DCS WWII: 1944 FAQ Discussion

[Cowboy10uk]

Thanks for taking the time to do this Sith, great FAQ.

 

Quick question. How do we choose our aircraft, I'm assuming we will get a chance before Dora release next month?

 

Cowboy10uk

[cichlidfan]

Thanks for taking the time to do this Sith, great FAQ.

 

Quick question. How do we choose our aircraft, I'm assuming we will get a chance before Dora release next month?

 

Cowboy10uk

 

Backup about 8 posts and start there.

[TaliG]

Last update from Wags was nice. It will also stop some of the complaints happening outside this forum.

[Cowboy10uk]

Backup about 8 posts and start there.

 

Cheers mate, sorry surfing on my phone at RIAT, as it takes ages to load a page I'm just jumping to last posts. :)

Cowboy10uk

[Demon_]

July 2014 Update #2: As such, we are in the process of redesigning the backer’s page to allow you to choose the aircraft YOU wish. You will get a number of aircraft selection slots based on your contribution level as listed in the list below.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=126712

[jermin]

What aircrafts will I get?

 

I pledged $20 and chose Thunderbolt, Kurfurst, Spitfire and Dora in the reward page. Now what aircrafts will I get after the reward restructuring?

[Cykyrios]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=126712

$20-$39

Bronze Backer credit in manuals

One aircraft of choice, beta access, and print-ready PDF manual

Normandy Map

 

So you will get one aircraft of your choice.

[Cnuke]

Edit: sniped xD

[Phantom453]

Hey Sith, noting this comment from Groove in the July update #2:

 

"It will take us some time to re-design the personal backers page, but we are on it."

 

I'm just wondering if there is some way of articulating which aircraft we would like? The reason being that with the Dora release being less than a month away (5 Aug 14) I would like to have it when it is released, but if I can't advise ED which five aircraft I want, how do I get a key for the Dora? Thanks.

 

The point of my post above was to highlight the need for backers who pledged less than $120 to be able to articulate in some way which planes they want as rewards. Without that information, come the 5 Aug 14, ED will not know which backers who pledged < $120 want a Dora or not. If they don't know that they can't issue a key to that backer. (if indeed a particular backer want the Dora).

 

Now Groove has stated that:

 

"It will take us some time to re-design the personal backers page, but we are on it."

 

Fair enough, but of course we all know time is relative, especially in the DCS world. For example only - The Mig 21 and Hawk have been close to release now for months, while the DCS WWII map and F/A 18 are some time away. The statement from Grove above does not sound very "pre 5 Aug 14 ish to me." Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Rest assured though that if non-backers who just buy the Dora off the DCS site on 5 Aug end up getting the Dora well before people who backed the project, then that will be the next huge uproar on this forum. I'm sure we all want to avoid that after all that has transpired over the whole KS and DSC WWII saga.

 

With 5 Aug looming, I'm just prompting ED to consider this before we have the next big DCS WWII kafuffle over the release of the Dora and poor old Sith has a nervous breakdown. :smilewink:

[Bucky]

I don't want to feel bitter...

 

but I kinda do.

 

At the $112 level, it was a big investment for my family, as we don't have much money, but I really wanted this to succeed, so we muscled up and purchased at a level where I'd get access to all the aircraft in game, plus shipping for the other crap.

 

To now be told I'll only get 5 aircraft, and I can't pitch in the extra 8 bucks to get me over the new level, seems kinda rough to me. I know kickstarter is a gamble and all that stuff, but ED have decided to back it, and giving me my 6th plane doesn't cost them anymore than them giving me 5, so I'm a bit confused why the digital rewards aren't being kept the same.

 

Granted I didn't read the 35 pages of each thread to see if there were others in the same boat, there was too much 'we love you ED' crap to wade through, so perhaps I missed any comment on this exact situation, if so, I apologise for the redundancy of my thread.

 

Cheers,

Sean

[Buckeye]

 

so I'm a bit confused why the digital rewards aren't being kept the same.

