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Disable VR cursor-headset lock when Use Mouse enabled


Tailhook

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Please remove the 'lock' between the VR/mouse cursor and the headset when 'Use Mouse" is enabled. When enabled, the blue VR cursor SHOULD NOT move around with headset movement. Currently, we have to look straight at the button or switch and keep our head stationary while moving the mouse to click, or else the headset will drag the mouse away from the button/switch. Having to fight between the two different cursors with this override lock in VR is frustrating, especially during a battle.

 

 

Edit: To make it more simple... Let us choose between Headset Cursor or Mouse Cursor. Choosing one disables the other.


Edited by Tailhook
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I think I like this too. I'd have to try it but if the mouse could be attached to the cockpit model and kinda "float" across it without moving when you move your head I think it would be better.

 

 

Another idea if the devs are worried about us losing our mouse cursors would be to do something similar to ARMA where the cursor freely moves inside a bounding box and only gets dragged as the edges of that box gets to where the mouse is at. That box could even be the screen size... just don't move the mouse cursor with head movement until the edge of the screen gets to where the mouse cursor was left. In this way we would also never lose track of the mouse cursor as it would always either be on screen where we left it or at the trailing edge of our view if we had just looked far enough away from where we left it.

 

 

In case it's unclear... this would essentially work the opposite way that edge scroll works in something like an RTS game... but instead of the mouse moving the screen when the cursor gets to the edge... the edge of the screen would move the mouse cursor when the edge of the screen gets to the mouse.

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I've been thinking about this issue for some time, and I think I've come up with a viable solution: Virtual Pilot's Hand - Mouse Pointer as a Cockpit Device

 

What do you think?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System Specs.

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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That would be great, but only if the mouse cursor movement through different 3d planes and its easyness in manipulating knobs remain unchanged. If, in order to obtain cursor unlock, the mouse has to become like the vr mouse of x-plane 11, it's better to keep all as it is now.

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How about this (just thinking out loud); The cursor is centered in the VR view, but when you move the mouse, it moves the cursor independently of the VR motion. Release the mouse, and after a "time out" period, the cursor centers on the VR view again.

 

That way the cursor is always centered where you are "looking", but free to move and be used when the mouse is moved, eliminating the need to keep your head still...

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How about this (just thinking out loud); The cursor is centered in the VR view, but when you move the mouse, it moves the cursor independently of the VR motion. Release the mouse, and after a "time out" period, the cursor centers on the VR view again.

 

That way the cursor is always centered where you are "looking", but free to move and be used when the mouse is moved, eliminating the need to keep your head still...

 

+1

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I actually like the ways it is right now. So instead of changing the behavior, I'd rather see it as as option.

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  • 2 weeks later...

+1

 

 

I have had the opportunity to try other flight sim, civil focused, with VR. Nothing compared with DCS, but the only thing I found way better was that.

 

 

I was able to click switches easily because I had full control over the mouse, I didn't have to look down (which IRL I wouldn't do) to press stuff, just move the mouse. And I could even look around while the cursor didn't move! Here I have to stare the switch I need to press, and I usually lose some valuable time until the cursos stops moving with my head

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The problem is, the mouse is a Windows object, and as a Windows object it stays in it's position within the Window (your entire monitor(s) when in full-screen mode), regardless of what's going on graphically behind the Mouse Pointer.

 

So if turning your view, either through moving your head while wearing a VR HMD or TrackIR "moves" the cockpit around the Window, the Mouse Pointer remains in it's position relative to the Window.

 

The only way to fix this is by having an entity, independent of the Window, which follows the cockpit, like a Virtual Hand. If you don't move the Virt. Hand, it remains in it's position relative to the cockpit.

 

You could make the Virt. Hand free moving, which means you would have to move it to the switch or dial, much the same as you would move your own hand. Or you could have it jump from one switch or dial to the next, always being locked onto one or the other, which might be easier to use, but ultimately it would be a question of preference.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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Yeah, this.

When 'Use Mouse' is enabled, the blue VR cursor should not move around with headset movement. Please, just give me the option to turn off the HMD steering of the cursor if I'm using mouse. It's difficult and sometimes frustrating to use when the two are coupled.


Edited by Irk26
rephrased something

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  • 2 months later...
  • 5 months later...

This issue is the only thing preventing me (and perhaps others?) from purchasing any aircrafts with clickable cockpits, which are the only viable options in VR (the only way some of us are interested in playing DCS), unless you want to voice a bunch of commands, which is far from ideal as well.

 

I don't think this is just a QoL modification. It's a bug by any software development standard. You can't be controlling a cursor two different ways at the same time, with both manners in conflict with each other to boot.

 

In my humble opinion, this issue shouldn't be downplayed and doesn't belong in a wishlist. It belongs in a report as a medium severity/priority bug.

 

Am I missing something?

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Yes, you're missing that it's not a bug. If you go on about it being a bug, and that ED is required to "fix" it, you will garner no supporters of the idea in ED. The mouse works perfectly as a mouse is supposed to work. The mouse in not moving unduly; the cockpit is actually moving relative to the display.

 

The issue is, that we need something other than a mouse pointer to operate the aircraft. Something that can be operated through a mouse, but which remains affixed to a position relative to the cockpit. Something like a virtual hand, or actually a a pair of virtual hands, so that if you do not move your mouse, you can move your head, and thus your visual window into the virtual cockpit, but the virtual hand will remain motionless relative to its position within the virtual cockpit.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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Yes, you're missing that it's not a bug. If you go on about it being a bug, and that ED is required to "fix" it, you will garner no supporters of the idea in ED. The mouse works perfectly as a mouse is supposed to work. The mouse in not moving unduly; the cockpit is actually moving relative to the display.

