MW 50 always on?

So I sense that I am doing something wrong, but ill ask anyway.

So with everything set to auto, I press the E key to engage MW50. However, it seems to be already engaged no matter what I do. When I start my flight, I am already at 1.8ata simply by advancing the throttle. Press E, nothing, which makes sense seeing as I am already doing 1.8ata and 2850rpm. So I checked my fuel next, and sure enough, I have MW50 in the tank. Is this a bug or am I not doing something right, because my plane flys at MW50 power no matter what I push.

I would say the same, always connect MW50.

I am trying the tank loaded with fuel and selector in krafstoff and I have 1.8 ATA too.

Whats yor MW50 pressure guage indicating when going into emergency mode?

Ok so Ive narrrowed this down a bit. Pressing E moves the switch, and the pressure guage moves quite a bit. However, the ata's remain the same at 1.8. RPM however, moves ever so slightly and I do see a performance difference. I dont know if the gauge is bugged or what. I ran some speed tests and got pretty accurate results with and without Mw50 engaged so the power is certainly there. However, I can crank the ata all the way up to 1.8 without it engaged. I think the gauge is just bugged though because i dont go nearly as fast with the MW50 disengaged.

ok I dont know for sure but

The MW shoudnt limit the ATA under 1.8

MW function its as an antidetonant and coolant.

ATA will always be able to reach 1.8 but with MW50 off it will get extremly hot and not be able to obtain the extra 500Hp.

So pushing the thorttle above 1.4 ata without MW50 its a bad Idea

Yeah I think the gauge is just broken, because with it off, I cant fly around forever without the engine imploding and the performance is less. The aircraft seems to fly correctly though when you shift from one state to the other.

As i understand correctly without MW50 enabled maximum ATA should be 1.4 Ata at 2600 RPMs ( like in earlier version of DB605) and only using MW50 could rise ATA to 1.8 ATA.

Without MW50 and B4 fuel it shouldn't be possible to got 1.8 Ata - only 1.4Ata

http://kurfurst.org/Engine/DB60x/DB605_datasheets_DB.html

Something like these:

If C-3 (German 150 grade) fuel is used in DCS, the DB 605DB could go up to 1.8 ata and ca 1800 PS without MW-50... C-3 could rather easily do it, though there would be no charge- and internal cooling of MW-50, so things like spark plugs and thermal load might still get interesting.

But technically it is possible to run the 605DB/DC series w/o MW-50 at 1,8 - but it requires the high grade fuel to do so. Without C-3 and relying on 87 octane B-4 fuel intead the max. without MW-50 was 1,50 ata, after that detonation.

I am not sure though if the MW enabling switch did much aside from activating the MW pump - that is, if it effected the throttle at all. I believe it only switched on the MW pump, and the throttle closed the circuit when pushed past 100% (i.e. the 30 min ratigs, Kampfleistung), so the engine did have MW injection at 100%+ regimes, but the throttle can be opened wide regardless - and possibly enabling boost levels to be used that would came with the danger of knocking etc. (B-4: 1,5ata+, C-3: 1,8ata+)

Besides MW-50 was a funny thing because its charge cooling properties meant that it even increased power at the same boost levels, by roughly 50-100 PS, so even at higher altitudes above rated altitude of the supercharger.

From DCs K-4 manual:

Engine Ratings: Operating Condition RPM ATA Max Time

WEP (MW-50) 2,800 ± 50 1.75 ± 0.01 10

Take-Off and WEP - - -

Combat 2,600 ± 50 1.35 ± 0.01 * 30

Cruise 2,400 ± 65 1.25 ± 0.01

Continuous Economy 2,000 ± 80 1.05 ± 0.01 Continuous

*) During climb boost pressure may be regulated during climb by a further 0.03 ATA to between 1.31 and 1.39 ATA.

Note: With the MW-50 system installed, normal Take-Off and Emergency Power is no longer attainable. Combat mode should be used instead.

Production K-4s were often powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605DB or DC engine. The DB could use B4 fuel which, with MW 50 Methanol Water injection equipment, generated an emergency power rating of 1,600 PS at 6,000 m (1,160 PS maximum continual at 6,600 m), and take-off power of 1,850 PS at 0 m, with a maximum supercharger boost of 1.8 ATA. The DB could also be run on higher octane C3 fuel, but use of MW 50 was forbidden. The DC, which was reinforced internally, could also run on B4 or C3 fuel and could generate a potential 2,000 PS, but only when using C3 fuel with MW 50 and a boost of 1.98 ATA, otherwise the power rating was similar to that of the DB.

