DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion

[some1]

Nice video, but why on every video or screenshot the cockpit has to have this purple backlight on? :)

[Maxzouz]

This looks like a systems state check list. There is almost no switch operation listed and I seriously doubt it requires to press on the red engine start button only like a douche's supercar

 

Did you buy the F-86 ? Try the start up sequence. Le longest thing to do is wait for ground crew to plug the power.

Anyway, since you're French too you must know that since the 9/11, the French Air Force use what they call "Permanence Opérationnelle".

 

This setup makes sure two M-2000 will be up in the air within 2, 7 or 15 min (depending on the alert type) in case of an emergency or danger from an unidentified aircraft. To do that, the aircraft is in standby. Systems are UP but the engine is OFF. So I think it can start pretty quicly.

Little detail here : FAF uses Mirage 2000-5F which is a more complicated version of the one simulated by RAZBAM. That's probably why the systems needs to be already up and running.

 

We'll see

 

Max.

[Azrayen]

You might want to check some of your facts, here, Max.

 

Agreed on the quick start-up capability, for QRA (PO) duties.

 

OTOH the PO/QRA was not introduced because of 9/11 but long before (cold war).

And the AdlA/FAF does not limit itself to 2000-5Fs for PO/QRA missions. All capable combat aircraft take their share of this "burden" : Mirage F1s until their retirement last year, Mirage 2000Cs, Mirage 2000-5Fs, Rafales.

 

++

Az'

[Maxzouz]

You might want to check some of your facts, here, Max.

 

Agreed on the quick start-up capability, for QRA (PO) duties.

 

OTOH the PO/QRA was not introduced because of 9/11 but long before (cold war).

And the AdlA/FAF does not limit itself to 2000-5Fs for PO/QRA missions. All capable combat aircraft take their share of this "burden" : Mirage F1s until their retirement last year, Mirage 2000Cs, Mirage 2000-5Fs, Rafales.

 

++

Az'

 

I knew you would come :). Thanks for that, i didn't know that they were already doing this before 9/11.

 

The point is, the start up sequence doesn't seems to be unreal to me considering the facts above. But I obviously don't know as much as a real pilot on that point, as far as I know the start up could be completly wrong and I would'nt notice it sadly :). But I'm sure RAZBAM did their research on that point

[Valinor]

EFM is very much on the way...

 

 

 

.

 

EFM is being worked on, Wags doesn't say it's coming anytime soon.

 

Personally i already have the C-101 and the Hawk, waiting on both for the AFM/EFM.

 

I was considering buying the Mirage right away because i thought it would had the EFM right away as well, considering that the price was also a little higher than the usual modules.

But if this is the case, i think i will wait a little more =/

[jaguara5]

Full startup sequence from fsx version (in French)

[Moos_tachu]

This looks like a systems state check list. There is almost no switch operation listed and I seriously doubt it requires to press on the red engine start button only like a douche's supercar

 

The M2000 has quite a high level of automation.

Matt might be missing 1 or 2 items from the full check list, but what we see looks consistent with a M2000 quick startup procedure.

The same for INS alignment, it is very quick on M2000.

 

Do you know what it takes to start an engine on A320 (a far more complex machine)?

Once you have electrical power up, you just need to push 2 buttons:

- Fuel Pumps ON

- Engine ON

All the rest is handled by the automation (FADEC).

[myHelljumper]

In the Mirage 2000C the INS takes 8 minutes to align

[Bogey Jammer]

Did you buy the F-86 ?

No, but I saw startup sequences videos and it's indeed one of the most simple aircrafts to start. However, in F4 BMS, the sequence is extremely complex and detailed. The F-16 got much more systems to be switched on, and much more comparable to the Mirage than a gen 1 jet fighter…

 

This setup makes sure two M-2000 will be up in the air within 2, 7 or 15 min (depending on the alert type) in case of an emergency or danger from an unidentified aircraft. To do that, the aircraft is in standby. Systems are UP but the engine is OFF. So I think it can start pretty quicly.

Little detail here : FAF uses Mirage 2000-5F which is a more complicated version of the one simulated by RAZBAM. That's probably why the systems needs to be already up and running.

I presume the ground staff keeps the aircraft in a condition to be taken off quicker than a 100% cold start. Like keeping the oil warm (I think) and the INS pre-aligned

 

Do you know what it takes to start an engine on A320 (a far more complex machine)?

Once you have electrical power up, you just need to push 2 buttons:

- Fuel Pumps ON

- Engine ON

All the rest is handled by the automation (FADEC).

Mmmkay, maybe but I don't care about airliners.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bogey Jammer

[Zeus67]

Folks,

 

1. Matt followed the start sequence that we gave him based on the French manual.

 

2. No INS alignment proc yet, because the INS is not ready.

 

3. Yes, that is how you start the M-2000C RDM or RDI:

a. You switch the fuel pumps on.

b. You select ignition/vent source.

c. You open the start engine switch cover, which also starts the starter pump

d. you press the engine start switch for 1 second and voila! the engine starts.