 

Because ED didn't offer you the rewards you are referencing, RRG did. You backed RRG's Kickstarter, not ED's. RRG then jumped shipped from said project and delivered nothing on what they promised you. ED is now stepping in and giving you something; be happy with that, even if it is one less plane. 5 planes for $112 dollars is a steal.

 

Granted I didn't read the 35 pages of each thread to see if there were others in the same boat, there was too much 'we love you ED' crap to wade through

 

I must have missed those threads, all the ones I read made it seem like Wags and ED were lighting kittens on fire.

[Kuky]

be happy with that, even if it is one less plane. 5 planes for $112 dollars is a steal

 

yes, people loose perspective because if you think about it, each plane will have great 3D model, cockpit, 6DoF, PFM and ASM, it's the best you could hope for for a flight sim of that high fidelity, and to make those aircraft is pretty hard and long work, so really $20 per plane is not much at all... well I guess it is for people that don't have much money, but if you look at how much general games cost (I think play station games are $80-90 each and their fidelity is not nothing compared to DCS PFM/ASM modules) $20 is not much... I think

[Bucky]

Because ED didn't offer you the rewards you are referencing, RRG did. You backed RRG's Kickstarter, not ED's. RRG then jumped shipped from said project and delivered nothing on what they promised you. ED is now stepping in and giving you something; be happy with that, even if it is one less plane. 5 planes for $112 dollars is a steal.

 

To be fair, I don't believe ED were completely extant from the original KS. This project was always going to be called "DCS: WWII". Whilst I realise ED are doing good by the people to come up with something, and I'm happy to take the hit on the physical rewards to help ensure they can make this thing viable, I still believe they should honour the original digital rewards scheme.

 

I must have missed those threads, all the ones I read made it seem like Wags and ED were lighting kittens on fire.

 

Yeah, you must have missed them. You also must have skipped over the first few responses to get to your flaming kittens. The first five or so in the original july update are all "Awesome, thanks!" type posts, and that was just the briefest of looks to reply to this post.

[Kuky]

But hey, ED also give the bonus for your purchases, so if you spend $100 on modules you get some bonus also, you can use that to get another module at bit cheaper price, I know its not much but its something at least, so you do get little more out then what you pay.

 

EDIT: please disregard this comment, I completely forgot bonus system only applies for modules purchased though ED online shop

Edited July 13, 2014 by Kuky

[Bucky]

yes, people loose perspective because if you think about it, each plane will have great 3D model, cockpit, 6DoF, PFM and ASM, it's the best you could hope for for a flight sim of that high fidelity, and to make those aircraft is pretty hard and long work, so really $20 per plane is not much at all... well I guess it is for people that don't have much money, but if you look at how much general games cost (I think play station games are $80-90 each and their fidelity is not nothing compared to DCS PFM/ASM modules) $20 is not much... I think

 

While that's all well and good, I don't pay for computer games very often cause I can't afford them currently. I still think that if the 100 dollar reward level is X, then why not give everyone X + $12 in DCS credit to buy the plane they've already committed to. In this situation I now have to pay $132 for 6 airframes. That's more than 20 dollars each.

 

I apologise for this seeming to be picking peanuts out of poo, but as mentioned in the original post it just makes me feel a bit bitter.

 

But hey, ED also give the bonus for your purchases, so if you spend $100 on modules you get some bonus also, you can use that to get another module at bit cheaper price, I know its not much but its something at least, so you do get little more out then what you pay.

 

What bonus?

[Kuky]

Ah sorry about me mentioning the Bonus, my bad... Bonus doesn't apply for KS pre-order but only for modules purchased in ED online shop... sorry again for confusion

[Wolf Rider]

Bucky, the Kickstater isn't a shop, it is startup which is being bought into. The startup may succeed, and it may not...

Similarly, a gold mine start up could be bought into (on the promise that if it hits paydirt, you get a percentage of the booty).

Now, the gold might be found, then again, it might not.. if it doesn't, you lose the investment, they abandon the mine - however someone else comes along, who takes a chance with the mine and digs a little deeper, and whereas before, you lost the lot, the new owner hits paydirt and chooses to still offer a part of what the previous deal was - they don't have to but they do.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Wolf Rider

[wombat778]

Because ED didn't offer you the rewards you are referencing, RRG did. You backed RRG's Kickstarter, not ED's. RRG then jumped shipped from said project and delivered nothing on what they promised you. ED is now stepping in and giving you something; be happy with that, even if it is one less plane.