 

The issue is, that we need something other than a mouse pointer to operate the aircraft. Something that can be operated through a mouse, but which remains affixed to a position relative to the cockpit. Something like a virtual hand, or actually a a pair of virtual hands, so that if you do not move your mouse, you can move your head, and thus your visual window into the virtual cockpit, but the virtual hand will remain motionless relative to its position within the virtual cockpit.

 

 

Aaaah, that's what I was missing. Thanks! I re-read your earlier post and now I understand that it's not actually the HDM moving the mouse, but the mouse cursor is actually immobile on a 2d plane while the 3D view behind it shifts with head movement. It'll be unavoidable as long as the mouse remains outside of the 3D environment.

 

I still think it's a bug. It's just a complicated and controversial one. ;)

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Come to think of it, if hand tracking were to be implemented one day, that would be the ultimate solution! (as long as hands disapear when movement is detected on hotas, if you are using one, or else hand positioning would likely not match)


Edited by jrmichel2000
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you’ll forget about the moving mouse once you get sucked in to the immersion of startup and other processes. I find it as a feature, because I have to look down to where the buttons are anyways, and after I started clicking i use my head to click the next buttons. Head movement is more accurate than mouse. Just need to locate and put the mouse initially.

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Come to think of it, if hand tracking were to be implemented one day, that would be the ultimate solution! (as long as hands disapear when movement is detected on hotas, if you are using one, or else hand positioning would likely not match)

 

The problem is, that anything within reach of your hands in the real-world can 1. become a danger to you, if you forget that they are there in the real-world, and you try to reach through them, 2. they can block your access to sections of the cockpit, by the real-world obstacle preventing your virtual-hand from moving to those sections of the virtual-cockpit.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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you’ll forget about the moving mouse once you get sucked in to the immersion of startup and other processes. I find it as a feature, because I have to look down to where the buttons are anyways, and after I started clicking i use my head to click the next buttons. Head movement is more accurate than mouse. Just need to locate and put the mouse initially.

 

First off, it's unnatural for a mouse pointer to be locked to a stick protruding from the tip of your nose. When you look at something, lets say an input block for typing in number, you don't point at it with your nose. You turn your head to a comfortable position, from which your eyes can comfortably turn to look at it. You don't point your nose at it... ever.

 

My personal experience is that I can control a mouse pointer with my hand extremely accurately, but the pointer assigned to a stick on the end of my nose is always very jittery, to say the least. Besides, as noted above, it forces you into unnatural, uncomfortable body and head positions.

 

No, IMHO, it's not a feature, it's a bug... well not a bug, but it's very bad solution.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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The problem is, that anything within reach of your hands in the real-world can 1. become a danger to you, if you forget that they are there in the real-world, and you try to reach through them, 2. they can block your access to sections of the cockpit, by the real-world obstacle preventing your virtual-hand from moving to those sections of the virtual-cockpit.

 

Yep, the challenge remains the placement of things around you in the real world. However, in VR, you could still set things up so that there is generally nothing around you and only the joystick and throttle controls would be of concern. If you can set your flight stick between your legs somehow, chances are it won't conflict with anything in the virtual cockpit. (I'm not sure how I could have avoided all that innuendo). You might have to move it a little to access the ejection lever in some aircrafts.

 

The throttle's position would be more challenging since you would have to place it in a way that it wouldn't block any of the buttons around it in the cockpit, or somewhere out of the way that would still be comfortable for you. Regardless of where you would place both controllers, with virtual hand tracking, you would still have to "disappear" them once movement on either controller is detected, just so you don't have floaty hands not matching with stick and throttle animations and position in the virtual cockpit.


Edited by jrmichel2000
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You cannot expect the customer, on top of the exorbitant price of VR-gloves, to also have to rebuild his flight control setup to fit to a VR-glove solution.

 

Besides, it's an impossible task. For which cockpit should the customer create a new setup? Every aircraft has different cockpit dimensions. What about aircraft with a side-stick? What about helicopters?

 

No, that solution will never fly -- pun intended :D

 

A virtual hand, controlled by mouse, will not only open every customer to the solution, without having to do anything other than provide the use of a mouse from their flight-seat, but with a VR-hand, a very large number of customers could benefit from the implementation right out of the starting blocks, while requiring the least amount of change in their flying environment.

 

I believe that for very few customers, who don't currently have a mouse in their flying environment, it would be an insurmountable burden to acquire an inexpensive track-ball, which would take up very little room, to be able to benefit from a VR-hand.

 

A VR-hand would be a universal solution, available to every aircraft, right out of the box. I think it would have the greatest acceptance and positive impact on DCS customer, over every other solution I've heard about.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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  • 1 year later...

At very least, widen the invisible “bounding box” that the cursor seems to reside in. I point my head at, say, the right MFD, then hold perfectly still while positioning the mouse over whatever I want to click. It’s infuriating and takes way too long in the heat of a fight. Any head movement at all overrides the cursor position. I am actually a proponent of the cursor tracking with head movement, in that wherever you look the mouse should be readily available in front of you and not wherever you last left it, but it should be free to to move within the headset FOV.

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+1.

Very annoying feature this lock on to head.

 

Labels popping on when you don't need them around the hud because... oh... the mouse is there... No i't's not... you put it there now.

 

Clicking buttons on extremes of the cockpit is sometimes impossible because the mouse tries to jump to the nose.

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