STATEMENT ON RELEASE

[Art-J]

And for some, it might be the opposite case. I'm strongly against a pathetic "neverending betas" strategy of Belsimtek (which sadly becomes the norm in general computer gaming nowadays), this is what gets on my consumer nerves and makes me reluctant in supporting certain teams. ED ain't much better in this regard and there's no way I'm going to pay a full price for F-86 or Dora until they get fully sorted (which, given the less than stellar experiences with Mi-8, might easily last until summer of 2015 or longer).

 

Not happy about delays, but still, I like the fact that LS is the first team which actually tries to release finished product on day one. I don't expect it to be 100% glitch-proof, but at least most, if not all systems are going to be modelled and working "straight out of the box".

[Mode1961]

And for some, it might be the opposite case. I'm strongly against a pathetic "neverending betas" strategy of Belsimtek (which sadly becomes the norm in general computer gaming nowadays), this is what gets on my consumer nerves and makes me reluctant in supporting certain teams. ED ain't much better in this regard and there's no way I'm going to pay a full price for F-86 or Dora until they get fully sorted (which, given the less than stellar experiences with Mi-8, might easily last until summer of 2015 or longer).

 

Not happy about delays, but still, I like the fact that LS is the first team which actually tries to release finished product on day one. I don't expect it to be 100% glitch-proof, but at least most, if not all systems are going to be modelled and working "straight out of the box".

 

The problem is that it WON'T be a finished product , there will be bugs and plenty of them. Their beta test team was probably very small with a small amount of machines and configs to test it on. This includes the installer, patcher etc. The reason is because ALL software has bugs and usually plenty of them, easy patching makes this absolute guarantee in todays software world.

[Zakatak]

Can't say I'm surprised at the lack of a livestream?

 

Why do you guys even give us dates if your can never make them? It's clear you're all working too hard on the MiG-21 to do anything but continue working too hard on the MiG-21, as I can't actually recall a single announced date for an information release being met this year. It disappoints the customers who, in turn, express their disappointment and make you feel less appreciated. It's a lose-lose situation. Be realistic, developing a module is very hard and unpredictable work, and because of that, you'll probably end up missing any date you try to make as has been proven so far. Just release the information when it's ready, don't tease us about it. The amount of customers you can lose due to being a little more quiet isn't going to be any more than the ones you can lose from the distrust caused by constantly missed announcements.

[Mode1961]

Can't say I'm surprised at the lack of a livestream?

 

Why do you guys even give us dates if your can never make them? It's clear you're all working too hard on the MiG-21 to do anything but continue working too hard on the MiG-21, as I can't actually recall a single announced date for an information release being met this year. It disappoints the customers who, in turn, express their disappointment and make you feel less appreciated. It's a lose-lose situation. Be realistic, developing a module is very hard and unpredictable work, and because of that, you'll probably end up missing any date you try to make as has been proven so far. Just release the information when it's ready, don't tease us about it. The amount of customers you can lose due to being a little more quiet isn't going to be any more than the ones you can lose from the distrust caused by constantly missed announcements.

 

Don't worry, they said they would be giving the backers the module a week early but they are now even discussing that too, iow, that MIGHT not even be true.

[Teeter]

Can't say I'm surprised at the lack of a livestream?

 

Why do you guys even give us dates if your can never make them? It's clear you're all working too hard on the MiG-21 to do anything but continue working too hard on the MiG-21, as I can't actually recall a single announced date for an information release being met this year. It disappoints the customers who, in turn, express their disappointment and make you feel less appreciated. It's a lose-lose situation. Be realistic, developing a module is very hard and unpredictable work, and because of that, you'll probably end up missing any date you try to make as has been proven so far. Just release the information when it's ready, don't tease us about it. The amount of customers you can lose due to being a little more quiet isn't going to be any more than the ones you can lose from the distrust caused by constantly missed announcements.

 

You know, if you guys are so insistent on complaining, at least check to see if you have the facts right. Go back to page 17 and you'll see that Cobra said "late today, or TOMORROW." It's like a dramatic teenage breakup up in here.

