Battery not recharging.

Update 06.04.2015:

With open beta 1.2.16 update 1 the battery/generator problem is solved.

Original post:

Every now and then i had flickering cockpit illumination and broken radio transmissions. First I thought it was network lag. Then I considered it as a simple bug.

I think the battery isn´t charged by the generator. Unfortunately there is no voltage indicator.

One way to reproduce it is flying at least half an hour performing take offs and landings in short succession. Normally lowering the L/G at low to idle RPM, but raising it at RPM well above 2000. Or flying around and within 30 minutes 10x lowering and raising the landing gear and flaps while idling the engine below 1400RPM.

After both ways of torture for the battery the voltage is too low for the FuG16, when the engine is below 1600RPM. The cockpit lighting either starts to flicker or dims and the radio does only work at RPM >1600. A following 30 min flight at 2400RPM and no addition use of electrical components(only switched on) the battery doesn´t recover to a state where it can provide enough voltage for the FuG16.

I suppose the battery should be charged by the generator.

It also happened during online flight with only one L/G + flaps up down cycle.

Inflight:

On ground:

DCS repair didn´t change this behavior.

Can someone confirm this?

BTW. This Bug showed me to what detail this aircraft is modeled.

E.g. with low battery voltage the L/G has problems retracting

Fantastic!!!

And in case the process of lowering and raising the L/G is to slow for you just pull the "Fahrwerk" cb. See here

Fox

Edit: Somehow the embedded videos don´t show up. Direct link added

Edit 2: Fixed the embedded links

Yes, I noticed that too after a few stop-and-goes. Guess she needs to be plugged into ground-power for recharging. :)

Dear ED Testers.

Is this a bug or a feature?

I have a track for this situation, but it has 10MB(exceeding forum limit). So if a tester needs it I can provide it via a dropbox dl.

Thanks

I think that is a feature (Yo-Yo tell over a realistic electric system on the Fw-190D-9 develop, and that has started develop on the P-51D), surely, you can discover other "strangle" electrical effects if you continue testing them.

Landed wheels up last night, thinking, well I'm sure I pressed the button and heard them start to down. On the debrief screen first unusual thing is battery solenoid fault, then lists almost complete shutdown of electrics. I'd been doing takeoff/landings and the previous landing was slightly bumpy. Banged the tail down hard so maybe this thing is an effect of that?

I think its a feature - IIRC the generator wouldn't charge the battery below a certain rpm, and 1600 rpm sounds about right. Since on the Fw 190 most systems, including the landing gear are electronically actuated, its no surprise the gear will struggle once the battery is depleted due to heavy use and no charge..... :)

It seems gentlemen that we have ourselves a lovely, lovely little detail.

I think that is a feature (Yo-Yo tell over a realistic electric system on the Fw-190D-9 develop, and that has started develop on the P-51D), surely, you can discover other "strangle" electrical effects if you continue testing them.

So you say that a frontline Aircraft that has

electrically driven landing gear,

electrically driven flaps,

electrically driven horizontal stabilizer trim

and of course radio and IFF

has no need for the battery being recharged inflight?

The generator can not fail?

It is the same with Chewbacca living on Endor:

That doesn´t make sense!

I think its a feature - IIRC the generator wouldn't charge the battery below a certain rpm, and 1600 rpm sounds about right. Since on the Fw 190 most systems, including the landing gear are electronically actuated, its no surprise the gear will struggle once the battery is depleted due to heavy use and no charge.....

 

It seems gentlemen that we have ourselves a lovely, lovely little detail.

The battery is not recharged at 2400 RPM.

I quote myself:

"A following 30 min flight at 2400RPM and no additional use of electrical components(only switched on) the battery doesn´t recover to a state where it can provide enough voltage for the FuG16"

My whole aeronautical experience tells me that this is not intended.

If Yo-Yo or an ED Tester tells me that it is indeed intended, then I would scrach my head but I would believe them and get serious doubts in Kurt Tank´s engineering.

Landed wheels up last night, thinking, well I'm sure I pressed the button and heard them start to down. On the debrief screen first unusual thing is battery solenoid fault, then lists almost complete shutdown of electrics. I'd been doing takeoff/landings and the previous landing was slightly bumpy. Banged the tail down hard so maybe this thing is an effect of that?

Maybe in your case. But as I mentioned two ways discharging the battery: I took off and flew 30 minutes around. Not touch and go. During these 30 minutes I lowered and raised the L/G and the flaps while idling the engine and gliding.

