VpR81

So if it´s only for the lettering, this is just TM now offering both of their grips separately...

That´s truly some interesting info from you guys. Especially those pictures from you Baur helped a lot and covered everything i wanted to know about the measures. Less than a week if in stock sounds realy great, so i may get it prior to christmas. Did you pay with paypal? So extension related damages primarily meant for the grip instead of the base, or am i wrong? Anyways that´s ok for me, since i use a rig with no desk or whatever between me and the paddles and i don´t plan to use the warbrd center mounted. Space from left to right would propably be an issue with the Warbrd/WH deflection, rather than front/rear for me... I guess there is no way around a T50 base within the next few months... Or a T50+extension now and the Warbrd later? Damn, that´s a realy hard decision... Ah btw, maybe another question. Not sure if it´s worth asking since they´re officially compatible, but i´m still a bit concerned about it... Are there any known issues when using the TM Warthog or the TM F/A-18 grip on the VPC bases? Should work perfectly, shouldn´t they? Cheers

Hi all, I´m planning to upgrade my gear with a VPC WarBRD base and i did some research about it, but couldn´t find all the informations i need. I learned that the WarBRD base is meant for sidestick/desktop use without extensions, having about the same axis length as the TM Warthog base. Also, that use of extensions will void the WarBRDs warranty. My plan is to use the WarBRD base for my F-16 sidestick config and start to use the TM base, attached to its baseplate, center mounted with extension for my F/A-18 config. I´m aware about the TMs flaws in that term (gimbal, axis length) and that the VPC T50 base is a much better choice for that. But my budget says no to both at a time and my TM base is still working perfect. I want to order the WarBRD base together with the VPC curved extension, wich i think is a very nice one. I will never use it on the WarBRD base, but only on the TM base. Before i order any of that, i have a few questions about the VPC bases: 1) Can VPC identify the use (or non use) of an extension in case of a warranty related re-shipment? I´m asking this, because i don´t want to get into trouble just for ordering the WarBRD base together with the extension. 2) Do the VPC bases (T50 and WarBRD) fit on the TM baseplate? 3) If No.2 is not the case, can someone please give me the measures between the screw holes on the WarBRD base? 4) Do both VPC bases have different measures between their screw holes? 5) If No.4 is not the case, would a WarBRD baseplate with T50 base fit on a TM baseplate preparation, or would i have to drill new holes to mount the VPC baseplate to my rig? 6) How long does it usually take from order until delivery when ordered from Germany? 7) Prices on the VPC homepage are ex. VAT, but what do i have to pay in the end when delivered to EU/Germany? I hope i haven´t forgot anything and thank you guys in advance for your time Cheers

Very true. I used VS in combination with AWACS picture reports. When there were a lot of targets on the screen getting closer and i wanted to find out if there are some realy flying towards me. With RWS you had to lock on targets to see heading and speed, since there was no DL and no LTWS simulated back then. I found VS to be a good way to separate these targets without having to lock on to each of them prior to engagment and still have full scan range/width. However, i dont know if VS makes much sense with LTWS available but it would be nice to have it for completeness.

It´s been a while ago... but isn´t VS primarily meant to find targets closing in on you, assuming the target with the highest approach velocity beeing the most dangerous one? I remember to use this mode a lot in a well known F-16 sim in younger days. I´d love to have it in the Hornet...

Buttons in flight sims are like money and ammunition. You can never have enough of it :D Seriously, TARGET provides way more functions than just more buttons. For example, it defines the cuttoff/idle positions of the throttle as switches for a more realistic engine start/cutoff. This may be a peanut example, but i for myself like these little details and i don´t wanna have 2 way switches with only one position beeing able to be mapped. And there are a lot more of these little things with TARGET. You`re absolutely right, you don´t need TARGET for a great flight experience, but it´s also true that you´re missing a lot of the hogs potential without it. Not to talk about the script editor... Nice setup btw! May i ask what keyboard you have on the left side?

When creating/editing a profile, the cougar is listed as choosable device in TARGET GUI. I cant test it since i dont own the cougar, but i think this should work.