 

4. The M-2000C does not have an APU, it can start from internal power but it uses external power preferably.

 

5. Also missing is the FBW system test which takes place AFTER engine start.

 

We followed all the written procedures at our disposal.

[Bogey Jammer]

OK :D

[Maxzouz]

Folks,

 

1. Matt followed the start sequence that we gave him based on the French manual.

 

2. No INS alignment proc yet, because the INS is not ready.

 

3. Yes, that is how you start the M-2000C RDM or RDI:

a. You switch the fuel pumps on.

b. You select ignition/vent source.

c. You open the start engine switch cover, which also starts the starter pump

d. you press the engine start switch for 1 second and voila! the engine starts.

 

4. The M-2000C does not have an APU, it can start from internal power but it uses external power preferably.

 

5. Also missing is the FBW system test which takes place AFTER engine start.

 

We followed all the written procedures at our disposal.

 

And Zeus delivers :).

Is the external power unit will be in the final release, like FSX ? Even just for cosmetics.

[phant]

Folks,

 

1. Matt followed the start sequence that we gave him based on the French manual.

 

2. No INS alignment proc yet, because the INS is not ready.

 

3. Yes, that is how you start the M-2000C RDM or RDI:

a. You switch the fuel pumps on.

b. You select ignition/vent source.

c. You open the start engine switch cover, which also starts the starter pump

d. you press the engine start switch for 1 second and voila! the engine starts.

 

4. The M-2000C does not have an APU, it can start from internal power but it uses external power preferably.

 

5. Also missing is the FBW system test which takes place AFTER engine start.

 

We followed all the written procedures at our disposal.

 

Zeus, what about the gear lever brake on the right side seat?

 

Bye

Phant

[Cool Breeze]

I'm glad I have it pre-ordered regardless if it will have the SFM or the E/P/AFM on beta release! It's a beta! I can understand that maybe some aircraft left a bad taste in people's mouths about pre-ordering modules. I've only been what I would call a really active DCS player for the last four years. How long has everyone been flying SFMs in Flaming Cliffs and DCSW a decade? Probably more? How long have we been wanting more aircraft? They are finally arriving! But we are complaining because they are not going into BETA with an EFM or all of the "features" we want then to have!?!?! We could have been waiting for this for much longer! By all means wait for the modules to be fully released! Wait for a sale! For myself I'll show the Developers some much needed love for all the hours they have poured into these modules and that we will soon be enjoying! Apologies for the rant....*climbs of his high horse and unsaddles that nag for a bit!*

[Hook47]

Folks,

 

1. Matt followed the start sequence that we gave him based on the French manual.

 

2. No INS alignment proc yet, because the INS is not ready.

 

3. Yes, that is how you start the M-2000C RDM or RDI:

a. You switch the fuel pumps on.

b. You select ignition/vent source.

c. You open the start engine switch cover, which also starts the starter pump

d. you press the engine start switch for 1 second and voila! the engine starts.

 

4. The M-2000C does not have an APU, it can start from internal power but it uses external power preferably.

 

5. Also missing is the FBW system test which takes place AFTER engine start.

 

We followed all the written procedures at our disposal.

 

Zeus,

 

Thanks for the clarification! There was some little debate on the YT vid and before even seeing this I knew that those couple missing steps were still WIP. Hopefully anyone who was picking it apart will be satisfied now!

 

AWESOME LOOKING PRODUCT! We cannot wait!

[Hook47]

Zeus, what about the gear lever brake on the right side seat?

 

Bye

Phant

 

Come on, man, who needs brakes?

 

I am 1000% sure it will be there.

 

This looks like a systems state check list. There is almost no switch operation listed and I seriously doubt it requires to press on the red engine start button only like a douche's supercar

 

Hate to kind of call you out, man, but before giving Razbam a hard time over hours upon hours upon years of work maybe you should research the real M2000Cs start up procedure??? It was an interceptor and a advanced aircraft... It starts FAST (besides waiting for the 6 minute INS alignment)

 

If you just like hitting more buttons then allow me to recommend the A-10C or KA-50. There is lots of shiny buttons and switches in the MiG 21, but sadly it can be started even faster than this!

Edited September 24, 2015 by Hook47

[Bogey Jammer]

Hate to kind of call you out, man, but before giving Razbam a hard time over hours upon hours upon years of work maybe you should research the real M2000Cs start up procedure??? It was an interceptor and a advanced aircraft... It starts FAST (besides waiting for the 6 minute INS alignment)

 

Man, not all fighters of that generation start so fast.

 

And the point was that many people took infos from a document of questionable worthiness… Not to press the most buttons as possible. But if the Mirage has to be like that, so be it. ;)

 

I love that aircraft and I want it realistic, like everyone here. But if I read somewhere that the staff working on the real stuff said that there are errors, I will naturally have doubts and not continue to blindly lick balls instead. And yes I preordered the product.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

There's a massive difference between checklists (very short, usually limited to 'killer' items) and expanded procedures (include ever switch throw, check item etc).