This "problem" shows me how detailed the Dora is modeled. I love this level of detail. It is fantastic.

Interesting post..

I dont know enough about the Dora to make any real statements but in general aviation terms, the generator needs to create enough power to recharge the battery up to optimum state.

But its a Dora, and I would not be surprised if the generator wasnt able to keep up with your stress test. the dora its not meant to be electrically forced like that.

multiple landing gear and flaps cycles at low RPM may be enough to drain the battery so low that your GEN may need more than 20 min to recharge.

remember at LOW rpm no GEN power its produced (well not enough) so doing electrical stress test at low rpm its going to affect your battery, and without knowing the GEN output voltage or recharge power.. it may take longer than 20 min, or even, the battery can be totally damaged from this stress.

My question here are..

This happens if LG and flaps cycle at high RPM? (with GEN working)

Since I couldn't find the handbook part 9B for checking the electrical power source, I made a way around that problem.

Looking into the Jumo 213 Engine manual, it can be fitted with 2 generators with 3000W. Rotation ratio is 2x the engine RPM with max. 10 PS (hp).

In the Bf 109 K-4 and the Fw 190 A-5/A-6 Is the Bosch generator FL 34218-1 fitted.

Output: 2000W 29V +/-0,5V DC at 4000-6000 RPM (generator RPM)

By looking into the Ta 152 H-0 handbook part 9B we have:

Engine: Jumo 213 E

Generator: 2000W 29V +/-0,5V DC

Battery: 20Ah 24V

With this we can also assume a 2000W generator for the Fw 190 D-9.

Electrical loads (from the Ta 152 H-0 handbook):

Constant loads:

position lights, lights: 95W

Pitot heating, heating clothes: 190W

canopy glass heating: 410W

observation (instruments): 15W

fuel pumps: 300W

radio: 530W

compass-system: 15W

art. horizon: 45W

meassuring system: 20W

= 1620W constant load

short loads:

engine starter: 350W

elevator trim: 220W

MW-system: 35W

Signal-Device: 100W

aiming and photo device: 100W

MG 151 arming: 1600W(only for 2,7sec at arming) and shooting: 300W

MK 108(engine) 100W

= 1205W

Conclusion:

Keep the engine above 2000 RPM for loading the battery.

Since I couldn't find the handbook part 9B for checking the electrical power source, I made a way around that problem.

 

Looking into the Jumo 213 Engine manual, it can be fitted with 2 generators with 3000W. Rotation ratio is 2x the engine RPM with max. 10 PS (hp).

 

In the Bf 109 K-4 and the Fw 190 A-5/A-6 Is the Bosch generator FL 34218-1 fitted.

Output: 2000W 29V +/-0,5V DC at 4000-6000 RPM (generator RPM)

 

By looking into the Ta 152 H-0 handbook part 9B we have:

Engine: Jumo 213 E

Generator: 2000W 29V +/-0,5V DC

Battery: 20Ah 24V

 

With this we can also assume a 2000W generator for the Fw 190 D-9.

 

Electrical loads (from the Ta 152 H-0 handbook):

Constant loads:

position lights, lights: 95W

Pitot heating, heating clothes: 190W

canopy glass heating: 410W

observation (instruments): 15W

fuel pumps: 300W

radio: 530W

compass-system: 15W

art. horizon: 45W

meassuring system: 20W

= 1620W constant load

 

short loads:

engine starter: 350W

elevator trim: 220W

MW-system: 35W

Signal-Device: 100W

aiming and photo device: 100W

MG 151 arming: 1600W(only for 2,7sec at arming) and shooting: 300W

MK 108(engine) 100W

= 1205W

 

Conclusion:

Keep the engine above 2000 RPM for loading the battery.

I was going to bring up the arming of the weapons also as a possible battery draining device along with the gun sight. One of the first things I see start flicking are those red lights by the ammo counter. Battle damage seems to like getting the generator pretty often affecting everything else and I'd imagine hard landings could have an effect. Shouldn't really see the battery going down just flying around at a acceptable rpm unless this was a poorly designed part of the Dora.

Don't know if this is a bug, and didn't test this, but to add to this topic.

WWII tech, as previously posted uses DC generators, which are in fact dynamos. They increase output with RPM, unlike AC generators (alternators) like ones in our cars, which can output max power almost at idle (but increase load on the engine).

