Mi-8 rudder trim error

I have flown the Mi-8 on Nevada several hours now and one thing I noticed with the Mi-8 seems to be a bug ( or not, as I am the only one having this issue apparently ).

I have made double sure that there are NO double axis entries, no double button, no double anything in the config, no rudder trim ( been toggling on/off few times with OK inbetween to maybe fix it ).

Whenever I trim cyclic my rudder gets very very offset, offset to the point where full rudder will not even center the pedals anymore. What is left to do is hit CTRL-T in flight to recenter rudder, fiddle with the stick to catch the nose that banks up...and keep on flying until I accidently hit Trim again, which I refused to do yesterday night, yes, you can fly the Mi-8 successfully with no trimming, it's a pain sometimes but it works.

I have no idea where this behaviour comes from, I double and tripple checked controls, settings under extra, etc...

anyone else having this issue ?

I really really do not want to delete all of my modules config files and start over, meanwhile I have 3 x DCS instrallations on my disk and I own all but 1 module...so I spend a good amount of time not flying but servicing my AC in the hangar...aka...program my knobs, switches and what not else. SO if it can be fixed without trashing my Hotas files..that would be great

Bit

I shall add, I dont use rudder trim, it is set to OFF but somehow not really turned off.

I may do a track soon if that helps and desired.

Do you have the heading AP turned on?

If the AP runs out of authority it will start trimming the actual 'rudder' pedals.

Do you get the same effect with the heading AP turned off?

I will make double sure it's turned off and while I do that I make a trackfile if it still happens when it is actually turned off.

In an air start my rudder pedals are way off centre this is a new issue but unsure how new. I normally do take off cold starts

I think we would be able to figure out all these recent Mi-8 control issues if someone from dev team jumped in and explained once and for all how two new special options -"central position trimmer" (or whatever it's called) and "rudder trimmer" actually work.

I use an FFB stick & so don't use that option, but my understanding Central position trimmer is where you trim by defecting the stick to where the flight path is as desired, pushing and holding the trim button then returning the stick to centre, then releasing the trimmer button. That centre point is now effectively the point of deflection that you started trimming at.

Your stick is centred, the SIM stick is where you trimmed it to.

Rudder trimmer means that the rudder is 'trimmed' when you trim. With it off, the rudder isn't trimmed, and so will always point there you have them pointing with your pedals or twist grip - ie will return to centre if you centre the pedals. If it's on it reacts like the central trimmer option above, your pedals / throttle twist are centred, but the SIM pedals are where you trimmed them to.

if you use the heading autopilot channel you are not required to move the pedals as the autopilot will trim the pedals based on current flight parameters.

Once the small N symbol appears on the heading autopilot display, the autopilot is then actually actuating the rudder pedal element and you can see the pedal move. This all provided you are not touching your pedals.

This causes confusion because you are not moving the pedals yourself, your real life pedals are still centered and the virtual counterpart has been offset.

If, at any time, you decide to use the pedals, some quirks will turn up where you cannot use full deflection or enough deflection to get the helicopter to do what you intended.

The only way to counter this is to keep watch on the heading autopilot indicator and if you see it move to the left or right side, deflect the pedal yourself. It will reset the heading autopilot channel (seen by the fact that the white bar will be centered) and pause the autopilot channel (the white bar is centered and doesn't move) until you let go of the pedals once again and are on a steady heading.

The other option is to fully reset the trim. I don't know if there's a way to reset pedal trim only.

^ We know how the yaw AP mode works. The problem is, BitMaster claims the rudder pedals get trimmed even when yaw AP is turned off.

I can't fly now to check whether that's the case in 1.5 and 2.0, but I'm curious about possibility of a bug over here.

For what i understand the YAW AP channel is like a YAW Hold function.

With Yaw AP ON, green light ON you trim in a heading from hover and then relase the trim button. The Mi-8 stays in this heading. If you apply a little rudder to the left and then release the rudder, the Mi-8 returns to the last trimmed heading. The same to the right.

With Yaw AP OFF starting from a neutral hover and trimmed in this heading, if you apply rudder to the left or right and then release the rudder, the Mi-8 doesn´t return to the last trimmed heading by itself.

So it´s not the same with AP on or off.

The trim in yaw axis works with AP ON or OFF, the rudder keeps trimmed in the position you had left the rudder to the left or right but with AP ON when you press again the rudder without trimming again, you have the last heading memorized and the Mi-8 will return to it by itself inside the AP limits.