The DCS Bf 109 K-4 is modeled with the DB 605 DB engine.

Looks that it is B-4 fuel version modeled.

Unfortunately the DCS K-4 manual is, in a lot of parts, wrong, the worst part is probably where it states the 109K had a 250 liter fuel tank.. and to make it worse part you qouted a straight copy of wikipedia (in fact much of the description is), and this particular section of wikipedia has been edited by a member who had intentionally introproduced some false information into it.

The 605DB could either run on C-3 or B-4 according to its manual, the DC only on C-3. Though I believe in the end they decided against the former combination (the reason being unknown, probably it was a waste since in DC configuration with the same fuel it would produce 200 more Ps anyway)

As i understand correctly without MW50 enabled maximum ATA should be 1.4 Ata at 2600 RPMs ( like in earlier version of DB605) and only using MW50 could rise ATA to 1.8 ATA.

 

Without MW50 and B4 fuel it shouldn't be possible to got 1.8 Ata - only 1.4Ata

 

http://kurfurst.org/Engine/DB60x/DB605_datasheets_DB.html

 

...

 

Something like these:

You are perfectly right(okay, not 100%: 1,45ata:D).

Fox

As far as I can tell it is exceeding 1.45 ata without any negative affects without the MW50 activated. When it is on, it goes faster, but aside from testing it in tacview to verify that the only in-cockpit indication of the increased performance is a minuscule increase in rpm. Without turning on the Mw50, ive flown around for an hour at "1.8 ata" but the plane is about 15-20mph slower like this. With the pumps on, the plane goes much faster etc, but not even the sound of the engine changes to indicate increased power. regardless of the MW being on or off, I the guage reads 1.8ata with the throttle full forward.

Thats very odd USARStarkey, I have no idea what causes it. I had a bit of time to fool around with it. The fuel is listed as B-4 type, so we deal with the Blue 87/93 octane variant, so I believe somewhere between 1,5-1,8ata manifold there probably should be some knocking eventually leading to engine damage. Evidently there isn't which would either indicate something is not right or that the fuel is more like the green C-3 variant of 96/145 performance rating, so no engine damage and really no difference wheter MW is on or off.

MW inejction gave a "bonus" of ca 3% horsepower output alone, but the engine output is of course 99% dependent on your boost (ata) and engine rpm.

That being said, the K-4 is a blast and climbs like a homesick angel. :)

Is there a way to get engine info like actual output listed during flight...?

I can see that the throttle (ata) is MW 50 switch independent, which seems right. Also MW 50 only engages above 1.45ata or so, which is also right.

The suspicious part is that USK has measured 20 mph or so speed difference, there can't be so much differnece at the same ata and rpm, mw-50 or not..

From Jean-Claude Mermet Messerschmitt Bf 109G-1 through K-4 Engines and Fittings

The power ratings are wrong in that Mermet should have used PS, not hp as the unit - 1 PS = 0.9863 hp, thus the ratings are:

2,000 PS = 1,973 hp (rounded up)

1,850 PS = 1,825 hp (rounded up)

1,800 PS = 1,775 hp

1,600 PS = 1,578 hp

1,430 PS = 1,410 hp

1,370 PS = 1,351 hp

1,285 PS = 1,267 hp

1,160 PS = 1,144 hp

1,120 PS = 1,105 hp (rounded up)

1,100 PS = 1,085 hp (rounded up)

From my conversations with Yo-Yo, it doesnt seem there is an issue here.

Great.. but a little more explanation on how the system works will be very welcome

From what I've heard (a long time ago), the late 109's throttle system normally operated up to 1.45 ata manifold pressure, and gave normal variable engine power up to that pressure, just as you'd expect from any engine's throttle. The throttle lever would stop at 1.45 ata, and that was full normal power.