TARGET is way more versatile than DCS ingame mapping and provides more options. It allows you to map every switch position without beeing dependant on DCS "Joystick special" commands. Like Weegie said, GUI is more basic than the script editor, but does enhance the WH functions significant compared to DCS. Easy to use and provides a lot of options for your hotas, but to tap the full potential of the WH, you will need the script editor. There are some good tutorial vids on Youtube for both. If you re not willing to get into the SE, just try GUI. It will let you hot swap the grips without issues. Just make sure to exclude TM paddles (if you have some) from your profile, because TARGET morphes your hotas (and your paddles) into one virtual controller. Windows only allows 8 axis per controller and the WH hotas w/ paddles does have 10 axis. GUI is only used to map keys, axis are still set in DCS. So excluding the paddles doesent make much of a difference. cheers

Maybe you can find some here https://www.simparts.de/en/accessories/knob-covers.html

Exactly From my experience, yes. Never had any issues with that. I always quit the game and swapped grips, then restarted DCS. But i'm using TARGET for a while now, so i stop my F/A-18 profile, swap grips and just start the F-16 profile while DCS is running. Works for me, but i don't know how this is without TARGET.

Totally agree on that. Used the hog for a long time before trying out TARGET and don't ever wanna miss it. For the Hornet not realy. DCS provides a few Joystick special commands that make the switches on the WH TQS a 2 position switch, such as APU ON/OFF. With Target you can bind every position of the switches with commands of your choice and not only the "joystick special" commands. For example, i use the EAC switch for Master ARM ON in one position and OFF for the other position. Impossible with DCS' ingame keybinds. Pinky Switch has 3 commands with TARGET, with DCS only 2 are possible. DCS includes a lot of settings for the WH, but without TARGET you can't use the Warthogs full potential. Try it out and you'll be surprised. TARGET almost doubles the possible keybinds on the WH's throttle without using a toggle. The only drawback with TARGET (well, in fact it's a windows issue) is, that it morphes your controls into one virtual controller and windows does only allow 8 axis per controller. WH Hotas plus Pedals are 10 and you'll have to exclude the paddles from your TARGET profile. But since you only binding key commands in TARGET while axis are still set in DCS, it doesen't make much of a difference...

There is a high quality FF Base made in Switzerland. TM and VirPil compatible. Sadly no firmware working with DCS yet, but afaik it's planned to come. https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt/cls-e-joystick/?lang=de

Nevermind mate, i'm glad i could help you with your decision. If you have any further questions or wanna know any other measures, just drop me a line. I'll let you know about my center mount mod as soon as i get it done and whatever wich rig it will be, don't forget to share some pictures ;) cheers

Of course, not a problem. I uploaded some pictures to the album so you can check the distances you asked for. Sadly i doubt, that a center mounted stick and a mounted yoke/wheel would fit together. As for my center mount modification, i'll upload a few pictures as soon as it's completed and let you know about it. I'll reopen this thread or PM you. I know it's hard to find and choose a rig that perfectly fits when your needs force you to be picky, so i hope i could assist your decision at least a little bit. cheers

I checked the pedal width by holding the wheel mount frame in position and it doesen't fit. At least these pedals can't be used in tandem with a mounted wheel/yoke, they're simply too big. Also i should mention, that they don't fit perfectly on the padel plate. Only the front side holes of the padels fit to the plate. They're still tight and don't move a bit, but this is simply the disadvantage of the rigs simracing origin. It fits for like every racing pedal on the market, but i remember that i couldn't find any informations about flight padel compatibility. I expected to drill new holes, but after the padels fit more or less and are tight enough... i have to admit, that i was too lazy to do it yet... :music_whistling: As for the seat slide handle, It's just hooked with two bolts on each side and i could disassemble and reassemble it within 10 seconds. I for mayself planned to drill holes for several center mount positions, to have some flexibility here as well. When i finaly find some time and motivation... On the first look, when i tried to hold the wheel mount frame in place, it seemed like there should be no problem in using a yoke/wheel and a center mounted joystick at the same time. But i have to mount the frame in order to be sure. I'll do that tomorrow and upload a few pictures. cheers

Oh yes, you're absolutely right. I came back to DCS when the Hornet launched EA and in that time i started to compare rigs and to take a closer look to each of them, so it's been a while ago. Sorry for the misleading info, but i was sure the N1 doesen't have a bottom plate and no removable wheel mount frame. Seems like i was wrong, but good to see you recheck all informations you get. The S1 and the N1 share a few spare parts, such as the keyboard/mouse tray but overall i would rate the S1 more versatile, yes. Especially when it comes to adjustment of the complete setup. The slide handle is neither screwed nor welded on the slider, but simply clipped and comes as a separate part from the sliders out of the box. Im not sure if it's removable with assembled seat console, but i will take a look on that later and report. I'm pretty sure, there is no need to install the handle in order to mount the seat console. But you are right, there is a chance that the handle could block access to the bottom plate, but i took that into account and decided to equal that with a curved extension if necessary. After assembling and adjusting the rig to my size, i saw that it should also work with a straight one. That eliminates the option to slide forward, but so does removing the slide handle... That is a realy interesting point and tbh i've never taken this into account. I rarely go for racing and i've always been disassembling all controls and sidemounts before installing the wheel mount frame. I think i could install a wheel and a center mounted stick at the same time without issues, but i'm not sure. I have to try that out to give reliable infos. Same for the pedals with assembled wheel mount frame, but i assume they're to wide.

