Steering/braking: Current, simplified behaviour or realistic?

EDIT: To clarify, the question this poll poses is "Do you want an entry in the Special options menu which allows us to turn on a more realistic method of steering the aircraft?"

EDIT 2: A summary of the issue is this: IRL, you can't turn the plane at all without braking at the same time, at least until the rudder starts to get authority at fast taxiing. In the sim, we can turn using just the rudder, even at very low speeds, just as if we had had nosewheel steering. This is unrealistic.

Following a discussion, a consensus was reached that, according to the real literature, the current behaviour of braking and steering on the ground wasn't realistic. It turns out that this is intended, and that the decision to simplify the behaviour was taken due to tester feedback:

Thank you Flagrum,

 

steering is relaxed to support vast majority of casual players who described braking as "extremely complex" during myriad of tests with "realistic" breaking.

 

We had to do it.

I have a feeling that the vast majority of people here would like the realistic behaviour, so I'm starting this petition/poll to convince Leatherneck to at least give us that option.

I know there are many things LN have to work on at the moment, and this can easily wait until the more pressing issues are under control, but at some point I feel this needs to be sorted out.

We play DCS because it's the closest we can come to flying these aircraft. Even if a system IRL is terribly designed and a pain to use, we want it!

The poll question is ambiguous. "do you want simple or realistic" is not a yes/no question! :o)

Is it yes I want a realistic behaviour or yes I want a simplified behaviour? The poll question and answers are unclear.

The poll question is ambiguous. "do you want simple or realistic" is not a yes/no question! :o)

Is it yes I want a realistic behaviour or yes I want a simplified behaviour? The poll question and answers are unclear.

What? No it isn't. This poll is about an OPTION letting us choose between the settings "realistic" and "simplified", similar to the engine management option.

I'll edit for clarity though!

Is it yes I want a realistic behaviour or yes I want a simplified behaviour? The poll question and answers are unclear.

Heh, he is right, I think. Not "Yes, I want this" or "No, I don't want that" but rather "Yes, I want an OPTION!" ;o)

What? No it isn't. This poll is about an OPTION letting us choose between the settings "realistic" and "simplified", similar to the engine management option.

 

I'll edit for clarity though!

You got us. I guess, it is too late (early) and/or too much beer for me. ;o)

I read it again and now I got it. But since I wasn't the only one confused, it was probably a good idea to add that clarification. Voted yes :thumbup:.

Yeah, the thread title (as opposed to the poll title) is maybe what confused you. I agree that it's a bad title, but I can't edit it, sadly. Maybe a friendly moderator could affix "option" right before the question mark.

Wouldn't that require my pinky-switch to have an axis? I'm not too interested if so. I'd rather not put toe brakes on the mig as I prefer everything to be as close to where the real pilots would have it as possible.

Wouldn't that require my pinky-switch to have an axis? I'm not too interested if so. I'd rather not put toe brakes on the mig as I prefer everything to be as close to where the real pilots would have it as possible.

No, I don't think so. You'd still be able to turn like now, tightly under full braking. The only difference, I think, would be that the unrealistically good rudder authority/"nosewheel steering" we have now, under no braking at all, would be gone.

And also, I'm proposing this as an option.

No, I don't think so. You'd still be able to turn like now, tightly under full braking. The only difference, I think, would be that the unrealistically good rudder authority/"nosewheel steering" we have now, under no braking at all, would be gone.

 

And also, I'm proposing this as an option.

Well if that's the case I'm all for the realism. I brake to turn either way.

It is realistic already

Read the discussion thread and the Dolphin quotation.

I want it real, but I could live with an option (set server side in MP) for those who want to play games ;)

I also want it realistic!

The biggest problem I have found with MiG21 braking was getting used with the Sabre braking and switching to Mig21... After doing this a few times a lot of misses happens. Mixing it with a few FW190D9 flights and it gets really bad.

But... that's pilot error not module fault. And I think that making it realistic will bring it closer to FW190D9 behavior and closer with the automatism of braking to steer in Il-2 Sturmovik... And because there was no differential braking and I used pinkie to brake... it will be closer to keeping pinkie pressed to steer in Sabre and thus... peace will ensue in the mind when steering :D .

I want simplified steering as an option. I can live with the current implementation for a while, it's not urgent.

I've been using the analog stick on a dual sho9ck controller for all planes with a brake lever on the stick. Works quite well but the curve has to be edited to use it properly as the duel shock stick is centred in the middle.

A difficulty option down the line is probably a good idea, though I agree that it isn`t a very pressing issue. The realistic option will only be usable by people putting the brakes on an axis, sice you will not want to go into full breakes to keep controll when taxiing straight. I intend to keep the brakes on the pinky switch on my stick for the sake of authenticy, so I will probably have to stick to the simplified method.

Even if a system IRL is terribly designed and a pain to use, we want it!

I would like to single out this quote if I may do so.I do not think the breaking system is terribly designed and a pain to use at all, IF you are using a MiG-21 controll columne that allows to apply small amounts of breaking pressure. The problem arises when you start to apply the MiG-21 mechanics to our gaming hardware.

With a suitably gradual onset of braking when you are not using an axis it should be possible to steer by using a non-analogue brake. Also it's quite possible to have the brakes on an axis if you bind it to one of your toe brakes on the pedals many of us have. Actually in this kind of cases I would like the both toe brakes to work so that the amount of braking would be determined by whichever brake is pushed down harder. Thus it would in practice still be a lot like regular toe brakes. Not completely realistic, but we're not in a real plane anyway, there are few sticks around with analog brake levers in them and probably fewer people willing to change the hardware every time they jump into a different plane so smart compromises can be very useful.

BTW, Who were these casuals that were testing this before release.

Voted for realistic option.

I want to do it like Dolphin887 did it.

:)

Realistic 99.999% (i don't mind the camgun switch though).

I want to add that the fact you can steer without braking most of the time makes it more difficult to steer when you need to brake (at slow speeds). Because of this the nose wheel has a tendency to turn backwards making the turns a "ox piss" (pardon the expression).

Voted "Yes". I don't see any harm in the option being there, it wouldn't be unlike having auto rudder options that are in some modules.

I would like to single out this quote if I may do so.I do not think the breaking system is terribly designed and a pain to use at all, IF you are using a MiG-21 controll columne that allows to apply small amounts of breaking pressure. The problem arises when you start to apply the MiG-21 mechanics to our gaming hardware.

Exactly this.

And this.

A difficulty option down the line is probably a good idea, though I agree that it isn`t a very pressing issue. The realistic option will only be usable by people putting the brakes on an axis, sice you will not want to go into full breakes to keep controll when taxiing straight. I intend to keep the brakes on the pinky switch on my stick for the sake of authenticy, so I will probably have to stick to the simplified method.