[Bogey Jammer]

There's a massive difference between checklists (very short, usually limited to 'killer' items) and expanded procedures (include ever switch throw, check item etc).

+1 :thumbup:

 

And that precious full procedure is supposed to be classified.

[=Mac=]

Just for the forum's records: according to the account records that ED is keeping for me, I bought my first ED aircraft in 2008. That was the Black Shark. Yes, I bought the disk version of LoMac back when god was a kid so I don't know what year that was.

 

Today, I just purchased the M2000. My aircraft hanger is full of everything ED has ever sold. Everything. Several things (I'd have to look at the account history again) I have purchased twice simply to reward ED and their partners. And, no, I'm not rich. I have a minimum wage job. But DCS is my hobby.

 

Although I don't fly the Russian aircraft nor the third party trainers much, I once successfully did carrier quals in an Su-33 with the 104th Phoenix, I fly the rotors off the Huey, the rivets off the P-51, The GAU-8's barrels are becoming warped from overuse, and the F-15's ejection handles are getting a bit worn out. Whatever flight model the Mirage will have once I'm in it, I'm sure I will be scraping tree leaves off the leading edges of it from the day it's released until Canada runs out of electricity to run my computer.

 

For the past 10 years, on weekend days, I have sailed and will continue to sail, Lake Ontario. Weekend nights, I'm aviating and will continue to aviate via DCS.

 

Anything DCS: :yes:

[TomCatMucDe]

Just for the forum's records: according to the account records that ED is keeping for me, I bought my first ED aircraft in 2008. That was the Black Shark. Yes, I bought the disk version of LoMac back when god was a kid so I don't know what year that was.

 

Today, I just purchased the M2000. My aircraft hanger is full of everything ED has ever sold. Everything. Several things (I'd have to look at the account history again) I have purchased twice simply to reward ED and their partners. And, no, I'm not rich. I have a minimum wage job. But DCS is my hobby.

 

Although I don't fly the Russian aircraft nor the third party trainers much, I once successfully did carrier quals in an Su-33 with the 104th Phoenix, I fly the rotors off the Huey, the rivets off the P-51, The GAU-8's barrels are becoming warped from overuse, and the F-15's ejection handles are getting a bit worn out. Whatever flight model the Mirage will have once I'm in it, I'm sure I will be scraping tree leaves off the leading edges of it from the day it's released until Canada runs out of electricity to run my computer.

 

For the past 10 years, on weekend days, I have sailed and will continue to sail, Lake Ontario. Weekend nights, I'm aviating and will continue to aviate via DCS.

 

Anything DCS: :yes:

 

very wel said :)

 

by the way, you have a beast of PC and fancy hardware for a minimum wage! it got me wondering what s the minimum wage over there :D

[Boberro]

very wel said :)

 

by the way, you have a beast of PC and fancy hardware for a minimum wage! it got me wondering what s the minimum wage over there :D

 

It is enough to have no woman :D

Then you can focus on your needs ^^

[Moos_tachu]

Mmmkay, maybe but I don't care about airliners.

 

Thanks for this valuable contribution. I'm sure the entire community will rest better after reading this.

Long time I had not been on the forums. DCS: M2000C coming soon changed that.

And now I remember the wisdom in Wags' signature...

 

Btw, you were correct when you said the M2000 and F-16 were comparable... but incorrect when you assumed this would result in comparable startup procedures.

The Mirage 2000 is known for its shorter ramp start.

[Manuel_108]

The M2000 has quite a high level of automation.

Matt might be missing 1 or 2 items from the full check list, but what we see looks consistent with a M2000 quick startup procedure.

The same for INS alignment, it is very quick on M2000.

 

Do you know what it takes to start an engine on A320 (a far more complex machine)?

Once you have electrical power up, you just need to push 2 buttons:

- Fuel Pumps ON

- Engine ON

All the rest is handled by the automation (FADEC).

 

There is a little bit more to powering up an airliner than starting the engines.

And btw, 14 switches would be required just for engine start. (Batteries, 6 fuel pump buttons, Apu Master, Apu Start, Apu Bleed, Ignition switch and both engine master switches.)

[mattebubben]

Thanks for this valuable contribution. I'm sure the entire community will rest better after reading this.

Long time I had not been on the forums. DCS: M2000C coming soon changed that.

And now I remember the wisdom in Wags' signature...

 

Btw, you were correct when you said the M2000 and F-16 were comparable... but incorrect when you assumed this would result in comparable startup procedures.

The Mirage 2000 is known for its shorter ramp start.

 

THen again its an Interceptor.

 

So it has to have a very short start up period.

 

The Americans never really had that requirement.

 

Thats also why some Soviet/russian aircraft also had very short startup times.