I think i got it now, take a look at this: https://forums.eagle.ru/album.php?albumid=1783 hope this link works...

Absolutely. That's why i choosed the flight mount over the handbrake mount. With center stick layout, it also provides extra space for a panel at starboard. Yes of course. To be honest, price and availability wasn't realy a factor since the N1 was in no way interesting from day one. The N1 is heavier and needs more space and is way less adjustable, also there is no flight mount kit for the N1 and the mount for the steering wheel is not removable, but a part of the complete frame. Also i think the N1 has no bottom plate to mod for center mounted joystick. The other rig RS1 is also less adjustable, but lighter and a bit smaller. There is a flight mount for it, but it's also not very adjustable. Not sure if the steering wheel mount is removable. On the S1, there is literally everything adjustable. You can mount the flight mount (lol) at two different positions and then in addition adjust the rail in distance, angle and height for example. The pedal plate can be mounted at 5 different positions and is then adjustable with the bottom plate wich is mounted on a slider. In addition to that, the seat console is also mounted on a slider to adjust pedal (and throttle/stick) distance. Also it needs moderate space in my opinion, about 90cm in width with attached flight mount and 165cm in length with the seat. These (and the quality) where the reasons to choose it over all others i took a look on, also from other high class manufactors like Monstertech or Obutto. Price not so much, since it's still not the cheapest solution. Problem with the steering wheel and flight sim mount in tandem is that you'd have to climb into the seat instead of just sitting down. May be a little detail for the hardcore simmers and extra space to mount more systems like panels or MFD's, but for my part i'm getting old and i can feel it in the back. I always remove the flight mount when i go for racing. I'm also not realy sure, but i checked the mountings and it looks like as if it's not possible to mount them in tandem. I'd quickly take a few pictures but honestly, i'm a total social media noob and have absolutely no clue how to upload images here. There's only an option to link images, but then i'd have to upload them somewhere else?!? I'm confused... edit: took a closer look on the mounts, wheel mount and flight mount are attachable in tandem.

Nevermind mate, i'm happy to help you out. Yeah, i was afraid i'd purchase something and then won't be happy with it after spending that much money for a "toy". That's why i took my time and searched a lot online. I choosed very well and after a long time of thinking about pro's and con's and i have to say that i've never regret it. Nothing wiggles, shakes or moves, the whole construction is pretty tight. I enjoy every single time i jump in and start DCS or sometimes mount my steering wheel and go for GTR-2 or Assetto Corsa. I'm 186cm and i remember when i put it together i set the complete adjustment to maximum body size and couldn't reach the pedals properly. I think you're good as long as you're not taller than 200cm. That's what they also say on their homepage i think, player size from 140 - 200cm, but not sure about that. Also important for me was, that it needs a relative low seat position in relation to the paddels, so i can use my TPR's properly since they're incomfortable to use in a desk/office chair height. Fits perfectly for them. If you wan't to buy a S1 for central mount joystick only use, just make sure you purchase the handbrake/gear shift mount instead of the flight mount. Both are almost the same, but the handbrake kit is only one sidemount instead of two and comes with a larger baseplate (and is ~100€ cheaper), so you can not only mount your throttle there, but maybe another panel next to it. I personally want to be able to swap between F/A-18 and F-16 setup, wich is why i got the flight mount kit and want to modd the rig for additional central mount use in the nearby future. If you want to purchase one without seat and frame only it may be interesting to know, that the seat console is a FIA GT standard mount. Means, most racing seats (Recaro, Sparco etc) that have a FIA GT/touring car certification will fit in. I say most, because there are a few different FIA standards for seats wich differ in spacings between the screwholes. S1 has 290mm standard i think, but i'd have to read the manual to be sure. But the choice of seats that fit is still enormous, just make sure to pick the correct standard. Only drawback with the seat is, that you can mount it a bit angled to sit leaned back but not that much to fit the angle of a fighterjet seat. It's simply meant for simracing in the first place, but i guess that's whining on a high level... Oh btw, it's not 47kg. It's 74kg in total without flight mount. The flight mount will add another 24kg. My complete rig with pedals and hotas is heavier than my motorbike. Including fuel. O.o edit: About the small german manufactor you mentioned... I think there are two of them and both are also the only dealers in germany having RSEAT products in their shop. Both are specialized on simracing equipment and i think their rigs are as well. Not sure if there are flight sim upgrades available for them. One of both is located just 20km from my hometown (wich is why i had no shipping costs), but their rigs are very expensive. Don't wanna lie, but i think they were double or triple the price of the S1. these are the home rigs of the dealer i got mine from: https://virtualracingstore.com/simulatoren/vrl-manufaktur/vrl-kyoso-professionelles-fullmotion-simracing-rig/ https://virtualracingstore.com/simulatoren/vrl-manufaktur/vrl-shori-professionelles-simracing-rig/ and this is the other one: https://www.force2motion.de/Next-Level-Racing/ cheers