 

I'm really not sure I agree with this. The Kickstarter describes the project as a "joint venture between RRG Studios and Eagle Dynamics" and the press release describes Wags as one of the people "excited to announce an upcoming Kickstarter campaign" for DCS WW2. It even includes a quote from him ("'We want to open a new page in WWII combat simulations,' said Matt Wagner of Eagle Dynamics"). Now, maybe there is a remote possibility that was all done without ED's permission. But, in that case, ED had a responsibility make the public aware that they were not affiliated with RRD and did not endorse the project in any way. I would have also expected them to send RRD a cease & desist. As far as I can tell, however, none of that happened. Instead, direct links to the Kickstarter campaign were included on the DCS website, and the backer page and press release were hosted on the DCS website.

 

It seems to me that ED endorsed this project by lending its name and support to it. Before they did that, I believe they had an obligation to conduct due diligence to make sure that the business model was solid and that customers were going to get what they were promised. If ED didn't know where the funding was coming from or believed it unsupportable, they should have refused to let their name be associated with it. Endorsements are a powerful thing for customers, because it gives them some level of assurance that the product/business is sound and that the endorsing company will step up to the plate if needed. For me personally, I am quite sure I would not have backed the project had I not found it on ED's website and otherwise felt like it was a joint venture with ED.

 

I am not saying that ED is inherently in the wrong here for restructuring the project under the circumstances...things happen and I think we mostly all understand and can sympathize with that. However, I do not view ED as a white knight saving this project. ED messed up by supporting something they should never have supported. We all make mistakes, but that does mean they now they have an obligation to right the situation as best they can.

[Bucky]

lol. Thanks for the mine analogy Wolf, that was a wild ride that I enjoyed from start to finish :)

 

Whilst I appreciate the KS is a gamble and all of that (as mentioned previously in my post), ED were always going to be involved to some degree, as they'd put their name to it when they agreed to make this project part of the DCS franchise. Neither ED (nor any of their customers) want to see a DCS labelled project tanking; that doesn't look good for anyone. So they pull Ilya's whacky offering from the fire, and rebuild it to a more manageable level.

 

They also say 'hey we can't possibly make this thing viable with the current scheme, so we have to change the rewards offered'. I get that completely. My point is that now there are customers such as myself, who whilst completely stoked that ED have picked up the shattered remnants of this train wreck and put it back on the rails, still feel somewhat bitter as I don't see it costing ED any more to agree to the original digital rewards. They're basically betting on the fact that those of us that were stung, will go ahead and buy the extra plane or two, which I don't think I'd be willing to do at this stage.

[Phantom453]

I backed exactly the same amount as you Bucky. In summary:

• I'm damn disappointed the KS failed, Both from a reward perspective and delivery timeline. Honestly though, even from the start, the reward we were getting for the monetary level we backed seemed way too generous/ unrealistic to me, but then again I'm not a software developer with +10 years experience.
  
• I feel cheated by Ilya, due both to his almost total failure to deliver on any of his KS promises, but more so due to his inability to man-up and explain to his backers what went wrong and try to make amends. To my mind, if this guy ever gets a gig again as a software developer in this life or the next - it will be way too soon.
  
• I'm a little disappointed we have been kept in the dark to some degree by ED and certainly by Ilya as to what went wrong. That is ED's choice, but bad news isn't like red wine - it doesn't get better with age. IMHO ED could have avoided much of the flak they have received with a little more transparency on this whole issue. If I ran ED I'd have dragged Ilya to a keyboard to type an explanation to the KS backers - before ED stepped in (noting that Ilya is a past ED Partner and apparently current employee working on DCS WWII manuals (go figure) that option should still happen - IMHO).
  
• I am very happy ED have stepped in to rescue this project. In general I do think ED try to look after the their customers. sure there have been a few cock-ups by ED, but they do seem to try to put things right when these things happen. We are all human after all.
  
