Thinking of buying a new HOTAS

[Cali]

As the title says, which HOTAS....I'm thinking of buying a new one. I've had CH for the last 10+ years, I have tried several Cougars during that time and currently have a uber modded one. I want to hear from you guys the pros and cons of the list I name. I fly BMS, DCS A-10C, FC3 and DCS BS...ok here is the list

 

1. CH Fraken-Potato <----this is what I have now, it works great and has rotaries on the throttle.

 

2. TM Warthog

 

3. X-65F <---force sensing

 

4. uber Cougar <---try this again, it works great, I just hate foxy and need to mod the throttle.

 

I could trade the Cougar for panels, I know a guy that has a CNC machine along with all the switches, knobs and buttons I'd need to make every panel in the F-16 or any jet I want.

[Zuki]

Cali .. I have the Franken potato as well..., I also have a TM cougar that sits in a box on a shelf in my garage.

Why would you even think of buying a new HOTAS if you have CH stuff? That $hit is bulletproof.

[PureEvil]

I'm thinking of buying a new one.

 

most important... as usual :) how much are you willing to spend?

[docfu]

I have the TM Warthog after having had the X-52 for years. I will never buy anything Saitek without trying it first again so that rules out the X-65 for me. I think the big difference between the Warthog and "other" joysticks is that the Warthog feels like a real controller for a real plane, whereas the Saitek's are just "a glorified video game controller."

 

I also have that really old Thrustmaster in a box, the 4 button+hat one. I used that one for a good 10 years, then tried the X-52 for about 2-3, then the TM. It's not about the name for me, it's about having an actual piece of steel instead of a piece of plastic in my hand...

[Guest Izoul123]

TMWH hands down if you spend time on the A10C module in SIMULATION mode. I've posted many, many times testifying to it. Like some others said, it will make all others feel like cheap plastic game toy. It's the real deal, and it's modeled in your sim= you win. People who don't have one will never 'get it' as they for sure can model/program/speculate and remap all they want, and so therefore it's easy for them to say 'nah you don't need it/no better'....but it's not the same. I laughed at my friends who have off brand shit as they mocked me for the money on TMWH until they came over and sat down...hands on...few beers later there was that moment of silence, and then them saying "How am I gonna get this upgrade by the wife?" This has happened 100% of all encounters.

 

But I'm also one of those guys who would buy a F18 TM'HOR'? (TMWH grade/no matter how similar) stick/throttle quadrant hands down if they put it out with Edge/F18. I'm an aviation addict/hardcore gamer/simmer. Don't get me started on F15E precise replica.....(yes I realize design is all similar)

 

There is no substitute for these caliber level of sticks. NONE. Cheap toys have their time and place.

 

It is like going from this level of immersion w/ TIR5+TMWH:

to this:

Edited February 4, 2014 by Izoul123

[blackbelter]

Since TMWH is in the list, I assume you don't have a problem with the price. Then I don't see what you are still pondering about...

[SuperKungFu]

I'm going to wait till April when the X-55 comes out, might be interested to see what it offers.

[hannibal]

i have both CH products and the warthog. they are both excellent.

[PFunk1606688187]

I'm going to wait till April when the X-55 comes out, might be interested to see what it offers.

 

Something that cost you just a bit more than an X52, but still makes you wish you had a TMWH?

[Mainstay]

I have both the X65F and the TMWH. I prefer the TMWH because quality of the build is better. Also the sensor in the throttle is more accurate in TMWH. Only downside is that the TMWH throttle is made out of plastic (dont know why).... where the X65F is made out of metal. Software for the TMWH is also alot better more things to program and fine tune. Where the people from Saitek have bad support on drivers and software.

 

Grading both sticks

 

TMWH - 9

Pros

Supreme quality build metal parts

Good sensors

Good Software

Overall feel topnotch

 

Cons

Throttle plastic

No rudder movement so you need rudderpedals

Ball in stick badly greased for some (not mine)

 

X65F - 7

Pros

Force Sensing is very nicely working

All metal

No moving parts that can degrade over time on the stick

 

Cons

Sensor quality on the throttle not as precise as the TMWH

Software and driver support saitek is bad

To expensive for what it offers

[Nobody96]

I had the x65f (send it back) and have currently the TMWH, FFB2, G940 stick and Cougar Throttle available.

 

TMWH:

metal

tons of buttons

only a small amount of axis for zoom, prop pitch, ...

the mini stick on the throttle to control the targeting pot is worse than on any other stick

 

x65f:

metal

force sensing

smoothest throttle I tested so far

tons of buttons but not as intuitive as the TMWH

only a 1 stage trigger

not enough axis (not even the famous zoom axis of the x45 is a axis anymore)

impossible to use the throttle separately since only the stick as a usb connector

 

FFB2

I use it and love it for everything that needs force feedback (P51, Ka50)

 

Cougar Throttle

I use this one for everything that needs more axis than the TMWH provides (P51, Huey)

 

G940

I really have some history with this thing: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Controllers/Logitech-G940-Software-Update-Official-notice/m-p/644552#M9090

Currently I am thinking about disassembling it to build something like PeterPs famous FFB stick.

