Non-clickable cockpit modules worth it?

[Archer7]

I'm enjoying A-10C a lot and one big charm is how you don't have to remember any commands other than the HOTAS commands. Everything else is clickable in the cockpit.

So if you want to find something you can and if you see something but don’t know what it does all you have to do is click it and see.

 

What about the A-10A?

 

In the modules without clickable cockpits you can still see the switches move? So why couldn’t the developers also make the cockpit switches clickable?

It seems like a very easy thing to code if the buttons already can be clicked using convoluted keyboard commands and to me intuitive, clickable cockpits is the entire charm of DCS. So why didn’t they?

 

Maybe I’m missing something. How does flying the A-10A work?

Do you actually have to remember the keyboard combination for each and every of the hundred switches in the cockpit? How does that not take most of the charm out of the simulation? Or is the A-10A uncomplicated?

 

Currently the only modules I’m interested in are the modern ones with clickable cockpits which are criteria only four modules currently meet which of three are choppers.

 

Are the SU-25T and SU-25 modules different from each other in any technical aspect? Model quality, textures…?

[Flagrum]

The aircrafts with non-clickable cockpits (FC3) have their avionics simplified. So if you use a certain function in such an airplane, in RL (or a fully modelled sim aircraft) you would have to operate several systems and devices. And then these systems and devices interact and influence each other in a specific ways. That is the reason why it is not possible to "just make every switch clickable" - the functionality of the systems is still not there.

[sifhanar]

In my opinion the modules are worth getting. You do not have to remember loads of keys, only a few really. The various modes are switched by the numbers keys. If you want to make things really easy you can use a voice recognition program like "voiceattack" and speak to your aircraft! I don't play the Russian aircraft much, but I can say I find the A-10A & F-15C quite easy to operate. I have all the aircraft so far and I enjoy them all. Just get FC3 and you'll get all of the easy aircraft, but a couple with the advanced flight models. They are all easy to learn, especially if you've taken time to learn the A-10C.

[Sceptre]

All the modules have at least an advanced flight model, with the exception of the Fulcrum and the Flankers.

When you cycle through, for example, bomb intervals in the Su-25A, you can see the switches move, but I think the Grach is the only plane that has this feature. The other planes tell you in the HUD.

IMO the planes are definitley worth getting, because if you buy FC3 now, you get the F-15C in its full PFM glory, and the Flanker will soon have that and you will be able to upgrade for free.

Also the non clickables are excellent if you just want to move mud in a CAS jet without going through a lengthy startup and tutorials. The A-10A don't forget, is much older avionics wise and does not have the ability to drop PGMs such as the Charlie Warthog, so it's really easy to learn to use.

 

From your post you said that your favourite DCS aircraft are the modern ASM/PFM and I agree with you entirely, these are my favourite too. But as an owner of all things with the name "DCS," you should definitely give FC3 a shot. If it's not your cup of tea, it will be a blast when EDGE/Nevada comes out and the Su-27 gets its long awaited PFM :)

[Witchking]

Its worth getting. I still find the A-10A, Su-25, Su-25T to be a lot of fun. Its nice to be able to fly, use just a few key presses, but focus on the flight and mission execution than remember all the button presses. I think thats why i have a lot more fun with these simplified avionics than the detailed A-10C or Ka-50. Among all the DCS modules I personally have only learnt the A-10C (weapon engagement and basic aircraft operation). I still don't know much about starting up and radio procedures etc. The other aircraft, I am relatively still new to them. I flew the Ka-50 a bit, but not too much at all. On the other hand, I have downed a significant amount of hours flying the FC3 aircraft. All I care about is PFM/AFM/AFM+ and avionics, I don't really care.

[Archer7]

The aircrafts with non-clickable cockpits (FC3) have their avionics simplified. So if you use a certain function in such an airplane, in RL (or a fully modelled sim aircraft) you would have to operate several systems and devices. And then these systems and devices interact and influence each other in a specific ways. That is the reason why it is not possible to "just make every switch clickable" - the functionality of the systems is still not there.

 

Aah!

 

All the modules have at least an advanced flight model, with the exception of the Fulcrum and the Flankers.

When you cycle through, for example, bomb intervals in the Su-25A, you can see the switches move, but I think the Grach is the only plane that has this feature. The other planes tell you in the HUD.

IMO the planes are definitley worth getting, because if you buy FC3 now, you get the F-15C in its full PFM glory, and the Flanker will soon have that and you will be able to upgrade for free.