Regarding possible bug, 2400 RPM should supply enough and even charge the battery, as Kodoss said. Unless there is some power leak we don't know about.

Thinking Wags start up proceedure might need revising? Switch on as little as possible (fuel pumps, instruments only?), before the engine is running and even then on the ground just switch on only what's required. In the air generator output should be greater than consumption other than for brief periods but would need to see amps v rpm graph, assuming constant voltage over say, 1000 rpm.

Interesting. Maybe someone could ask Erich Brunotte about the real-life start up procedure of the Dora....? :)

Well, I did another test flight.

This time I departed from Mozdok. Standard start up except for pitot heating CB out, taxiing to the runway, line up, pitot heating CB in and after take off inbound Kutaisi/Kolki.

Take Off at ~12:07

I did nothing but flying. No L/G down and up, no flaps down and up, no EZ42/Guns armed. Only radio calls from time to time.

Engine ~2400RPM or greater. Only once or twice idleing the engine for a few seconds.

Generator CB was basically in during the flight.

Test procedure:

Calling ATC

- If successful, then generator CB out, call again.

- If successful --> Battery has enough voltage for the FuG16, generator CB in

- If not successful --> Battery voltage is to low for FuG16, generator CB in

Video:

~ 12:20 Generator CB out, the radio is working on battery.

~ 12:50 Generator CB out, the battery can not supply the FuG16. Notice the drop in lighting intensity when Generator CB is out.

I am certain that this is a bug. Something is draining the battery AND the generator does not re-charge it.

Fox

Every now and then i had flickering cockpit illumination and broken radio transmissions. First I thought it was network lag. Then I considered it as a simple bug.

I think the battery isn´t charged by the generator. Unfortunately there is no voltage indicator.

 

One way to reproduce it is flying at least half an hour performing take offs and landings in short succession. Normally lowering the L/G at low to idle RPM, but raising it at RPM well above 2000. Or flying around and within 30 minutes 10x lowering and raising the landing gear and flaps while idling the engine below 1400RPM.

 

----------------------snipped----------------------

 

I was on the DoW server tonight in MP, the Frog mission. I was flying fine. I dropped a bomb, then was taking out ground targets with the guns for 15 minutes. There was a lot of flak I was flying through and saw pieces of my aircraft chipping off, though no visual damage looking at the fuselage exterior in F2. About 30 minutes flight time the intermttent, flashing lights occurred. What I experienced was rapid flashing 4 times or so per second, continuous throughout.

I figure this intermittent, continuous, flashing of instrument lights, sporadic gun fire, guns not working steadily when the trigger is squeezed, and ATC radio chatter coming to me broken up RTB is part of the damage model?

I am figuring the generator got damaged. Engine was running 3,000 RPM no problem.

The exterior lights I turned on when approaching the airfield were steady on, they were not flashing like the instrument cockpit lights.

I am wondering if there is an in cockpit workaround to fix it? But I think it is part of the damage model.

I did not attempt a repair as I crashed upon landing. Gear and flaps came down OK.

I have flown the Dora many times, 50 or so sorties, all altitudes. I either use the automatic start-up cheat or I cold start as the Quicky Manual instructs. First time I have seen this issue.

Separately:

What is the electric kill-switch for on the left side console?

Just now, I was on the Elite server, I had the FW idling on the ramp at minimum speed while I went off to eat lunch with my wife. Came back about an hour later, long lunch, to find my instrument lights flashing, quickly, intermittently, on-off-on-off, etc. I upped the engine rpm to just 1,000 rpm and the lights came back steady on.

So, at 1,000 rpm idling on the ramp I had steady instrument lights on. I switched the CB (circuit breaker) for the generator to off and the flashing, intermittent instruments lights returned. Switched the generator back on, same rpm, steady instrument lights returned.

Did same as previous paragraph, but switched the battery CB to off and got the instrument lights to go out, no lights on.

So, this intermittent, flashing, instrument lights scenario seems to be caused by the generator when not enough engine rpm's to spin the generator fast enough to its minimum operating speed.

Combat damage to some component of the generator or its wiring causes the same situation even at 3,000 rpm.

I did not try using the radio to ATC, but I bet the radio transmission received would be broken up at minimum speed idling on the tarmac half hour to an hour.

Just my observation.