To go above that, the pilot had to apply substantial pressure to force the throttle all the way forward, and the manifold pressure would jump up to 1.80 ata. There was no variable throttle control from 1.45 up to 1.80 ata; it just went up all of a sudden and that was emergency power. The pilot had to enable the MW50 system before doing this, if he didn't, there was no water-methanol mix in the intake air to cool the charge and detonation would destroy the engine, hence the throttle stop at 1.45 ata which required deliberate force to move past.

Forcing the throttle past the 1.45 ata stop with MW50 turned off is possible, and will give the full 1.80 ata manifold pressure, but in real life it would not produce max power and would wreck the engine. In the DCS 109 it appears to simply produce less power, but you'll notice the jump from 1.45 to 1.80 ata pressure with no variable control is modelled correctly. Also, the MW50 system does not inject the water-alcohol mixture at 1.45 ata or below (the MW50 pressure gauge needle drops to zero) even with the MW50 system enabled with the switch.

So, enable MW50 when starting the plane on the ground, and leave it turned on all the time when flying. The MW50 system will only inject fluid and permit maximum power when you push the throttle open all the way to 1.80 ata. Otherwise, at 1.45 or below, it doesn't use up your MW50 mixture.

Peace

A D

From what I've heard (a long time ago), the late 109's throttle system normally operated up to 1.45 ata manifold pressure, and gave normal variable engine power up to that pressure, just as you'd expect from any engine's throttle. The throttle lever would stop at 1.45 ata, and that was full normal power.

 

To go above that, the pilot had to apply substantial pressure to force the throttle all the way forward, and the manifold pressure would jump up to 1.80 ata. There was no variable throttle control from 1.45 up to 1.80 ata; it just went up all of a sudden and that was emergency power. The pilot had to enable the MW50 system before doing this, if he didn't, there was no water-methanol mix in the intake air to cool the charge and detonation would destroy the engine, hence the throttle stop at 1.45 ata which required deliberate force to move past.

 

Forcing the throttle past the 1.45 ata stop with MW50 turned off is possible, and will give the full 1.80 ata manifold pressure, but in real life it would not produce max power and would wreck the engine. In the DCS 109 it appears to simply produce less power, but you'll notice the jump from 1.45 to 1.80 ata pressure with no variable control is modelled correctly. Also, the MW50 system does not inject the water-alcohol mixture at 1.45 ata or below (the MW50 pressure gauge needle drops to zero) even with the MW50 system enabled with the switch.

 

So, enable MW50 when starting the plane on the ground, and leave it turned on all the time when flying. The MW50 system will only inject fluid and permit maximum power when you push the throttle open all the way to 1.80 ata. Otherwise, at 1.45 or below, it doesn't use up your MW50 mixture.

 

Peace

A D

thanks for the clarification. I'll leave the switch on, henceforth. Good info.

-Jav

If C-3 (German 150 grade) fuel is used in DCS, the DB 605DB could go up to 1.8 ata and ca 1800 PS without MW-50... C-3 could rather easily do it, though there would be no charge- and internal cooling of MW-50, so things like spark plugs and thermal load might still get interesting.

 

But technically it is possible to run the 605DB/DC series w/o MW-50 at 1,8 - but it requires the high grade fuel to do so. Without C-3 and relying on 87 octane B-4 fuel intead the max. without MW-50 was 1,50 ata, after that detonation.

 

I am not sure though if the MW enabling switch did much aside from activating the MW pump - that is, if it effected the throttle at all. I believe it only switched on the MW pump, and the throttle closed the circuit when pushed past 100% (i.e. the 30 min ratigs, Kampfleistung), so the engine did have MW injection at 100%+ regimes, but the throttle can be opened wide regardless - and possibly enabling boost levels to be used that would came with the danger of knocking etc. (B-4: 1,5ata+, C-3: 1,8ata+)

 

Besides MW-50 was a funny thing because its charge cooling properties meant that it even increased power at the same boost levels, by roughly 50-100 PS, so even at higher altitudes above rated altitude of the supercharger.

We have B4 fuel in the game. Go to the last tab in mission editor and there you can change the content of the additional tank. You can choose between. :

Empty

MW50

B4 Gasoline

So if it is B4 fuel model, should it run at 1.5 ATA max? Do we have B4 modeled like C3?

 

So if it is B4 fuel model, should it run at 1.5 ATA max?

No, that would only be in the absence of MW50.