Also the non clickables are excellent if you just want to move mud in a CAS jet without going through a lengthy startup and tutorials. The A-10A don't forget, is much older avionics wise and does not have the ability to drop PGMs such as the Charlie Warthog, so it's really easy to learn to use.

 

From your post you said that your favourite DCS aircraft are the modern ASM/PFM and I agree with you entirely, these are my favourite too. But as an owner of all things with the name "DCS," you should definitely give FC3 a shot. If it's not your cup of tea, it will be a blast when EDGE/Nevada comes out and the Su-27 gets its long awaited PFM :)

 

What's PFM? :huh:

[lanmancz]

What's PFM? :huh:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

 

About the FC3 - I think it's worth it. Even with simplified systems the F15C is still fun to fly :-)

[Cykyrios]

What's PFM? :huh:

PFM stands for Professional Flight Model (you could also say Proper FM :D).

You can have more details here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

 

I'm currently doing the training missions for the Su-25T, as I want to try its SEAD capabilities, and the shortcuts you need are not too difficult to remember, though it is of course much better to be able to click everything.

 

Oh, and as said before, FC3 is worth the money, and it's nice to fly all those aircraft.

[Python]

I have found myself spending more time in FC3 than any of the full modules although I admit I haven't touched the A-10A. They are great if you just fancy a quick flight or something a little more simple. Once you sit in that beautiful F-15 pit you'll soon forget that it is a simplified sim and just have fun with it. It looks great and flies great.... and it's fast! We may even get clicky cockpits for them down the line.

[blkspade]

I said it so many times before. The keyboard is an irrelevant complaint for not trying the FC planes. Anything you are likely to need in a split second, just map it somewhere, anywhere on your stick that seems to be the most logical place to have it. Anyone with a Hotas setup of an X-52 or better should have no problem sorting this out. This goes double for anyone with the Warthog, and having any amount of interest in the F-15C. It has everything you 'need' where it should be, minus the rotary on the throttle, and enough left over buttons/switches to fudge the rest.

[Chief1942]

I would pretty much concur with what others have said. I've been with the A-10A since LOMAC days and it takes awhile to get to know the keystrokes. I usually flew that plane with the "cheat sheet" right in front of me. Don't shortchange your enjoyment of flying different airframes simply due to the lack of clickable cockpits. One thing you will come to appreciate is the actual differences in these aircraft. Make learning a part of the enjoyment. I would readily admit that once you had the opportunity to experience the A-10C or the P-51D it is hard to go back to the more simple models. Sort of like the old adage "Once they've seen Paris, how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm"? Besides. if you acquire FC3 and some of the other offerings, you are supporting DCS and that support will tend to lead to the very things you ultimately want in a flight sim.

[Dun_Aenghus]

I really like having the choice. Sometimes after a hard day at work, I'm not in the mood for something as intense and complicated as the A10C. Better to the the SU25 for a quick and easy spin.

[Stuge]

FC3 is worth getting just because of the whole new world that modern air combat with fighter jets provides.

 

The lack of clickable cockpit is well compensated by the fact that air-to-air combat is an infinitely more dynamic environment than ground attack is.

[Archer7]

Hm, difficult to decide.

I’m not too interested in the uncomplicated MiGs or Sus.

The A-10A is more appealing as comparison to the A-10C and the F-15C as something different and it will soon have ASM. The Huey and Magnificent can wait until I understand how the Black Shark works at all.

The WWII aircraft currently don’t interest me too much either.

 

Next sale I’ll consider the A-10A and F-15C… maybe even the Su-25 since it has AFM+ in which case I may be up to the cost of FC3 so I might as well get them all.

 

Too bad I missed the last flash sale. Anyone knows what the costs were down to?

I’ve signed up to the newsletter and I’m hoping they announce sales through there.

[lanmancz]

I’m not too interested in the uncomplicated MiGs or Sus.

 

The Sus are actually quite fun to fly. Both su25 and su25t have AFM and also the good thing is that you don't have to fiddle around with computers and all that stuff (especially su25) - you just fly them which is a joy.

 

The A-10A is more appealing as comparison to the A-10C and the F-15C as something different and it will soon have ASM.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you ;) You have to understand that "soon" has a rather special meaning around here :lol: Still, the F15C is fun to fly and it's a completely different beast than those air-to-dirt planes :-)

 

Too bad I missed the last flash sale.

 

Don't worry. Sales are going on every 3 months or so. I would get the whole FC3 package if I were you (in fact I did:-)). It's not really expensive anyway (when on sale it's like $25) and I don't think you're going to regret it.