With AP Off, the Mi-8 is not going to return to the last memorized heading.

Tested in 2.0

bitmaster, I have seen the problem since the good old 1.2xx days. It occurs regardless of yaw AP being off... I generally never use the yaw AP unless doing really long flights.

I also have rudder trim off.

Re-trimming does not cure the problem.

Hitting the trim reset cures the problem and can be done in flight as the MI-8 has a nice slow and weighty reaction to trim changes.

I checked again and I must have been wrong !

The Autopilot must have been engaged and kept trimming the rudder with me being totally blind to the situation !!!

Now that I am aware of the ( new ) behaviour of the rudder channel I am not able to reproduce it when operating the aircraft properly :)

Thank's for this clarification. I was used to a rudder channel that totally stepped out and kept turned off when the pilot applied too much rudder ( if I remember correctly ! ) and thought it still

works this way, well...it is obvious that it wont step out when the pilot uses rudder at any extend but fights back as soon as you release the pedals. While you move the pedals the AP-Rudder green-light turns off for as long as you move the rudders out of mechanical neutral position and jumps right back in ( lid green ON ) when back to neutral. I think that was not the case before, correct me if I am wrong here.

I am finally getting betetr with the Mi-8, weapons usually work ( not that it is the Mi not wanting, my brain fails with those buttons, switches and all in russian LoL )....slowly...next will be this miracle thing I still have to master called IFR and following beacons etc... for that I need to join a squad and tab the multi-brain of the net....alone this would take longer than I have left on this planet I guess haha :)

Bit

bitmaster, I have seen the problem since the good old 1.2xx days. It occurs regardless of yaw AP being off... I generally never use the yaw AP unless doing really long flights.

I also have rudder trim off.

Re-trimming does not cure the problem.

 

Hitting the trim reset cures the problem and can be done in flight as the MI-8 has a nice slow and weighty reaction to trim changes.

I could not reproduce it on my last few flights as described above but I still give it a 5% chance of being a random ( or hard to trigger ) misbehaviour of the controls.

We will stay tuned now so when it comes back we can analyse it much better and check if it related to some other circumstance, whatever that might be.

*** I am ( was ) pretty sure I used the AP correctly when I had the failure but since I could not reproduce it last few flights when doing it all correctly I have to assume ( for now ) that it was error 405... ERROR IN FRONT OF SCREEN ;) shit happens and I can admit that

It only happened on 1 occasion..aka...1 boot of the rig, one start of the OS ..etc...

I have seen many many ..uncountable... thibgs that only showed randomly...went away the same miracle way they came....big eyes....no answers....and some acceptance that you just cant get behind everything as it is beyond complex, its myriads of combinations and anyone can cause it.

Sometimes, it is far better, to lean back, relax and just watch the game happening as it unfolds and many symptoms just go away by themsleves as time goes by and surrounding and circumstances change...all by itself. You could ahve struggled as hard as you wished you could and would not have got it done any time faster....that is how life often comes along from my perspective.

...do I have a philosophical mood ?

I am finally getting betetr with the Mi-8, weapons usually work ( not that it is the Mi not wanting, my brain fails with those buttons, switches and all in russian LoL )....slowly...next will be this miracle thing I still have to master called IFR and following beacons etc... for that I need to join a squad and tab the multi-brain of the net....alone this would take longer than I have left on this planet I guess haha :)

 

Bit

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2591768&postcount=1

And our Mi-8 Steam group

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DCSMi-8

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2591768&postcount=1

 

And our Mi-8 Steam group

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DCSMi-8

Thanks for the tip Cibit,

I have already applied on both links a few days ago and am currently waiting for their reply :)

Slingloads are another thing to master that I havent payed much attention too yet.

The more the missions develop the more interesting those soft functions get as they can dramatically increase the fun part ;)

Well your definitely in the members list for the steam group:)

Hi all !

I have the same kind of problem: When using heading AP, I turn, and when on the desired course, I trim the helo, I release the rudder pedals, yaw AP light comes back to on and AP maintains set heading. And sometimes, I turn, I apply rudder pedals to coordinate the turn, when on desired course I trim the helo, release the pedals, and then the pedals act as they were trimmed, and helo keeps yawing towards previously set heading.

Did I miss something concerning the use of yaw autopilot ? I precise that the yaw trimmer is unchecked in my options