make a track file.]

So a fully loaded (indeed, overweight) Huey can take off straight up with zero translational lift and climb at 2000 FPM? I don't think so! Ground effect is gone (or we have too much power to notice it). VRS can be easily powered out of with no other action required. And the needles STILL don't split when the throttle is chopped! This is no longer a realistic module. It was my favorite! You've literally had months. And are you implying this won't even be addressed in the coming 2.9 big update? Unacceptable! Their newest helicopter model (the Apache) is their worst, and progressively getting even worse with every update. I fear they've recently lost some talent in that department. PLEASE just roll the Huey code back to what it was! (Same as what editing the lua does but remove the ability to cheat by having "Super Huey" mode enabled.)

Ditto! And nobody can whine "Early Access" at us this time! Yes it does but it's still a bit overpowered. But it's not just about the aircraft you're flying. People are expected to fly AGAINST the "Super Huey" too! Wrong is wrong and it doesn't belong in our supposedly high-realism sim.

Ping?