• After the dust has settled, I'm still happy to be getting my five DCS level aircraft and a EDGE level WWII map with period content (all new stuff). Anyone who doesn't think this is still a great deal in the really world is dreaming!! Even better - DCS WWII will remain part of DCSW.
  
• People have a right to be angry and should have a right to voice their opinion. However all of this should be conducted in a respectful manner, acknowledging other people my not have the same opinion as you. Some of the post of late have bee way out of line in terms of tone and/ or personal attack. Ultimately this detracts from the point the poster is trying to make anyway.
  

Overall I feel it just time to move on now. The new DCS WWII rewards are what they are now, for good or bad (pretty good IMHO). Moreover, We have plenty to look forward to in the very near future with the imminent release of the Sabre, Mig 21, Hawk, Dora and of course EDGE. Once these roll out I'm sure the whole DCS WWII kafuffle will fade to a bad memory. So lets move on now I say.

 

One a last note to this post I would remind you all that there is one universal rule here: "Either ED remains financially viable or this all stops." I'm sure none of us want to see the wrong end of that statement.

[Kuky]

Bucky, check your PM

[Bucky]

• People have a right to be angry and should have a right to voice their opinion. However all of this should be conducted in a respectful manner, acknowledging other people my not have the same opinion as you. Some of the post of late have bee way out of line in terms of tone and/ or personal attack. Ultimately this detracts from the point the poster is trying to make anyway.
  

 

Hoping this isn't directed at me bud, I've tried to remain completely non-hostile during this explanation of my thoughts on the situation, and would hate to think I was being taken as a rager, I just wanted to voice my opinion.

 

I'm not sure if your post was just a general outline of some thoughts of yours, or they were directed at the current discussion. I understand you're happy and think you're still getting a great deal, and I'm truly happy that you're satisfied broheim. I'm not so satisfied, as I outlined.

 

edit: Anyway, it appears to be true that giving voice to thoughts helps relieve one of their burden, as I'm now over this topic, and will probably end up going ahead and buying that 6th plane at some point. Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

Edited July 13, 2014 by Bucky

[jermin]

I really can't figure this out. If I had known I would only be able to get one aircraft in the end, I would have never pledged.

 

Since the Ilya started the kickstarter project under a agreement with ED, it can be concluded that ED deemed the project as feasible. Otherwise they wouldn't have let Ilya start the project in the first place. Now after the project ended up unfruitful, they are telling us that the raised fund is not enough?

 

I pledged the project knowing that Ilya was not a person worth trusting because I believed ED will, as usual, fulfill its promise. But the final solution is very very disappointing. Besides the delayed delivery, the rewards are also dramatically shrunk. I don't think I'll invest any more on your products from now on.

[Flagrum]

I really can't figure this out. If I had known I would only be able to get one aircraft in the end, I would have never pledged.

 

Since the Ilya started the kickstarter project under a agreement with ED, it can be concluded that ED deemed the project as feasible. Otherwise they wouldn't have let Ilya start the project in the first place. Now after the project ended up unfruitful, they are telling us that the raised fund is not enough?

 

I pledged the project knowing that Ilya was not a person worth trusting because I believed ED will, as usual, fulfill its promise. But the final solution is very very disappointing. Besides the delayed delivery, the rewards are also dramatically shrunk. I don't think I'll invest any more on your products from now on.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=126824

[Phantom453]

Hoping this isn't directed at me bud, I've tried to remain completely non-hostile during this explanation of my thoughts on the situation, and would hate to think I was being taken as a rager, I just wanted to voice my opinion.

 

I'm not sure if your post was just a general outline of some thoughts of yours, or they were directed at the current discussion. I understand you're happy and think you're still getting a great deal, and I'm truly happy that you're satisfied broheim. I'm not so satisfied, as I outlined.

 

edit: Anyway, it appears to be true that giving voice to thoughts helps relieve one of their burden, as I'm now over this topic, and will probably end up going ahead and buying that 6th plane at some point. Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

 

No, not directed at you at all Bucky, other than I was starting from the same point as you, having invested $112. Just my general thoughts on the subject now as it stands. Sorry if you thought I was singling you out in any way. I was not.