Edited July 2, 2014 by lanmancz

[kontiuka]

I like to play the A-10A from time to time if I don't want to tax my brain too much with the A-10C. It has the AFM so it's still fun to fly. As far as the Huey goes, I love it. Probably the module I play the most.

[Vedexent]

I'm a big fan of the Su-25 as an aircraft - it's a lot of fun if you like the "I'll do it my own damn self" approach. It's kind of like preferring a manual stick shift transmission to an automatic transmission.

 

The non-clickable cockpit is - in my opinion - good enough. But if DCS every publishes a fully clickable DCS World: Su-25SM, I'll buy 3, just as a thank you :D

[dumgrunt]

i reckon FC3 is worth it for the F-15 PFM alone. the added bonus will be the PFM for the Su-27 is coming out sooner rather than later. Su-25A is a hoot as well.

 

FC3 is really just an intermediary for when i get sick of the Hog from time to time; IMHO it is an entirely different game. And once you learn the key strokes for one aircraft, you more or less know them all. The Su-25T is probably the most complicated at the moment in terms of avionics, except for the eagle where you can disable the CAS; the auto pilot only has attitude hold at the moment too. other than that using the fire control systems is very easy, other have similar key bindings to the A-10C like gear, flaps, and slew control.

[lmp]

I never properly learned the A-10C, but I have plenty of hours in the helicopter modules and I'll tell you this... in a combat situation you don't really DO much more in the Ka-50 than in the Su-25. When doing cold starts or following a complex nav plan - then yes, there's plenty of switches to throw in the ASM aircraft - but when you're trying to kill that SAM before it kills you, the differences are minimal. The simplifications in the FC3 aircraft are mostly in the non combat systems and you usually have most of your combat related controls mapped to your joystick anyway.

 

So I guess it's down to what you like doing most. If you'll be killing tanks and airplanes most of the time, or just doing aerobatics and enjoying the FM, the simplifications may bother you a little bit, but I think you'll have a good experience over all. If you want to be super immersed all the time, ramp starting your aircraft with a single key press might ruin it for you.

 

Personally, I enjoy the Su-25 a lot and can't wait for the other Russian aircraft getting PFM. The F-15 is also a ton of fun now.

[Archer7]

The Sus are actually quite fun to fly. Both su25 and su25t have AFM and also the good thing is that you don't have to fiddle around with computers and all that stuff (especially su25) - you just fly them which is a joy.

 

 

 

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you ;) You have to understand that "soon" has a rather special meaning around here :lol: Still, the F15C is fun to fly and it's a completely different beast than those air-to-dirt planes :-)

 

 

 

Don't worry. Sales are going on every 3 months or so. I would get the whole FC3 package if I were you (in fact I did:-)). It's not really expensive anyway (when on sale it's like $25) and I don't think you're going to regret it.

 

Any reason to believe F-15C ASM will be delayed beyond 2014?

Not that I've seen them say it's going to be out this year but that unofficial thread says so and I would assume there's been some mention of ASM being on the way.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Archer7

[Sceptre]

Any reason to believe F-15C ASM will be delayed beyond 2014?

Not that I've seen them say it's going to be out this year but that unofficial thread says so and I would assume there's been some mention of ASM being on the way.

 

ASM = fully clickable cockpit and nowhere has it been said by eagle that this is being made for the F15C. They're doing the F/A-18C at DCS level as our American fast jet which is a much better choice than going air to air only.

[Flagrum]

Any reason to believe F-15C ASM will be delayed beyond 2014?

You gave the answer already by yourself.

Not that I've seen them say it's going to be out this year

In fact, it wasn't mentioned at all by anyone remotely "official" that they would be working on an ASM for the F-15. Yes, it would "make sense", but no, no official word about it, yet.

[Exorcet]

They're doing the F/A-18C at DCS level as our American fast jet which is a much better choice than going air to air only.

You multirole people... lol

 

But Sceptre is right. There is no official F-15 ASM announcement. There was only a passing mention of it as a possibility. At the moment it should be considered off the table as much as it's wanted. At best, the F-15 and Su-27 development will mirror that of missiles. Flight Model upgraded, systems model TBA for some unknown time in the future.

[McBlemmen]

I agree with the OP , if the switches move anyway they may as well be clickable

[Archer7]

Oh, so much for trusting the unofficial thread I suppose :p

I assumed every bit of info there was based on interview statements and such.

 

Which makes me curious: what have they officially said? Do they usually say anything until stuff just pops up on their website like the Dora did (to me, who hadn't heard a word about it before I saw it there)?