The problem is, that most gaming seats/simpits are meant for Simracing and only for some are flightsim convertion kits available. For most of them, you have to selfmade these flightsim mounts. This makes center mounted joystick use difficult with available converstion kits because afaik these very few with available flightsim upgrades do only fit for sidestick config. The reason for that is, that the manufactors just take their existing handbrake/gear shifter mount, convert it for joystick/throttle mount and sell two of them together as flightsim upgrade. And since there aren't any cars that have their gear shift/handbrake center mounted in front of the driver seat, it always ends up with sidestick config. I researched a lot before i purchased mine and found mostly simpits that can only be upgraded to a flight sim config. And most of them can only be used in sidestick config. I only know two (there are propably more) with preparation for center mounted sticks, but i'm not sure about the built quality. The Airforce seat from Playseat, wich is only a chair with adopted mounts and the Volair Sim Pit. https://www.volairsim.com/ What made me skeptic was the fact, that (as i understand) Volair sells the complete pit (including all upgrade mounts) for a pretty cheap price of about 700€ while mine is stock without any aditional mounts at 1000€, with Alcantara seat it was 1200€ + 250€ for the flight mount wich is double the price for way less features included. Including all available mounts the Volair offers in it's package, mine would be at 2000-2300€. I work for a company that produces industrial metal frames and hydraulik cylinders with high quality standard (Liebherr, General Dynamics Land Systems and the manufactor of the Leopard 2 MBT - KMW, are some of our customers) so i know something about the topic of producing metal frames and what it costs. And i highly doubt that it is possible to build a SimPit like the Volairs in outstanding quality and all these features for the price Volair is taking for their pit. At least if you're producing in the EU or the US instead of china or somewhere in africa. They HAVE to save money somewhere and this mostly affects quality. Maybe i'm wrong about it and someone owning the Volairs can confirm the quality. In the end you have to decide if you can live with lower quality(if it's the case) in favor for functionality cheers

remap everything to the controller isn't the problem with the virtual controller at all. It just needs a bit of time. The real problem is, that Windows only allows a specific number of buttons (forgot how much) and 8 axis per controller. I don't know how much axis the T16000 does have, but for the Warthog HOTAS combined with pedals that have toe brakes you'll have 9. I use the TARGET GUI because you can map the 2 way switches on both positions and not only one as it is with the DCS ingame mapping. I had to exclude my TPR's from my TARGET profiles so that only the Throttle and the stick are morphed together as VC. Since you can only map buttons in TARGET GUI and axis are still set in DCS it doesen't make much of a difference at all, but is a useful information to know if you want to use TARGET. Besides that, i can not complain about the TM mapping software. It's working great for me.

115 bucks for a new condition grip with almost full warranty is realy a good deal :thumbup: Sometimes it's worth waiting a bit. I only ordered it when it was new on the market because i had a feeling i won't get it for that price later. I don't know why, but it turned out the next day that my feeling was right. edit: A TM Hornet and a Viper Throttle wich could be purchased separately would be nice as well...

Great job. That looks like a mod worth to install. I think i'll build one of these as soon as i purchased my other needs... Thanks for sharing

I got mine for 169,99€ when it entered the webshop at conrad.de. Was by far the cheapest price online so i ordered it with 4 year warranty for additional 16€. The day after i ordered it was set to 199,99€ on conrad.de :D I think the shop admin called out the wrong price (it was exactly the price ex. VAT the next day) and they realised their mistake with the first order. And that was me :D:D:D Bad luck for them, since there is a law in germany they have to sell it for the price it was called out at the time it was ordered, no matter how much money they loose.

Well, maybe because we have a black sea map that is only called caucasus. I don't know, when i open mission editor i can see the whole black sea with surrounding coastlines, but only caucasus region is modeled with objects. They also call it Persian Gulf instead of what it realy is (and was called in the beginning): Strait of Hormus. It makes very much sense to ask for a map that has every area modeled i can see in the mission editor on that map. What doesen't make sense is relating the grade of detail to the name of the map, instead of the displayed terrain.