[Mode1961]

You know, if you guys are so insistent on complaining, at least check to see if you have the facts right. Go back to page 17 and you'll see that Cobra said "late today, or TOMORROW." It's like a dramatic teenage breakup up in here.

 

OR we could go back to LAST WED when he made the first announcement and said this FRIDAY , then again he also said there would be an update within a week, which meant before this WED just past.

[Mode1961]

I will say this now and directed at Cobra. Man just don't say anything anymore until you can type the following "Mig 21 is released, please go to the store to purchase". I am not saying this because I don't want info, I am saying it because there probably isn't 2 or 3 posts in this entire forum where you have made statements that included dates that you have actually lived up to.

 

I will ask this now and I doubt it will be answered, did the "PREVIEW/REVIEW" copies go out this week.

 

I ask because I have checked all the major game/sim sites for a review/preview and have seen nothing. This would indicate that they didn't.

[Teeter]

OR we could go back to LAST WED when he made the first announcement and said this FRIDAY , then again he also said there would be an update within a week, which meant before this WED just past.

 

Wrong. His post was on Saturday, not even a week ago yet. It went something like:

 

"As I mentioned in the other thread: Update within a week, promo copies going out next week, and likely a livestream on Friday."

 

So an official update (if you like to think he hasn't been giving regular updates already) by the end of tomorrow, promo copies this coming week, and live stream was LIKELY, NOT GUARANTEED today, although as he said earlier, it will probably happen tomorrow.

 

It's comments like yours which promote the constant festering of misinformation and inappropriate reading into of the devs statements.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Teeter

[Mode1961]

Wrong. His post was on Saturday, not even a week ago yet. It went something like:

 

"As I mentioned in the other thread: Update within a week, promo copies going out next week, and likely a livestream on Friday."

 

So an official update (if you like to think he hasn't been giving regular updates already) by the end of tomorrow, promo copies this coming week, and live stream was LIKELY, NOT GUARANTEED today, although as he said earlier, it will probably happen tomorrow.

 

It's comments like yours which promote the constant festering of misinformation and inappropriate reading into of the devs statements.

 

06-28-2014, 04:33 PM

 

Just cut and pasted from post in question, that is when it was posted, 28 of June which unless my calendar is screwed up was WED.

 

BTW, just click on the first post of this thread, that is where he said it.

[Teeter]

06-28-2014, 04:33 PM

 

Just cut and pasted from post in question, that is when it was posted, 28 of June which unless my calendar is screwed up was WED.

 

Your calendar is screwed up, then. Do some math, today is the fourth, the 28th was six days ago, and therefore was a Saturday. Or do what most people do and go to google and type "calendar" before you harass the devs about dates.

 

And yes, I know where he said it. I literally pasted what he said like two messages ago. Thanks!

Edited July 4, 2014 by Teeter

[Mode1961]

Your calendar is screwed up, then. Do some math, today is the fourth, the 28th was six days ago, and therefore was a Saturday. Or do what most people do and go to google and type "calendar" before you harass the devs about dates.

 

And yes, I know where he said it. Thanks!

 

You are correct, just rechecked the date , looked at the wrong date, I apologize.

[Teeter]

You are correct, just rechecked the date , looked at the wrong date, I apologize.

 

Still looking at May's calendar? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to try and berate Cobra when you haven't changed your calendar for two months?

[Zakatak]

You know, if you guys are so insistent on complaining, at least check to see if you have the facts right. Go back to page 17 and you'll see that Cobra said "late today, or TOMORROW." It's like a dramatic teenage breakup up in here.

Oh, didn't check back that far, only went a few pages. Bunch of people we're saying it was cancelled without linking the statement, my bad.

[Mode1961]

Still looking at May's calendar? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to try and berate Cobra when you haven't changed your calendar for two months?

 

 

I wasn't looking at MAY, I was looking at the wrong area in June but that is neither here or there, I apologized, just accept that in the spirit in was intended.