So I guess it would be nice of the devs to add a battery replacement option for ground crew to perform ;) Or do I need to connect groung power, set parking brakes, and leave engine running at 2000 rpm for some time for the battery to get recharged? Anyway, it's a really nice detail which I just experienced during prolonged flight and a need to midair engine start after some unthought maneuvers :D

The battery is there to start the engine and nothing else! Correct start proceedure should be something like, open large switch panel on the right and press only the first two buttons... power lever to idle start, mags both on, fuel pump lever fully up. On the small switch panel depress only the two fuel pump buttons (the two after C1), lift start switch cover, push big button under the clock to start second hand, press start button for 20-25 secs, lift start button and start. Once engine is running and warmed up switch in the rest of the buttons on the main panel plus whatever.

Do not use the radio without the engine being at least at 2400 rpm. NEVER use it without the engine running. The battery can supply about 300 watts in total, radio in transmit mode uses 560w (from memory), you can do the maths, and result's not good.

The red gun lights can be used as a crude generator output indicator, when the lights are glowing brightly it's putting out 2 to 3kw, more than enough for all the toys.

Raise your flaps just before take off with engine running at 2400 rpm while holding the plane with the foot brakes, likewise contact ATC at same time whilst the generator is pumping it out, that way there should be no drain on the battery. Exactly when (what rpm) the dynamo puts out full voltage I don't know but 2400rpm or over should be ok.

Any one done any testing when an aircraft is damaged yet? I start shutting things off when ever I start noticing problems but have yet to do any real test to see if it worth it.

mh i dont know, i always see the battery getting lower and lower when i do some longer or multiple flights in one aircraft.after the first flight you can already see the gunsight and other light sources getting dimmer and dimmer...after the second flight the gunsight is hardly visible anymore and most of the time at one point its starting to flicker...at that point, you also have to pull the gun trigger in the correct moment or your guns wont fire(so often you have to pull it 2 or 3 times until your guns are actually working again)....all those little details really show the depth of this simulation...but i wonder wasnt the battery re-charged once the engine was running at reasonable rpm?

The battery is there to start the engine and nothing else! ...

I am sure that you are wrong, because that doesn´t make any sense. No engineer in his senses would create an aircraft that way. The battery is always an energy source in case of generator failure.

I´ll quote myself

So you say that a frontline Aircraft that has

electrically driven landing gear,

electrically driven flaps,

electrically driven horizontal stabilizer trim

and of course radio and IFF

has no need for the battery being recharged inflight?

The generator can not fail?

...

Addendum:

The guns won´t fire without electicity

...

The battery can supply about 300 watts in total, radio in transmit mode uses 560w (from memory), you can do the maths, and result's not good.

...

Math is no problem, but you are comparing apples and oranges.

300W as max. rated power output for the Battery? Or what do you mean?

The starter needs approx. 350W and is no problem for the battery.

Radio should need 530W as Kodoss stated, but I guess only while transmitting and not while receiving. Still no problem for the battery, as you can use it in game w/o engine running.

Perhaps you´re talking about energy?!

The battery has ~480Wh when fully charged. So it should be drained in ~54 minutes, by the radio alone if it needed 530W permanently.

But actually our DCS Dora´s battery it is drained within 20-30 minutes in this situation. And still: After one hour at 2400rpm with everything switched off except instrument lighting, even the fuel pumps were off during that testflight, the battery was just recharged to a level that it could provide power to the radio for only ~10 seconds.

...

... Exactly when (what rpm) the dynamo puts out full voltage I don't know but 2400rpm or over should be ok.

From 2000 engine rpm onwards 2kW @ 29V +/-0,5V are available.

Ingame the generator breaks in at ~1200 engine rpm, but that doesn´t mean it delivers enough power at that rpm. The engine has to be at 1600rpm+, only then it delivers enough power for the radio.

Fox

The improved Dora in DCS 1.2.12 looks nicer than before.

But unfortunately the electrics got worse.

After less than 15 minutes flying around the battery is depleted.

See the attached .trk.

Fox

Yeah, I can confirm that. With 1.2.12 I always deplete my battery in every flight.

I want to share here an issue i have posted in the Aries thread about Dora-Battery-Aries Software-Team Speak anti spam flood system.

link

I was doing a lot of test about Dora's battery and no matter how much time i will fly over 1600 RPM or using external ground power to start up the plane or even no use at all in flight the Revi sight, position lights or any other not essential electrical system. The battery gets depleted always and i'm not able to recharge it no matter what i do. Always below 1200 RPM i loose my radio and other systems.

Could somebody tell me if this is how the real plane was or this is a kind of bug or bad use i'm doing wrong?