 

-Mathias

[Cali]

Cali .. I have the Franken potato as well..., I also have a TM cougar that sits in a box on a shelf in my garage.

Why would you even think of buying a new HOTAS if you have CH stuff? That $hit is bulletproof.

 

Long time no see, how are you doing? I know CH is bullet proof and the Fraken-Potato is awesome, as I have had CH for the past 10+ years with a few Cougars in-between. I love the Cougar, but it's single throttle and everything is dual throttle besides the F-16....which we don't have yet.

 

most important... as usual :) how much are you willing to spend?

 

I've seen the warthog for $350-400 and the X-65F for $309, so $400 is not a problem.

 

Since TMWH is in the list, I assume you don't have a problem with the price. Then I don't see what you are still pondering about...

 

The warthog doesn't have rotaries, which are nice but not a deal killer.

 

I have both the X65F and the TMWH. I prefer the TMWH because quality of the build is better. Also the sensor in the throttle is more accurate in TMWH. Only downside is that the TMWH throttle is made out of plastic (dont know why).... where the X65F is made out of metal. Software for the TMWH is also alot better more things to program and fine tune. Where the people from Saitek have bad support on drivers and software.

 

Grading both sticks

 

TMWH - 9

Pros

Supreme quality build metal parts

Good sensors

Good Software

Overall feel topnotch

 

Cons

Throttle plastic

No rudder movement so you need rudderpedals

Ball in stick badly greased for some (not mine)

 

X65F - 7

Pros

Force Sensing is very nicely working

All metal

No moving parts that can degrade over time on the stick

 

Cons

Sensor quality on the throttle not as precise as the TMWH

Software and driver support saitek is bad

To expensive for what it offers

 

I have flown with a warthog in the past and the other day, it is nice and I love the feel of it. I have only messed around with the X-65F at the store and it seemed nice.

 

Warthog has no rotaries and X-65 has some weird button placement on throttle and stick. Also wish they added a little movement to the stick.

 

I had the x65f (send it back) and have currently the TMWH, FFB2, G940 stick and Cougar Throttle available.

 

TMWH:

metal

tons of buttons

only a small amount of axis for zoom, prop pitch, ...

the mini stick on the throttle to control the targeting pot is worse than on any other stick

 

x65f:

metal

force sensing

smoothest throttle I tested so far

tons of buttons but not as intuitive as the TMWH

only a 1 stage trigger

not enough axis (not even the famous zoom axis of the x45 is a axis anymore)

impossible to use the throttle separately since only the stick as a usb connector

 

Cougar Throttle

I use this one for everything that needs more axis than the TMWH provides (P51, Huey)

 

-Mathias

 

I don't know why they didn't add a two-stage trigger to the X-65. The mini-stick on the warthog is something I didn't check out the other day...crap!

 

Thanks for all the info so far guys. I have been looking at tons of reviews on both sticks. The X-55 looks better then the X-65, they moved the pickle button back where it should be. It looks the same as the X-65, with a few improvements and the stick moves.

[Revvin]

4. uber Cougar <---try this again, it works great, I just hate foxy and need to mod the throttle.

 

You could just use the TARGET software to program the Cougar

[Cali]

You could just use the TARGET software to program the Cougar

 

That's what I'm going to try out, I downloaded TARGET yesterday. But I'm still keeping my eyes open until I decide about the Cougar.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Cali

[Cali]

Just saw this the other day TUSBA http://www.realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html

 

from realsimulator.com

T.USB.A is the acronym for Throttle USB Adapter. this special version has been designed for the F16 TQS, and let you connect your loved TQS to any standar USB socket.

TUSBA use standard HID drivers included in your installed operating system. no matter if x32 or x64, XP W7 or W8. TUSBA will work in all situations.

TUSBA has been designed with state of the art last generation microcomputer and has been adjusted to improve the accuracy and precision of your hardware, giving you a full noise free 12 bit resolution, 4096 steps in all analog variables.

[Revvin]

I saw that a few days ago, handy if you have a Cougar and a Warthog, you could just quickly plug in the Cougar throttle when flying F16's. Thrustmaster should release and updated standalone USB F16 throttle, they must surely still have all the tooling for it tucked away somewhere? With some tweaks and a few hall sensors chucked in it wod be a nice unit to have.

[Cali]

I saw that a few days ago, handy if you have a Cougar and a Warthog, you could just quickly plug in the Cougar throttle when flying F16's. Thrustmaster should release and updated standalone USB F16 throttle, they must surely still have all the tooling for it tucked away somewhere? With some tweaks and a few hall sensors chucked in it wod be a nice unit to have.