[Esac_mirmidon]

[Teeter]

 

Couldn't agree more! :helpsmilie:

[McBlemmen]

Going trough the previous pages of comments i wouldn't call this a no whining zone at all. (no offense to anyone, i do support freedom of speech)

[Teeter]

Going trough the previous pages of comments i wouldn't call this a no whining zone at all. (no offense to anyone, i do support freedom of speech)

 

Well...it's SUPPOSED to be. I mean the release thread was CLOSED because of all of the whining and inherent accusations and festering misinformation. Thankfully this thread hasn't gotten that bad yet! :joystick:

Edited July 5, 2014 by Teeter

[outlawal2]

Well...it's SUPPOSED to be. I meal the release thread was CLOSED because of all of the whining and inherent accusations and festering misinformation. Thankfully this thread hasn't gotten that bad yet! :joystick:

 

 

REALLY?

:doh:

[Teeter]

REALLY?

:doh:

 

It's pretty far off course, but not closed yet :music_whistling:

[ff4life4]

While I agree that there has been a lot of "whining" complaining in the past, the way I look at it, is that its a discussion board. I believe that its a persons right to want to complain if they want.

 

Given the circumstances with how this project has progressed, it is understandable people are starting to get fairly livid and upset about the whole thing. I'm not saying that everyone should be this way, but I completely understand why, given that almost all of the promised actions, and due dates have never came to be true.

 

The customer, has the final say in everything, they can either buy the product or not. Buying is good for the devs, not buying is obviously not their goal.

 

Allowing customers to express their feelings is something that shouldn't be taken lightly, as it can directly affect the success of a module. And whats scary, is that for every person who is posting on here complaining, there are probably 25 more who feel the same way yet never post. If the customers feel alienated after the process, they may go and buy other modules instead, which for the Mig-21, it may not be as much of a difference since there aren't any other full fidelity fighters, but I'm talking about more in the future when there are many other products from the other 3rd party devs.

 

I'm also a little upset to see others, who feel they have a right to call out the other "complainers." I mean no offense by this, but your opinions don't have any superiority over theres. Your free to express the dissatisfaction of complaining, but It's sad to see others belittle the ones that are complaining over the issues. Its great that you have superior patience and what not, but chances are, the ones who are complaining are the biggest supporters of the module. Most aren't complaining just for the hell of it, they are genuinely upset. Yes, I understand that this module has been in development for a few years, and that "an extra few weeks won't mean anything." Well there is a breaking point that comes, and for many people it will eventually become that time, where they start pursuing other modules, or different games outside of DCS completely. If "just a few weeks extra" happened over and over, years could pass by without it being released.

 

But as I mentioned, those who are complaining may be some of the most dedicated fans. If they are left disappointed for too long, they may seriously reconsider they views on any future modules, and as such may not help fund future projects through Indigogo or Kickstarter or anything. That could be a serious consequence moving forward if they needed public funding again for the next time around. As they may support other developers actions moving forward.

 

This thread has seem to luckily had less "misinformation" posted. All that is being posted mostly were about the livestream that was supposed to happen today, and with no suprise didnt. Everyone is going be discussing about the update next week, and about the promo copies. Those have been said to be occurring, and if they don't there will of course be people that are upset over it, and there will be discussion. And if those actions DO happen, there will be a lot of excitement in the forums I'm sure, which would be a good thing at this point.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I just had to put my $.02 and opinion in this issue. I'm sure some will not like what i've said but thats the nature of life.

 

I really hope that a solid video comes out tomorrow, that promo copies and update go out shortly. I really want everyone to be happy and excited about the project, and hopefully subsequent release in the near future.

 

I know LN has put a lot of time and effort into this product, despite the setbacks and challenges. But its time to put rubber on the road. Many people are DYING to fly this and enjoy it, and this forum is a true testament to it. Remember to think about the customers and ensure that they will want to follow you into the future, with not just this module, but any others that you plan on completing.

 

 

Off soap box ;)

Edited July 5, 2014 by ff4life4

[statrekmike]

While I agree that there has been a lot of "whining" complaining in the past, the way I look at it, is that its a discussion board. I believe that its a persons right to want to complain if they want.

 

Given the circumstances with how this project has progressed, it is understandable people are starting to get fairly livid and upset about the whole thing. I'm not saying that everyone should be this way, but I completely understand why, given that almost all of the promised actions, and due dates have never came to be true.

 

The customer, has the final say in everything, they can either buy the product or not. Buying is good for the devs, not buying is obviously not their goal.

 

Allowing customers to express their feelings is something that shouldn't be taken lightly, as it can directly affect the success of a module. And whats scary, is that for every person who is posting on here complaining, there are probably 25 more who feel the same way yet never post. If the customers feel alienated after the process, they may go and buy other modules instead, which for the Mig-21, it may not be as much of a difference since there aren't any other full fidelity fighters, but I'm talking about more in the future when there are many other products from the other 3rd party devs.

 

I'm also a little upset to see others, who feel they have a right to call out the other "complainers." I mean no offense by this, but your opinions don't have any superiority over theres. Your free to express the dissatisfaction of complaining, but It's sad to see others belittle the ones that are complaining over the issues. Its great that you have superior patience and what not, but chances are, the ones who are complaining are the biggest supporters of the module. Most aren't complaining just for the hell of it, they are genuinely upset. Yes, I understand that this module has been in development for a few years, and that "an extra few weeks won't mean anything." Well there is a breaking point that comes, and for many people it will eventually become that time, where they start pursuing other modules, or different games outside of DCS completely. If "just a few weeks extra" happened over and over, years could pass by without it being released.

 

But as I mentioned, those who are complaining may be some of the most dedicated fans. If they are left disappointed for too long, they may seriously reconsider they views on any future modules, and as such may not help fund future projects through Indigogo or Kickstarter or anything. That could be a serious consequence moving forward if they needed public funding again for the next time around. As they may support other developers actions moving forward.

 

This thread has seem to luckily had less "misinformation" posted. All that is being posted mostly were about the livestream that was supposed to happen today, and with no suprise didnt. Everyone is going be discussing about the update next week, and about the promo copies. Those have been said to be occurring, and if they don't there will of course be people that are upset over it, and there will be discussion. And if those actions DO happen, there will be a lot of excitement in the forums I'm sure, which would be a good thing at this point.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I just had to put my $.02 and opinion in this issue. I'm sure some will not like what i've said but thats the nature of life.

 

I really hope that a solid video comes out tomorrow, that promo copies and update go out shortly. I really want everyone to be happy and excited about the project, and hopefully subsequent release in the near future.

 

I know LN has put a lot of time and effort into this product, despite the setbacks and challenges. But its time to put rubber on the road. Many people are DYING to fly this and enjoy it, and this forum is a true testament to it. Remember to think about the customers and ensure that they will want to follow you into the future, with not just this module, but any others that you plan on completing.

 

 

Off soap box ;)

 

This is very well put, I know that I am one of those users that has been very patient in the past but now I am at a point where I just want at least one promise to actually come true here, a few setbacks are one thing, that is something that everyone can live with but when there is delay after delay, setback after setback, well, it wears thin and while I fully understand that Leatherneck is doing everything it can to get the module out, I can't help but feel that the customer relations front could stand for some improvement.

 

It is easy to label people as "naysayers", "whiner's" or "complainers" but in the end, a lot of what said groups have said has actually been constructive and even correct.

[koss19]

As i can see (or better as i cant see) i cant see much naysayers in this tread.

 

The reason for people is becone angry is tat they have enough from the prommises given to them. We all know that the development is a long road to go but if a developer make a 3 times prolong of an estimate relase he has to acept the angry from the customers and naysayers.

[Mike Busutil]

Hmmm, I don't remember seeing a "Promise" being made for anything...

[koss19]

Ah... i expressed myself wrong. Yes there was any promise made but you know what did i mean with my post.