 

They should, but why now since they have this to do the job. TM sales the A-10C stick as a standalone......when are they going to sale the throttle as a standalone?

[Revvin]

They should, but why now since they have this to do the job. TM sales the A-10C stick as a standalone......when are they going to sale the throttle as a standalone?

 

Because you can't buy a new Cougar and they are becoming rarer on eBay and why buy a whole HOTAS when you could just buy the throttle? You have to buy a HOTAS and then an adaptor and it can't be programmed in TARGET. They sell the stick as a standalone it would seem the next logical step would be a standalone throttle unit so people can mix and match although a ED Falcon module would surely help drive sales.

[Cali]

After 10+ years of use, I'll be getting rid of my CH pedals also and getting the Saitek combat pedals. Probably have my whole CH set-up up for sale soon.

[badger66]

I started with an X52pro . I would go for the TM Warthog if I were you .

 

It has a lovely feel , easy to programme unlike that Saitek X52pro ..... plenty of buttons and switchs ..... I have no issue with grease .

 

The throttle may be plastic but it is built rugged ..... and it is designed on a real HOTAS . If you have the A-10C module its plug and play ..... setup a profile for an F-15C in 15 minutes complete .

 

There is some guy in the for sale thread intending to offer different style joysticks that will mate with the TMWH joystick base . He is already asking about interest in an F-18C stick . So for me the TMWH has more potential .

 

I believe that the 65X can be a right bitch to get the feel of with those sensors .

 

I cant see how anything beats the TMWH . Perhaps a little pricy but in the end you get what you pay for .

 

Hope this was helpful .

Edited February 12, 2014 by badger66

[PureEvil]

After 10+ years of use, I'll be getting rid of my CH pedals also and getting the Saitek combat pedals. Probably have my whole CH set-up up for sale soon.

 

why not to buy some of those custom pedals some guys sell here on the forums? i'm sure they will last longer time and feel better then any popular(better known) brand out there atm.

[Cali]

I started with an X52pro . I would go for the TM Warthog if I were you .

 

It has a lovely feel , easy to programme unlike that Saitek X52pro ..... plenty of buttons and switchs ..... I have no issue with grease .

 

The throttle may be plastic but it is built rugged ..... and it is designed on a real HOTAS . If you have the A-10C module its plug and play ..... setup a profile for an F-15C in 15 minutes complete .

 

There is some guy in the for sale thread intending to offer different style joysticks that will mate with the TMWH joystick base . He is already asking about interest in an F-18C stick . So for me the TMWH has more potential .

 

I believe that the 65X can be a right bitch to get the feel of with those sensors .

 

I cant see how anything beats the TMWH . Perhaps a little pricy but in the end you get what you pay for .

 

Hope this was helpful .

 

I've seen WH for $350.00-415.00, but I'm going to give my uber modded Cougar a fair try first. I also could end up buying a WH and just using the Cougar for BMS. I've flown with the WH so I know how it feels, that is another reason why I'm getting rid of my CH.

 

 

why not to buy some of those custom pedals some guys sell here on the forums? i'm sure they will last longer time and feel better then any popular(better known) brand out there atm.

 

I've been reading tons of reviews and people like those pedals. Not sure on the build quality and I haven't seen, read or seen a price about the ones you are talking about. The Saitek ones are $172.00 dollars and can be here a few days after I order them.

[SkateZilla]

why the sudden bail on CH?

[PureEvil]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3801659/1/Rudder_Pedals_like_BF109F

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=115807

 

another1

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=119419

http://mfg.simundza.com/mfgcrosswind.php

 

found another 2

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/pedals_76_235.jpg

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=999&mode=view

Edited February 13, 2014 by PureEvil

[doveman]

I'm looking at the X-55 and Warthog but it's a shame neither have FFB and now you say the mini stick on the WH is crap and I hate paying loads of money for something that has issues.

 

So I'm considering buying a MS FFB2 and X52 Pro cheap off e-bay and combining them like this http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3733703/Re_X52_MS_FFB2_Hybrid#Post3733703 so that I have a FFB stick with a decent amount of buttons/hats on it, along with the X52 Pro throttle.

 

I have the A-10C, UH-1H and KA-50 modules but I'm focused more on the helos at the moment and everyone says you really need a FFB stick for them, so it's a shame no-one is making a decent FFB HOTAS at the moment.

 

The only thing I'm not sure about my combo is whether the pots will be good enough or if it will be possible to replace them with hall sensors to make it more accurate, as precision and sensitivity is probably even more important than FFB for balancing the helos. I wouldn't have a clue how to do this myself though, so unless someone's already done it and written a guide I'll have to make my purchasing decisions on the basis that this isn't possible (or at least I'm never going to do it), so if the Sidewinder/X52 combo isn't going to be accurate enough without hall sensors, I should probably forget about it and go back to choosing between the X55 and WH.